Using a rosary

[pepey05]

I am very new to the forum,but find it interesting the majority of us worship the same God and yet we have a difference of opinion

 

[Albion]

He was a Catholic until his dying day, don't you know?

Anyway, I hope we have answered your questions about the rosary, whichever way you finally choose to use it and in whatever church you prefer.

 

[All4Christ]

That's not the part that is in question.

It is this:

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Ok. What I wrote is the Orthodox way to say the Hail Mary. I am not very familiar with the wording of the prayers in the rosary - we use the Jesus prayer more often. That said, the Hail Mary is used in our daily prayers - in the version I posted above (or similar translation).

(That said, I’m going off topic ...apologies to the OP)

 

[proverbs3]

to ts and other people
may i ask something from what i know if it's wrong please correct me

isn't it no one ascended to heaven yet except for Christ why would people pray to a dead person who has no feelings? nor memories?
and

the Hail Mary prayer is in the Bible spoken by God through the Angel Gabriel and by Elizabeth

but where exactly?
based on my quick research
i actually just search from old kjv not on new kjv or other bibles

Luk 1:26-28 KJV
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luk 1:42 KJV
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luk 1:43 KJV
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[proverbs3]

and why repeat it like a vain repetition prayer and it's not really a prayer at all yeah it was said by God thru an angel but the fact that she's dead and can never come nor know where she is nor what she was doing and the fact people are calling her out

Luk 1:26-28 KJV
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luk 1:42 KJV
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luk 1:43 KJV
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[Barney2.0]

and why repeat it like a vain repetition prayer and it's not really a prayer at all yeah it was said by God thru an angel but the fact that she's dead and can never come nor know where she is nor what she was doing and the fact people are calling her out

We are to repeat the words of God, who says Mary is dead, does she not live in the kingdom of God?

 

[MariaJLM]

True, though the second part is quite Biblical:

Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos
Mary full of grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed are you among women,
and blessed is the fruit of your womb, for you gave birth to the Savior of our souls.

The bolded parts certainly have scriptural backing, albeit not word for word.

Most people don't realize it, but it's actually incredible just how much of our services and prayers are derived entirely from scripture (And we get accused of not reading the Scriptures...) In fact, the first time I ever attended a Divine Liturgy it was one of the main things I noticed. I found it quite profound since it seemed to fit together perfectly. That was one of the things that made me certain that I had found God's church .

 

[proverbs3]

We are to repeat the words of God, who says Mary is dead, does she not live in the kingdom of God?

she's currently dead it means she has no memories nor any feelings so it is vain if you guys pray hail mary you can't call her out she's not listening but your enemy is and is decieving you

kingdom of God? you mean heaven? if it's heaven she's not heaven yet
Jesus Christ said in John 3:12-13
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

and clearly Jesus Christ said not to repeat the prayers in vain why would us creatures know the truth more than the son of God?

 

[Barney2.0]

she's currently dead it means she has no memories nor any feelings so it is vain if you guys pray hail mary you can't call her out she's not listening but your enemy is and is decieving you

kingdom of God? you mean heaven? if it's heaven she's not heaven yet
Jesus Christ said in John 3:12-13
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

and clearly Jesus Christ said not to repeat the prayers in vain why would us creatures know the truth more than the son of God?

Believers are alive with God, unless we’re willing to deny what Jesus said. Here’s an answer to the verse you quoted:

https://www.catholic.com/node/14191

 

[Dave G.]

Thank you all for your replies. Most informative. A bit about my background. I am 41 years old. Christened under the CofE faith. Always followed it. Taught to pray from a very early age. I like to pray alone with my Bible,sometimes a Crucifix or a cross. Sometimes just my hands crossed. Is prayer not a personal thing? Surely by holding something as beautiful as the rosary it should not matter. My faith is very strong and I love God with all my heart. As for incense I would only use Christian in the correct manner such as monks own made.
Psalm 23 is my guide.
Thank you again. God bless

God Bless You.

 

[pepey05]

He was a Catholic until his dying day, don't you know?

He set up the CofE so he could get divorced and then dissolute the monasteries. Fascinating person to read about.

I feel 50:50 about the rosary. Like I said might just hold it when praying.

 

[mark kennedy]

I always thought the rosary was a remeberance of the Gospel. The announcement to Mary, her meeting with Elizibeth...etc. I never learned it but always thought it interesting.

 

[Holoman]

The rosary is about much more than just repeating the words. It is supposed to be a meditation on different subjects. Saying the hail Mary repeatedly is not the central point, but you think about jesus sacrifice and other meditations. You can find the meditation themes online in various places.

 

[proverbs3]

Believers are alive with God, unless we’re willing to deny what Jesus said. Here’s an answer to the verse you quoted:

https://www.catholic.com/node/14191

Isaiah 40:8 (KJV)
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

I Cor. 15:22-23:kjv
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

this was pointed at the omega and also pointed here ↓

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

whoever died in the name of adam are not saved but God

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

and there came in Jesus Christ we are saved through him no name can ever saved us only his

31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?

34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

and

9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.

10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

1 Samuel 28
1 And it came to pass in those days, that the Philistines gathered their armies together for warfare, to fight with Israel. And Achish said unto David, Know thou assuredly, that thou shalt go out with me to battle, thou and thy men.

2 And David said to Achish, Surely thou shalt know what thy servant can do. And Achish said to David, Therefore will I make thee keeper of mine head for ever.

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.

4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.

5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.

6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me himup, whom I shall name unto thee.

9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. note

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. note

16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: note note

18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrowshalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night. note

21 And the woman came unto Saul, and saw that he was sore troubled, and said unto him, Behold, thine handmaid hath obeyed thy voice, and I have put my life in my hand, and have hearkened unto thy words which thou spakest unto me.

22 Now therefore, I pray thee, hearken thou also unto the voice of thine handmaid, and let me set a morsel of bread before thee; and eat, that thou mayest have strength, when thou goest on thy way.

23 But he refused, and said, I will not eat. But his servants, together with the woman, compelled him; and he hearkened unto their voice. So he arose from the earth, and sat upon the bed.

24 And the woman had a fat calf in the house; and she hasted, and killed it, and took flour, and kneaded it, and did bake unleavened bread thereof:

25 And she brought it before Saul, and before his servants; and they did eat. Then they rose up, and went away that night.

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15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

and God is with us always whatever we do we can never hide he knows everything about us he knows what we are thinking what we are about to say before we know it just saying this because of samuel the lord left saul he said no and never

31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I amthe LORD your God.

btw thanks ts because of this i've learn a lot i've researched for quite a long time lol

 

[Barney2.0]

Isaiah 40:8 (KJV)
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

this was pointed at the omega and also pointed here ↓

whoever died in the name of adam are not saved but God

and there came in Jesus Christ we are saved through him no name can ever saved us only his


and



and God is with us always whatever we do we can never hide he knows everything about us he knows what we are thinking what we are about to say before we know it just saying this because of samuel the lord left saul he said no and never



btw thanks ts because of this i've learn a lot i've researched for quite a long time lol

Jesus is the only way to God, we don’t pray to Saints for our salvation, no one is claiming Saints are resurrected from the grave. We don’t die in the name of Saints, we don’t worship in their name. in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers.

 

[proverbs3]

Jesus is the only way to God, we don’t pray to Saints for our salvation, no one is claiming Saint are resurrected from the Grave. We don’t die in the name of Saints, we don’t worship in their name. in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers.

virgin mary where in the word of God was mary became a saint?

 

[Barney2.0]

virgin mary where in the word of God was mary became a saint?

All righteous Christians are Saints, as spoken by Apostle Paul.

 

[Mountainmike]

In addition to Roman Catholics, there are some Protestants, mainly Anglicans and Lutherans, who also use the rosary. The rosary is a devotion to Mary, however, so this presents some doctrinal implications.

To address that issue, many if not most of these Christians amend the appointed prayers somewhat, most often by omitting the second half of the Hail Mary (which was not original with the rosary anyway, but was added by a modern Pope).

Incidentally both Anglicans and Lutherans have their own versions of the historic rosary, which might interest you.

Meanwhile in the world of real history: many of the early church fathers are vociferous on the intercession of mary and petition for her help. For sure they do not use exactly the same words as the ave maria - but asking Mary to intercede, IS asking Mary to pray for us. Check any...ephraim, chrysostiom, anasthasius -augustine. You name them...they did it. Those are ones involved in (for example) ratification of the canon that is the new testament, defeat of arianism, creed etc.

So the fact that the exact form of the ave maria is medieaval, does not mean the spirit of it originated there, it is early christianity..

What was added by a later poper (JPII) to be precise was the luminous mysteries. The fourth set of mysteries, reminding us of the baptism of Christ, miracle at Cana, coming of the Kingdom, the transfiguration and the foundation of the eucharist. All biblical stuff.

And finally the petition to Jesus " forgive our sins, especially those in most need of your mercy" was a recent addition at Fatima.

Used as a thoughtless repetition ( too may do it rapidfire )it is useless in my view. But as a mediation on the events it is priceless!

 

[Mountainmike]

But then if it was good enough for the early fathers
Take Chrysostom
"Plead earnestly for us that through you we may obtain mercy on the day of judgment and attain the good things reserved for those who love God,"

Take Augustine
"Receive our gratitude and obtain by your prayers the forgiveness of our sins"

Take Francis
"pray for us to your most holy Son, our Lord and Master."

So @Albion you are wrong that the second part of ave maria is in concept a late invention, or inserted by a late pope - it is rewording what had been said for the millenium previously.

So the question is not why we believe it, the question is why do you not?
And why do you always misrepresent catholicism?

To the OP - as I have demonstrated above you will be in good company with the early church fathers in your petitions - the ones who also ratified the new testament - although the form of words has changed over the years, you see the meaning of them has always been used since early times for the church.

That's not the part that is in question.

It is this:

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[All4Christ]

But then if it was good enough for the early fathers
Take Chrysostom
"Plead earnestly for us that through you we may obtain mercy on the day of judgment and attain the good things reserved for those who love God,"

Take Augustine
"Receive our gratitude and obtain by your prayers the forgiveness of our sins"

Take Francis
"pray for us to your most holy Son, our Lord and Master."

So @Albion you are wrong that the second part of ave maria is in concept a late invention, or inserted by a late pope - it is rewording what had been said for the millenium previously.

So the question is not why we believe it, the question is why do you not?
And why do you always misrepresent catholicism?

To the OP - as I have demonstrated above you will be in good company with the early church fathers in your petitions - the ones who also ratified the new testament - although the form of words has changed over the years, you see the meaning of them has always been used since early times for the church.

The exact words were an addition as well as the extra mysteries.

You are right that we (back when we were one) all asked for her intercession back to the time of the early Church Fathers. Sub Tuum is a good example.

It is true, however, that the last sentence (Holy Mother Mary pray for us sinners...) was added much later than the original version. Look at the writings from St Thomas Acquinas on the Hail Mary. It was very similar to the Byzantine version. The Luminous mysteries are even more recent.