Urban legend?

[Dale]

Jlujan69:
"While the article basically calls it this, several Vietnam vets I forwarded this to, disputed it, though they didn't claim it was necessarily a common event. So, does this belong in the category of urban legend?"

It would be helpful if you would say what the issue is in the OP instead of merely referring us to the link.

As for spitting on returning veterans being an urban legend, it's more like a partisan lie. I watched and read news constantly all through the Vietnam War and I have no memory of any such incident even being alleged, let alone proven.

The notion that veterans were spit on by anti-war people seems to reflect an assumption that Vietnam Veterans went willingly and came back supporting the war. Neither is true. Huge numbers of the soldiers sent to Vietnam were draftees, including many of those who died or were injured. Many of those who returned did not support the war, if they ever had.

I knew man who had been a Marine in Vietnam. He had all his teeth knocked out in a battlefield accident. He also became a pacifist after coming back from Vietnam.

As for veterans being mistreated on their return from a war zone, it might be more to the point to say that there was an incredible dislike of young people at that time. Anyone who had reached middle age "knew" that young people were lazy and stupid. Recent veterans and war protesters alike were often told that they were too young to have an opinion.

Returning to the spitting claim, I have heard this it only from men too old to serve in the Vietnam war.

 

[Dale]

MachZero in post #3:
" Jane Fonda's radio broadcasts to men serving in Viet Nam"

I find myself wondering if you have Jane Fonda mixed up with Tokyo Rose in a different war.

I do not defend Jane Fonda's visit to North Vietnam, she certainly should have stayed home. However, it is amazing that all the people who have complained about her visit for years don't remember Ramsey Clark's visit to North Vietnam in 1971. Ramsey Clark was Attorney General under Lyndon Johnson. In 1971 he was out of office and went to North Vietnam as a private citizen and took part in a propaganda show. Yet I have never heard a word of criticism of Ramsey Clark from those who target Jane Fonda. Does she get all the flak for being a woman or what?

 

[MachZer0]

MachZero in post #3:
" Jane Fonda's radio broadcasts to men serving in Viet Nam"

I find myself wondering if you have Jane Fonda mixed up with Tokyo Rose in a different war.

I guess she saw Tokyo Rose as someone to imitate

I do not defend Jane Fonda's visit to North Vietnam, she certainly should have stayed home. However, it is amazing that all the people who have complained about her visit for years don't remember Ramsey Clark's visit to North Vietnam in 1971. Ramsey Clark was Attorney General under Lyndon Johnson. In 1971 he was out of office and went to North Vietnam as a private citizen and took part in a propaganda show. Yet I have never heard a word of criticism of Ramsey Clark from those who target Jane Fonda. Does she get all the flak for being a woman or what?

Jane Fonda, Ramsay Clark, Tom Heyden and Noam Chomsky. Birds of a feather

 

[USincognito]

Jason Sparling, a soldier that lost his foot in Iraq,
went to an Anti-war rally, and he was spit on for voicing his opinion of the Iraq war. (only link was a video, and I can't do videos on my computer.)
So I don't doubt that some Vietnam Vet's were spit on for their service in Vietnam.
Widespread? Maybe not.
Did it happen? Probably.

There's nothing else on the web about him facing this?

And just because morons who have had it in the popular wisdom that VietNam vets were spit on might have spit on an Iraq vet does not in any way evidence the claims that it actually occured with VietNam vets.

I pointed out Mike Gallagher lying the other morning about how Jane Fonda was spitting on our current veterans by showing up at last weeks rally. If he'd said it once, I could easily have chalked that up to hyperbole, but he repeated it at least 5 times in the 10 minutes or so that I listened.

This is reminding me of an Irak veteran, shown on Hannity & Combs, who lost a leg, and was spat by the antiwar demonstrators. It never fails to domonize the other side

Did you get a name? Or was this the same guy Billnew was talking about?

 

[ElvisFan42]

Those of us who were there, eyewitnesses, know that it is not true, so yes, you would be repeating hearsy, spreading rumors if you will.

So because you did not see any war crimes while you were there, none occurred? That's a riot, surely you can do better.

Again, are you saying no war crimes were committed in Vietnam, war crimes like Kerry described?

 

[JoshuaW]

Those of us who were there, eyewitnesses, know that it is not true, so yes, you would be repeating hearsy, spreading rumors if you will.

If you really were in Vietnam, you deserve our respect and gratitude for your service.
However, during your tour you were extremely isolated, not only from world news but from incidents that may have occurred among other units in country. How could you possibly deny the existence of war crimes just because you didn't witness any?

 

[Jacey]

Crimes were committed. What's your point?

 

[MachZer0]

If you really were in Vietnam, you deserve our respect and gratitude for your service.
However, during your tour you were extremely isolated, not only from world news but from incidents that may have occurred among other units in country.

Is that so? Please remind me at what level I commanded, since you are so certain of my extreme isolation.

How could you possibly deny the existence of war crimes just because you didn't witness any?

I never denied that there were war crimes. I denied that war crimes were committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.... If you have evidence that war crimes were committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.... please offer it and set the record straight once and for all.

 

[JoshuaW]

Is that so? Please remind me at what level I commanded, since you are so certain of my extreme isolation.

I don't need to know the "level you commanded" to remind you of the isolation between units in Vietnam. Not even General Westmorland would have been aware of day to day atrocities, though he did his best to hide what he learned.

I never denied that there were war crimes. I denied that war crimes were committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.... If you have evidence that war crimes were committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.... please offer it and set the record straight once and for all.

That evidence is already in the Congressional Record. If you can disprove any of it, please do.

 

[MachZer0]

I don't need to know the "level you commanded" to remind you of the isolation between units in Vietnam. Not even General Westmorland would have been aware of day to day atrocities, though he did his best to hide what he learned.

So you're accsuing me, as part of the command structure, as well as Westmoreland of war crimes.

That evidence is already in the Congressional Record. If you can disprove any of it, please do.

All there is in the record is hearsay, and there are many folks on the left who have accepted that hearsay as fact, accusing us of war crimes and then disputing even the fact that many of us were spat upon when we returned. This is why many of us as veterans wonder which side of the Viet Nam war and the current Iraq war many liberals support.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

I don't need to know the "level you commanded" to remind you of the isolation between units in Vietnam. Not even General Westmorland would have been aware of day to day atrocities, though he did his best to hide what he learned.

That evidence is already in the Congressional Record. If you can disprove any of it, please do.

Do you mean the same Congressional Record that records John Kerry referring to hearsay?

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

 

[MachZer0]

Do you mean the same Congressional Record that records John Kerry referring to hearsay?

http://www.nationalreview.com/document/kerry200404231047.asp

Isn't it odd that when it suits their agenda so many on the left will accept hearsay as fact, and then place the burden of proof on the accused as we have seen here

 

[USincognito]

There's nothing else on the web about him facing this?

And just because morons who have had it in the popular wisdom that VietNam vets were spit on might have spit on an Iraq vet does not in any way evidence the claims that it actually occured with VietNam vets.

I pointed out Mike Gallagher lying the other morning about how Jane Fonda was spitting on our current veterans by showing up at last weeks rally. If he'd said it once, I could easily have chalked that up to hyperbole, but he repeated it at least 5 times in the 10 minutes or so that I listened.
----
Did you get a name? Or was this the same guy Billnew was talking about?

Speaking of hearsay... anyone have evidence of VietNam vets being spit on, or will you just like Mike Gallagher lie about it going on today, just like it was 40 years ago (supposedly)?

 

[MachZer0]

Speaking of hearsay... anyone have evidence of VietNam vets being spit on, or will you just like Mike Gallagher lie about it going on today, just like it was 40 years ago (supposedly)?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gallagher appeared to be speaking symbolically about spitting on Iraq War vets

 

[ElvisFan42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gallagher appeared to be speaking symbolically about spitting on Iraq War vets

The question about evidence of Vietnam Vets being spit on. Do you have any? I've never met a Vietnam Vet that witnessed it.

 

[MachZer0]

The question about evidence of Vietnam Vets being spit on. Do you have any? I've never met a Vietnam Vet that witnessed it.

Sure

 

[ElvisFan42]

Sure

You respond with hearsay? I could have wrote that, I wasn't even there.

This is what you are saying about the people Kerry quotes, that because he is hearing the story from other people, it's suspect.

Were you spit on? (I mean for serving in Vietnam, not for other reasons during your life).

Did you witness any war crimes?

 

[MachZer0]

You respond with hearsay? I could have wrote that, I wasn't even there.

This is what you are saying about the people Kerry quotes, that because he is hearing the story from other people, it's suspect.

Funny. I thought hearsay was acceptable to many on the left. Well, I guess that proves my point.

Were you spit on? (I mean for serving in Vietnam, not for other reasons during your life).

Nope

Did you witness any war crimes?

Nope, and had I, none would have been tolerated.

 

[ElvisFan42]

Funny. I thought hearsay was acceptable to many on the left. Well, I guess that proves my point.

I don't see where your point was proven. The only thing proven was both you and Kerry are willing to go to bat on other people's words since you didn't witness what you are defending.

Personally, I believe the guys that talked to Kerry claiming they witnessed crimes, and the people who say they were spit on. I also believe both claims have been taken well beyond what actually happened. Spitting on soldiers returning from war is wrong as well as raping and killing women and children is.

While I admire your position on witnessing war crimes, I doubt you would have been able to do much. You certainly could not have stopped a large group of men commiting them, your choice would have been to report them. What would you have done if you reported this to your superiors and it was ignored?

 

[Billnew]

There's nothing else on the web about him facing this?

And just because morons who have had it in the popular wisdom that VietNam vets were spit on might have spit on an Iraq vet does not in any way evidence the claims that it actually occured with VietNam vets.

I pointed out Mike Gallagher lying the other morning about how Jane Fonda was spitting on our current veterans by showing up at last weeks rally. If he'd said it once, I could easily have chalked that up to hyperbole, but he repeated it at least 5 times in the 10 minutes or so that I listened.



Did you get a name? Or was this the same guy Billnew was talking about?

I think it's the same guy. Hannity did mention him.

By my offering J. Sparling, I was not saying that it had to have happened. I was just saying it probably happened then if it happened now. Can't say it happened alot.(I was only 5, when the U.S. fled Vietnam>) But I have no doubt some extremist anti-war person then could be like this extremist anti-war person
now.