Using a rosary

[Phil 1:21]

This is a good example of what happens when one seeks to follow the word of man versus the word of God.

 

[Mountainmike]

This is a good example of what happens when one seeks to follow the word of man versus the word of God.

But then we know from scripture:

Christ is heralded as a davidic king, and he does all he can to reinforce that - so his followers would look for meaning in his actions in the davidic history. reg iding on a donkey as Solomon had done.

We know from the OT in Kings the mother of a davidic king has honorary title queen ( a number of mothers are named ), and given a throne, and the king says "he will do whatever she asks". (which is also why we call her queen incidentally)

We know from Cana that Jesus does as she asks with water to wine, so acts on intercession - but chides her saying "not yet" what have you to do with me now , my time has not yet come. His time has now come.

So we do indeed believe in sola Dei Verbum.

The problem as you say is man made - that is the provably "man made tradition" that is sola scriptura - nowhere to be found before reformationists - which has lost the meaning to scripture which was passed by tradition. The early fathers knew. And they believed in intercession. So why dont you?

 

[Phil 1:21]

But then we know from scripture:

Christ is heralded as a davidic king, and he does all he can to reinforce that riding on a donkey as Solomon had done.

We know from the OT in one Kings the mother of a davidic king with honorary title queen, and given a throne, and the king says he will do whatever she ask. (which is also why we call her queen incidentally)

We know from Cana that Jesus does as she asks with water to wine, but chides her saying "not yet" what have you to do with me now , my time has not yet come. His time has now come.

So we do indeed believe in sola Dei Verbum. The problem is the "man made tradition" that is sola scriptura which has lost the meaning to scripture. The early fathers knew. And they believed in intercession. So why dont you?

Why do I pray to the Creator instead of the creation? Because that's what God commanded.

 

[Mountainmike]

Why do I pray to the Creator instead of the creation? Because that's what God commanded.

So do we.
Now read my post - and answer the question I asked instead.
The question is not why we believe in intercession, but why did a fragment of christianity stop believing in it at the time of the reformation?
Do you ask others to pray for you? Most of us do....and if you do, you broke your own rule seemingly!

 

[GodsGrace101]

So do we.
Now read my post - and answer the question I asked instead.
The question is not why we believe in intercession, but why did a fragment of christianity stop believing in it at the time of the reformation?
Do you ask others to pray for you? Most of us do....and if you do, you broke your own rule seemingly!

OK.
But how could we possibly know if the "dead" hear us?
For instance, a catholic person may pray to a saint and the prayer is answered. For instance, a "dead" person has to have performed 2 or 3 miracles (can't remember) for them to be declared a saint by the CC.
How do we know that the saint caused the answer to prayer (a miracle) or God heard and answered?

I just don't think dead persons that have gone to the other side can hear us.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So do we.
Now read my post - and answer the question I asked instead.
The question is not why we believe in intercession, but why did a fragment of christianity stop believing in it at the time of the reformation?
Do you ask others to pray for you? Most of us do....and if you do, you broke your own rule seemingly!

LOL
Because Protestantism took out the books that spoke about speaking to the dead or praying for the dead.

 

[Mountainmike]

OK.
But how could we possibly know if the "dead" hear us?
For instance, a catholic person may pray to a saint and the prayer is answered. For instance, a "dead" person has to have performed 2 or 3 miracles (can't remember) for them to be declared a saint by the CC.
How do we know that the saint caused the answer to prayer (a miracle) or God heard and answered?

I just don't think dead persons that have gone to the other side can hear us.

A lot could be said but take...
It is written.
" we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" Who are they?
"all of heaven rejoices at a sinner that repents" How do they know?
"prayers of the saints are there at the altar of God" So clearly heaven hears the saints.
And we know from the transfiguration - that Moses and Elijah are there in conversation , so clearly hear!

I can only repeat.. The early fathers believed it, those who wrote the creed and decided the new testament. It would be odd if they did not know what ithe faith meant! And why is it people almost 2000 years more distant from the events, think they know better than those in the first couple of centuries?

And on a personal note, I am not obliged to believe it, but the apparitions are not in my view disputable. Too much evidence.

 

[GodsGrace101]

A lot could be said but take...
It is written.
" we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" Who are they?
"all of heaven rejoices at a sinner that repents" How do they know?
"prayers of the saints are there at the altar of God" So clearly heaven hears the saints.
And we know from the transfiguration - that Moses and Elijah are there in conversation , so clearly hear!

I can only repeat.. The early fathers believed it, those who wrote the creed and decided the new testament. It would be odd if they did not know what ithe faith meant! And why is it people almost 2000 years more distant from the events, think they know better than those in the first couple of centuries?

And on a personal note, I am not obliged to believe it, but the apparitions are not in my view disputable. Too much evidence.

Good verses. I DO know about the Communion of Saints.
I also like the ECF and feel they knew more than we could.

Like eternal security, for instance. It wasn't even heard of till 1,500 AD.

I find good and bad in the CC and also in the Protestant church. I just hope God is not in that box we all want to put Him in -- whatever that box may be.

 

[proverbs3]

All righteous Christians are Saints, as spoken by Apostle Paul.

i see but i don't think it's a very good idea to repeat a prayer except for our father which the only prayer Jesus Christ said we should pray after we pray

and Jesus Christ already teach us the proper way of praying why does the catholic teach the opposite Jesus Christ clearly said do not use vain repetitions

 

[All4Christ]

i see but i don't think it's a very good idea to repeat a prayer except for our father which the only prayer Jesus Christ said we should pray after we pray

and Jesus Christ already teach us the proper way of praying why does the catholic teach the opposite Jesus Christ clearly said do not use vain repetitions

He said to not use vain repetitions. You seem to assume that all other prayers that have some repitition are some in vain. Scripture doesn’t say that. Personally, I don’t say the rosary, but I certainly pray some prayers that aren’t spontaneous. I do both. The book of Psalms is one of my favorite prayer books. Jesus prayed some prayers from Psalms. Was he wrong for doing that? The heathens which Jesus referenced “babbled” empty phrases, thinking that having more words in prayer would be more powerful. That’s the core part of the verse. Don’t just babble meaningless words with the thought that it will make it more powerful. The prayer we pray most in my tradition is “Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner”, while going though knots on a prayer rope. It allows us to pray deeply. It isn’t saying it just to say it. That would be vain repetition - not praying it with the heart. Singing a hymn without meaning it or a worship song without praying it also is vain repetition. Even just spontaneous words of prayer without meaning it or contemplating on it fits the meaning of the babbling Jesus referenced (see the Greek).

 

[OSAS 101]

It's the Mother of God part that I don't like.
And the repetition.
And the confession;
"Say 10 Hail Mary's, 3 Our Father's, and 1 Act of Contrition."
I use to feel like a big shot as a kid if I was worthy of getting an Act of Contrition.
I think they gave them out just to get us to remember how to recite it.

 

[Barney2.0]

i see but i don't think it's a very good idea to repeat a prayer except for our father which the only prayer Jesus Christ said we should pray after we pray

and Jesus Christ already teach us the proper way of praying why does the catholic teach the opposite Jesus Christ clearly said do not use vain repetitions

Vain repetitions are when you don’t really mean a prayer. Any prayer or statements exclaimed by God or righteous men and women are to be repeated by us.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Barney2.0]

Where is Jesus Christ now? seated on the right hand of the Father
So, why would you pray any type of a prayer to someone that...?
is not even seated yet
or seated further away - as in holy angels -the elect angels
the 24 elders
dead saints - that wait to be raised as to their bodies

Nowhere in the Bible, does it show righteous people praying to the dead for help.
We are actually warned not to talk to the dead -or try to.

"Hail" is said a lot of times in the Bible -that does not make something be a prayer
There is no Mary type of prayer in the Bible.
She would be blessed among women, but not supposed to be prayed to by women/men.

Hail Mary is said by Gabriel and Elizabeth in the Bible. Revelation shows the Saints as being alive in heaven.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Truth, but this only counts for those who honor Yahweh and His Word.

Nowhere in the Bible, does it show righteous people praying to the dead for help.
We are actually warned not to talk to the dead -or try to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not currently.

Revelation shows the Saints as being alive in heaven.