Upon This Rock...

FaithfulPilgrim

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Hello!

I have a question for the Restoration Christians here.

In one verse, I think it is Matthew 16:18, Jesus tells Peter that upon the rock He will build His church. Now the rock could he Peter himself, his confession, or Jesus, but that is a topic for another time.

I am curious how the Restorationists interpret this verse since (if I am understanding your movement correctly) the Restoration Movement believes that all other churches teach error if not outright apostate, when Jesus said the gates of Hades will never prevail. So if the truth was lost until the rise of Restorationism, did the gates of Hades prevail since the truth was lost until the Restoration Movement?

I don't know if I am getting my point across clearly.

Also, if I sound confrontational, that is not my intention, I am just curious how you interpret the verse.
 

RedPonyDriver

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I have NEVER heard that all other churches are apostate in my years of being a member of a Restoration Movement church. Maybe the ultra-conservative wing of the CoC still preaches this, but personally I've never heard it once in over 15 years.
 
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SnowyMacie

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Hello!

I have a question for the Restoration Christians here.

In one verse, I think it is Matthew 16:18, Jesus tells Peter that upon the rock He will build His church. Now the rock could he Peter himself, his confession, or Jesus, but that is a topic for another time.

I am curious how the Restorationists interpret this verse since (if I am understanding your movement correctly) the Restoration Movement believes that all other churches teach error if not outright apostate, when Jesus said the gates of Hades will never prevail. So if the truth was lost until the rise of Restorationism, did the gates of Hades prevail since the truth was lost until the Restoration Movement?

I don't know if I am getting my point across clearly.

Also, if I sound confrontational, that is not my intention, I am just curious how you interpret the verse.

In my 23 years in the Churches of Christ, I never once heard that preached. It may still exist in ultra-conservative CoCs, but it is by far from the norm.
 
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shadowhunter

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I am comfortable answering only for me.

The Greek church went to the Hebrew church and said "We want to be Christian, but we do not wish to be Jewish. Tell us the bare minimum." So Paul chose to know nothing but Christ and him crucified while among them. He gave them Christianity-lite. It was sufficient for salvation, but not much else.

The Greeks never understood that Mammon means 'the believing ones' , not money. So they argue about how much money they can have. But God says you cannot serve him and yourself.

The Greeks never understood that agape in Hebrew is 'enemy'. They try to teach about agape love, but it is most simply understood that it is the love that God gave to his enemies.. us. It is the love we are to show to our enemies as we love them and expect nothing in return.

The Greeks never understood mustard.

The parable of the mustard seed is taught this way by the Greek (Gentile) church: The kingdom starts off small and grows larger and larger. If we have faith like the seed we can do miracles that no one seems to be able to do (move the mountain to the sea). We argue if the birds are angels, demons, or Gentiles. Then we wonder, and or defend, that Jesus said it was the smallest seed, when everyone else knows its not. This is NOT biblical preaching!

Hear the WORD of the LORD!

Jesus was the seed of the woman in Genesis. He was the least of all the seed because he served us all through his death on the cross. The word for ‘mustard’ in Greek is similar to ‘bruised by anger’ in Hebrew. The prophecy of the seed of the woman speaks of his incarnation, kenosis, tribulation, temptation and final obedience on the cross.

The seed (Jesus) grew to be the great herb. The grass was given to cattle to eat, and the herbs were given to men to eat. The greatest thing men can eat is the body of Christ. He is the great herb. Eating is a metaphor for learning, so he became the great teacher. We also celebrate the cattle eating the grass when we put baby Jesus in the manger with the grass. We have the same symbol of eating his body at the beginning of his life with the grass, as we have at the end of his life with the bread.

The tree is the cross… and those birds? If you live in the spirit you rest in the cross.

Lets move a mountain. The two mem’s in the Hebrew word for waters מים have metaphoric meaning for the Father and the Son. The Father is Spirit and the Son is Truth. Jesus told the woman at Sychar that though she worshiped on the mountain, she would worship in Spirit and Truth. The mountain would be moved to the water.

The parable of the mustard seed speaks of Christ at every turn and is revealed by the word itself. The parable contains a riddle:

Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
The Greeks conquered the laity with their priesthood (Nicolaitans), compromised with the government (doctrine of Balaam), adopted Jewish ritual in their mass (Judaisers), deified Mary, and killed heretics, demonstrating they did not understand agape.

Through it all God's word did not return void, and people were saved. The gates of hell did not prevail. Jesus had said that those who did not understand (see) would still do the work. The Restoration movement is supposed to be restored and always restoring. Always turning back to scripture for answers rather than on the traditions of men.

Sometimes our own freedoms, as in not having musical instruments, become a law and a tradition unto themselves. But hey, we're sinners too.

By the way: Simon Peter means "heard the rock". Jesus was the Rock. It is upon Jesus and hearing Jesus that his church is built.

All of us were heretics yesterday ... It's called learning something new each day. Get over it. ;)
 
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