Us and now

HannahBanana

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Are you really voting for Obama? Doesn't he have a teacher that totally hates white people, that he would not denounce? And his wife is anti-american?

I know Miss Cliton is running on the other side, but Obama really? Can't say i will be voting..

Hope i'm wrong and ypu've done more homework then me on the matter.

God Bless.
Clinton isn't running on the other side. McCain is. And Obama has a preacher who made some anti-American remarks, not a teacher. Have you been following politics at all in the past year?

Also, just because someone makes an anti-American remark doesn't mean that that person is consistently anti-America. It just means that that person is, like all citizens of this country should be, aware of what could be improved in this country. So with that said, what's so bad about Obama's preacher and his wife making an anti-American remark?
 
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ExaltTheLord

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"So with that said, what's so bad about Obama's preacher and his wife making an anti-American remark?So with that said, what's so bad about Obama's preacher and his wife making an anti-American remark?"

Everthing, if someone says while under the spotlight of the American public "This is the first time i've been proud of my country." That just shows their true spots, i really can't debate politics, but i know theres something missing with Obama, we want change. But i know he's not the right one to give it to us.

This upcoming election will not go as expected.

What ever does happen, may we have God centered in our lives.
 
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HannahBanana

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"So with that said, what's so bad about Obama's preacher and his wife making an anti-American remark?So with that said, what's so bad about Obama's preacher and his wife making an anti-American remark?"

Everthing, if someone says while under the spotlight of the American public "This is the first time i've been proud of my country." That just shows their true spots, i really can't debate politics, but i know theres something missing with Obama, we want change. But i know he's not the right one to give it to us.

This upcoming election will not go as expected.

What ever does happen, may we have God centered in our lives.
So you think that everyone should have blind patriotism, no matter what the government is doing? If so, then do you realize that that sort of blind patriotism is what the Nazis had during World War II?

Also, what makes you think that this election "will not go as expected"?

And why do you think that non-Christians should have God centered in their lives?
 
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ExaltTheLord

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So you think that everyone should have blind patriotism, no matter what the government is doing? If so, then do you realize that that sort of blind patriotism is what the Nazis had during World War II?

Also, what makes you think that this election "will not go as expected"?

And why do you think that non-Christians should have God centered in their lives?


Blind patriotism is not what i'm recommending...
It is Bush that does not want to give up power, mark my words- He is not finished with his terror.

Not sure if you messed up on you're last statement or what? But, EVERYONE should have the Lord Jesus Christ centered in the middle of ever action they take and every thought that passes through their God given bodies. Most of us are struggling with that, as am I.

You sound pretty defensive on this subject, if other people are badgering you about it i'm sorry friend, that is not what i am doing. All i ask is that we weigh our decisions carfully at this point in time, nothing is as it seems. The devil is like a 3 headed monster, biting at anything he can get ahold of. The world is in a dark place, the only light is being dimmed by the Dethroning of our loving God, may we all pray and set ourselves straight in the eyes of the Lord.

As a avid conquestor for Obama, i ask you, is he really what your life stands for?

As always, God Bless.
 
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HannahBanana

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Blind patriotism is not what i'm recommending...
It is Bush that does not want to give up power, mark my words- He is not finished with his terror.

Not sure if you messed up on you're last statement or what? But, EVERYONE should have the Lord Jesus Christ centered in the middle of ever action they take and every thought that passes through their God given bodies. Most of us are struggling with that, as am I.

You sound pretty defensive on this subject, if other people are badgering you about it i'm sorry friend, that is not what i am doing. All i ask is that we weigh our decisions carfully at this point in time, nothing is as it seems. The devil is like a 3 headed monster, biting at anything he can get ahold of. The world is in a dark place, the only light is being dimmed by the Dethroning of our loving God, may we all pray and set ourselves straight in the eyes of the Lord.

As a avid conquestor for Obama, i ask you, is he really what your life stands for?

As always, God Bless.
Obama is not "what my life stands for," but he is, in my opinion, the better candidate out of the two. Trust me, I know he has his weak points, but McCain has more weak points than he does, in my opinion.

Also, are you really saying that non-Christians should focus their minds and lives around a god who they don't even believe exists? Do you not see how illogical that is?

Also, I dare you to prove that the Devil exists, without using the Bible, since that's just a book.
 
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Sketcher

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The whole idea of waiting for any alleged messiah to show up and fix something that is entirely the fault of the people who live in this world.
It's entirely disgusting in that we make this world what it is and then ya'll expect someone else -- ALWAYS someone else -- to fix it for us. Whether that someone is god, the nazarene, or some other alleged prophet, it doesn't matter who.
The entire idea makes me want to retch.
Disgusting.
I'll tell you what's disgusting. The results of humanistic "solutions" to problems only God can solve. We're really good at killing people and starving people in our attempts to make a perfect world. We're all supposed to help against these problems, but this notion of utopia is a pipe dream that too many have starved, became ill, and died for.
 
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HannahBanana

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I'll tell you what's disgusting. The results of humanistic "solutions" to problems only God can solve. We're really good at killing people and starving people in our attempts to make a perfect world. We're all supposed to help against these problems, but this notion of utopia is a pipe dream that too many have starved, became ill, and died for.
So you're saying that people can't do any good at all in this world, and that we should wait for some mystical man in the sky (who only seems to help people who don't even need his help) to do good in this world instead? Wow, what a negative, lazy mindset. And people wonder why Christians are so universally hated these days...
 
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Sketcher

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So you're saying that people can't do any good at all in this world, and that we should wait for some mystical man in the sky (who only seems to help people who don't even need his help) to do good in this world instead? Wow, what a negative, lazy mindset. And people wonder why Christians are so universally hated these days...

We can do some good, but we can't fix what is the most broken because we are fallen creatures ourselves. Want evidence? Click my signature link. And BTW, I don't like humanism going the other way (Objectivism) any better.
 
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HannahBanana

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We can do some good, but we can't fix what is the most broken because we are fallen creatures ourselves. Want evidence? Click my signature link. And BTW, I don't like humanism going the other way (Objectivism) any better.
What about people who realize that communism is a bad idea, though? What's so bad about those people trying to make this world a better place?
 
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Sketcher

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What about people who realize that communism is a bad idea, though? What's so bad about those people trying to make this world a better place?
Ayn Rand recognized that communism is a bad idea, but her extreme views are no better morally speaking. Communists hijacked and perverted "love your neighbor as yourself." Rand just kicked it to the curb. Those Enron guys and the people at the top banks who got rich screwing their shareholders? Rand would have patted them on the back.

I hate to pull a Godwin here, but the Nazis also thought they were making the world a better place. Killing off their political opponents and those they saw as inferior. A better place for the master race.
 
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HannahBanana

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Ayn Rand recognized that communism is a bad idea, but her extreme views are no better morally speaking. Communists hijacked and perverted "love your neighbor as yourself." Rand just kicked it to the curb. Those Enron guys and the people at the top banks who got rich screwing their shareholders? Rand would have patted them on the back.

I hate to pull a Godwin here, but the Nazis also thought they were making the world a better place. Killing off their political opponents and those they saw as inferior. A better place for the master race.
So, just because of a few bad apples, you think that no one should try to make this world a better place? What about people like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Mother Teresa? Don't they pretty much prove that people are capable of doing good in this world?
 
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Apollo Celestio

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The only way to make this world perfect is to kill all living things. The perfect world is a lack of one. It is simple really. Life is pointless, it is irrational, it should not exist. Why do we live? Why are brought into this deception? Why do we delude ourselves with these foolish notions of living together and making the world a better place? The only true peace is to disappear.

Oh wait, the Lord is real, and he made us for his purposes. So much for that.
 
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HannahBanana

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The only way to make this world perfect is to kill all living things. The perfect world is a lack of one. It is simple really. Life is pointless, it is irrational, it should not exist. Why do we live? Why are brought into this deception? Why do we delude ourselves with these foolish notions of living together and making the world a better place? The only true peace is to disappear.

Oh wait, the Lord is real, and he made us for his purposes. So much for that.
LMBO. You honestly think that, just because there is no apparent reason why we exist, that means that God must exist? Do you not realize how illogical that thought process is?
 
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Sketcher

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So, just because of a few bad apples, you think that no one should try to make this world a better place? What about people like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Mother Teresa? Don't they pretty much prove that people are capable of doing good in this world?
Yes, but they did show that they made blessed little progress towards utopia. And two out of those three were Christians, by the way. The other, Ghandi, was familiar with Christ's teachings. He didn't get that stuff he is known for from Hinduism. He Hinduized Christian teachings. And, though unrelated to this, he failed. India and Pakistan are two separate countries who still hate each other. They both went so far as to acquire nuclear weapons to wipe the other country off the map.

Dr. King, he made progress. But he did not eliminate racism. He made some inroads to doing so, but it's still there. And people tend to forget that he wanted to heal wounds in the church. He wanted black Christians and white Christians to come together as equals at the table of brotherhood - which is holy communion. Did he want blacks and whites outside the church to get along too? Yes, but he really wanted Christians to come together as Christ intended. That's a Christian goal, not a humanist goal (though, as history shows, humanity benefits when Christian goals are reached by Christians who are focused on God rather than this world).

Mother Theresa, looking through the cold, collectivist lens which quite a bit of humanists use, you can honestly ask what good she did for humanity working in a house for the dying. Christians know the answer, we know that is a time of great spiritual need. And what she started did expand itself in ways that saved a great many lives, but she was focused on the next life, not this one. She was not trying to create utopia, she was trying to bring the love of God to those who had no reason to see it.
 
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HannahBanana

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Yes, but they did show that they made blessed little progress towards utopia. And two out of those three were Christians, by the way. The other, Ghandi, was familiar with Christ's teachings. He didn't get that stuff he is known for from Hinduism. He Hinduized Christian teachings. And, though unrelated to this, he failed. India and Pakistan are two separate countries who still hate each other. They both went so far as to acquire nuclear weapons to wipe the other country off the map.

Dr. King, he made progress. But he did not eliminate racism. He made some inroads to doing so, but it's still there. And people tend to forget that he wanted to heal wounds in the church. He wanted black Christians and white Christians to come together as equals at the table of brotherhood - which is holy communion. Did he want blacks and whites outside the church to get along too? Yes, but he really wanted Christians to come together as Christ intended. That's a Christian goal, not a humanist goal (though, as history shows, humanity benefits when Christian goals are reached by Christians who are focused on God rather than this world).

Mother Theresa, looking through the cold, collectivist lens which quite a bit of humanists use, you can honestly ask what good she did for humanity working in a house for the dying. Christians know the answer, we know that is a time of great spiritual need. And what she started did expand itself in ways that saved a great many lives, but she was focused on the next life, not this one. She was not trying to create utopia, she was trying to bring the love of God to those who had no reason to see it.
Why are you focusing so much on utopia, though? Everyone knows that that's impossible, so why not focus on simply trying to make the world a better place however you can? (Which is what Gandhi, MLK, and Mother Teresa all did.)
 
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Sketcher

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Why are you focusing so much on utopia, though? Everyone knows that that's impossible, so why not focus on simply trying to make the world a better place however you can? (Which is what Gandhi, MLK, and Mother Teresa all did.)
Because utopia is the logical goal of those who look down on the hope we have for Christ's second coming or similar concepts in other faiths. Someone else went so far as to call it disgusting. I'm simply showing that this other dream has more disgusting results.
 
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HannahBanana

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Because utopia is the logical goal of those who look down on the hope we have for Christ's second coming or similar concepts in other faiths. Someone else went so far as to call it disgusting. I'm simply showing that this other dream has more disgusting results.
Since when do all non-Christians vie for utopia? Do you have any actual proof to back up that claim?

Also, doesn't it just make more sense to think that non-Christians, like Christians, just want to make this world a better place, without any specific goal (such as that of a utopia) in mind?
 
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Sketcher

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Since when do all non-Christians vie for utopia? Do you have any actual proof to back up that claim?
I didn't claim that. There are many non-Christians who don't believe in utopia, and long for the day when their god either delivers humanity or sends someone who will. Such as the Jewish belief in the Messiah, and the Muslim belief of al-Mahdi. And then, with the Eastern faiths, it's just a matter of detachment from this world - getting off the wheel and merging with Bhrama or Nirvana or what have you. I was strictly referring to humanists who denigrate the hopes of those who look to the divine to make it all better, one way or the other.

Also, doesn't it just make more sense to think that non-Christians, like Christians, just want to make this world a better place, without any specific goal (such as that of a utopia) in mind?
I'll agree with you there, as there are many kinds of non-Christians as I just explained. But secular humanists are inherently utopian. If anyone isn't, I question how secular or how humanistic they really are.
 
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HannahBanana

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I didn't claim that. There are many non-Christians who don't believe in utopia, and long for the day when their god either delivers humanity or sends someone who will. Such as the Jewish belief in the Messiah, and the Muslim belief of al-Mahdi. And then, with the Eastern faiths, it's just a matter of detachment from this world - getting off the wheel and merging with Bhrama or Nirvana or what have you. I was strictly referring to humanists who denigrate the hopes of those who look to the divine to make it all better, one way or the other.


I'll agree with you there, as there are many kinds of non-Christians as I just explained. But secular humanists are inherently utopian. If anyone isn't, I question how secular or how humanistic they really are.
But isn't it just lazy to not do anything to make this world a better place just because you think that God will do all of that work for you? (I'm using "you" in a general sense, by the way. I'm not talking about you specifically.) And isn't laziness a sin? So why are you basically saying that it's okay for Christians to be lazy?

Oh, and I consider myself to be a secular humanist, and I'm not utopian. Who are you to say otherwise?
 
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Sketcher

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But isn't it just lazy to not do anything to make this world a better place just because you think that God will do all of that work for you? (I'm using "you" in a general sense, by the way. I'm not talking about you specifically.) And isn't laziness a sin? So why are you basically saying that it's okay for Christians to be lazy?
The Christian belief is that humanity is hopelessly broken, and as a result so is this world. That will not change in this age. Only in Christ do we have any hope. Because Christians have Christ, we are to do good works and fight against evil. This means we don't sit on our hands and not feed the poor. We feed them, but we also recognize that famine cannot and will not be eliminated. Or take another example: There are still 27 million slaves in the world, IIRC. We can fight a problem, but only God can truly and utterly defeat it. Is it good that slavery has been reduced and universally condemned in the West? Were Christians right to fight against it and to continue to do so? Yes, but the problem still exists and only God can fully stamp it out. I wouldn't call that laziness. I call it working with reality, and nobly so.

Oh, and I consider myself to be a secular humanist, and I'm not utopian. Who are you to say otherwise?
Are you now? The epitome of secular humanism is reaching utopia. Maybe you're just not deep into it. I don't mean any disrespect by saying that.
 
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