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I'd suspect it's because he doesn't really know what he's talking about.Chalnoth said:
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I'd suspect it's because he doesn't really know what he's talking about.Chalnoth said:Why are you asking others to explain your beliefs?
Brass is copper and zinc; bronze is copper and tin.
.And you are absolutely sure that distinction was made in 1611 too? Or in 1500 BC for that matter?
Genesis 4:22 - 1389 Wycliffe Version said:And Sella gendride Tubalcayn, that was an hamerbetere, and smyyt on alle werkis of bras and of yrun; forsothe the sistir of Tubalcayn was Neoma.
Genesis 4:22 - 1560 Geneva Bible said:And Zillah also bare Tubal-Kain, who wrought cunningly every craft of braffe and of yron: and the fifter of Tubal-Kain [was] Naamah.
Genesis 4:22 - 1568 Bishops' Bible said:And Sella also bare Thubalcain, which wrought cunnyngly euery craft of brasse and of iron, the sister of Thubalcain was Noema.
Genesis 4:22 - original 1611 King James Version said:And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-Cain, an instructer of euery artificer in brasse and iron: and the sister of Tubla-Cain was Naamah.
Lots of bible quotes with the word brass
But this is getting way off topic.Britannica Concise said:Brass
Alloy of copper and zinc, important for its hardness and workability. Brass was first used c. 1200 BC in the Near East, then extensively in China after 220 BC, and soon thereafter by the Romans. In ancient documents, including the Bible, the term brass is often used to denote bronze (copper/tin alloy). <snip the rest>
Not that this really matters to anything, but you didn't answer my question: Are you sure there was a distinction between the terms brass and bronze before modern times?
Genesis 4:22 said:And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
So I'll answer it myself: No there wasn't.
Don't know --- I wasn't there --- but I'm sure there was --- maybe not by name, but by observation.
If you lived back then, and someone brought you a copper/zinc alloy, and someone else brought you a copper/tin alloy, do you think you would know the difference? Especially if you were Tubalcain, an artificer in brass?
Watch relying on that Britannica Concise, it might lead you astray.
If you go back and read my original comment, you'll see that I was actually agreeing with you. Most bibles do use 'bronze', instead of 'brass'; and I cringe when they do it.
A double negative makes for a positive, no?The one that says a day is 1000 years
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Brass is still brass and bronze is still bronze. There are ancient tin and copper mines in Cornwall England very close to where the people lived who translated the Bible into English. Those mines were active for almost 4,000 years. So they would have known the difference to translate the Bible the way they did. I am directly related to one of those translators. He was the first one that the queen had burned at the stake.But why? Surely you must agree that the English language has changed in the 400 years since your beloved KJV was authored.
Brass is still brass and bronze is still bronze. There are ancient tin and copper mines in Cornwall England very close to where the people lived who translated the Bible into English. Those mines were active for almost 4,000 years. So they would have known the difference to translate the Bible the way they did. I am directly related to one of those translators. He was the first one that the queen had burned at the stake.
Which at the time of Tubalcain was called neither brass nor bronze, but something else entirely.
And you do agree that there might not have been a distinction in name, so what are we arguing about?
Wikipedia said:The malleability and acoustic properties of brass have made it the metal of choice for brass musical instruments...
Wikipedia said:By varying the proportions of copper and zinc, the properties of the brass can be changed, allowing hard and soft brasses. The relatively low melting point (900–940 °C depending on composition) of brass and its flow characteristics make it a relatively easy material to cast.
Well, that information is available in many other sources, I just picked one freely available on the web.
But why? Surely you must agree that the English language has changed in the 400 years since your beloved KJV was authored.
The one that says a day is 1000 years
But this whole discussion is silly - it doesn't really mean anything except that AV1611VET doesn't like the word bronze for some reason.
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