Unsaved

[BeccaLynn]

I apologize for this being such a long post. It's been a long time since I've written anything on here. However, I've really been struggling lately and recently began seeing a professional counselor. I was diagnosed with ocd about 10 years ago, but I know that since my childhood I felt so far away from God and like something was wrong with me. I finally opened up when I was about 20 to my mom who informed me she understood. She was actually finally diagnosed with ocd about 2 years ago.

The thing is that although I know I have scrupulosity ocd, my feelings and fears of not being a genuine Christian always seem to be confirmed. I will give certain examples that absolutely haunt me. Years ago, I was so tired of dealing with "blasphemous" thoughts and feeling as if I never was and never could be saved that I told God I hated Him and that if I was a real Christian like people told me I was (some people I confided in tried to assure me I was saved, but some also agreed that I was lost), then why didn't I have peace?! That was a Saturday night or a Sunday morning one. At church service that very next day (or the day I made that statement on), the sermon was "No Jesus, No peace. Know Jesus, Know peace." Okay, so that seemed to be my answer straight from God. I had asked why I didn't have peace, and He assured me that it was because I didn't know Jesus, just as my feelings strongly told me to start with. Another time, I was in a department store with my mom. I saw a man I didn't know and became very uneasy and afraid of him. That is very unusual for me, but something about him really scared me. I didn't say anything about it, but then my mom noticed him and said, "Oh, that's the minister from Shiloh Baptist Church." He had preached a sermon where she attends church and she remembered him. I asked God why I felt so afraid of him and, of course, in church very soon after if not right after that, the sermon included the words "sometimes the Holy Spirit in someone's life can convict another person." Well, that must have obviously been why I was afraid of him, right? Another time that haunts me probably the most is when I asked God why I seemed to be stuck in all this and that I never seemed to be changed. I was really struggling with feeling unsaved as usual, and I just opened my Bible. The very first words I read, even though I don't remember where they are in the Bible, were the ones about how new wine can't be poured into an old wineskin. That new wine must be poured into a new wineskin. That was on a Saturday. I told God that I didn't know what that meant but that I was sure He was going to tell me. He definitely did. That following day, as usual, those very verses are what the sermon involved. The minister said that it meant that Jesus can't pour Himself into someone who's not been made new or changed by His spirit by being saved, that they can't contain Him just like an old wineskin, representing the "old unchanged man", can't contain new wine without rupturing. That was my confirmation again. My answer was that I've not been saved, so Jesus can't change me.

I'm so stuck in all of this! So many nights I try to just ignore my pounding heart and sleep when I'm so terrified of dying and going to Hell that it seems impossible to rest at all. I can't tell you how many times I've prayed to be saved, feared I've not really repented, asked God to help me genuinely be repentant if I've not, and I feel so defeated. Sometimes I think, and have just told God, that although I don't feel it, I'm just going to do what His Word says. I pray all over again to be saved and quote Romans 10:9-13 about confessing Jesus and believing in your heart, but the feelings I have and the confirmations I feel God repeatedly gives me echo relentlessly in my thoughts. Again, I know I have ocd, but people can obsess over things that are true too, like being lost. I may have been able to have a greater ability to overcome if the "confirmations" weren't what I obsess about the most.

What do I do about what I refer to as God's confirmations? I don't see how there is any way all of these could just be coincidences. There have been more than these, but these stick out the most to me. I often times feel just hopeless and like I was born cursed. Thank you for reading all of this.

 

[tripletiger1200]

Have you asked him to save you and change you? The work of salvation and change is done by God and not man. Do you recognize that you are a sinner, and that you need a savior? Do you believe that you do not deserve God's grace? Have you asked Jesus to be your savior?
I think sometimes coincidences are just coincidences. Granted, God could be speaking to you, but if HE is speaking to you, do you really think that He would show you how to be saved, then decide not to save you if you asked?
Gos is bnetter than that

 

[flowerforever7]

BeccaLynn,

I don't want to invalidate your experiences as not significant or not being from God. I don't know whether they were from God or not. However, I would like to point out that you are taking pieces of events that happened in your life and taping them together. I would like to suggest, that the reason why these look as if they are messages specifically for you may very well be because your mind is fixated on this issue, so naturally you are going to make connections or search for them and say "aha, this confirms what I was thinking.” However, the truth of it may just be that your mind is hyper-fixated on the topic so your subconscious and / or conscious mind are trying to make connections to make sense out of what you think is very important and relevant to you. It sounds very natural. Could it have been God speaking? Possibly. However, what I do know is, God has given us the Scriptures. They have information unto salvation. You can trust the Scriptures because you know they are from God. You are (guessing) that these events combined with your interpretation of them are or may be God's revelation to you. You really don't know if this is the case or not for certain, so all you can do is guess ultimately. Instead of trusting what you are not sure is from God or not, it would be better to trust the Scriptures as a compass not these events and your interpretations of them.

Also, I find it is so important when reading the Scriptures, to make sure you understand the context of what you are reading and apply the Scripture in its’ proper context. Who was being spoken to in a particular book in the Bible? What was happening? What was being addressed and why? Sometimes you can pick one Scripture and think that God is speaking to you personally through it regarding something you are thinking of; and that may be the case sometimes. But if you randomly pick one that has a message of judgment (you may assign yourself a judgment that God hasn’t even placed on you) especially if the passage you are reading applies to a specific people for a very different reason. Yes, God’s word applies to us, but we need to understand it as it was meant to be understood when it was written. If you read a Scripture that convicts you of sin, then choose to turn away from that sin and live for righteousness in that area; very simply put: repent. The second part of that is trusting God that He FORGIVES you when you do. He says that He does all throughout His word! It is tantalizing to try to seek "signs" from God instead of just reading his Word in the proper context (more time consuming), but taking time to understand what you’re reading from the Bible in its' appropriate and intended context alleviates the anxiety of uncertainty.

Hebrews 4:12

12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.


I do not recall anywhere in the Bible instructing Christ believers to look to events that are happening around them and try to piece together a personal revelation God has for them specifically. Instead, it encourages us to get direction, stability and understanding from the word of God. It repeatedly urges us to meditate on His word, store it up in our hearts, and for us to seek understanding.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Does God give us signs sometimes? I am not sure, but I think I have experienced some. At the same time, it’s best to use what God has said and we KNOW is the will of God for our lives as an anchor. We should rely on God's word; aspiring to understand it in the proper context, and how that applies to us.

My overall encouragement to you restated is to lean more on what the Bible teaches, seeking to understand what you are reading in the proper context; rather than relying on things you are piecing together that you are not totally sure are from God or not. That is the great thing about God's Word; it is always a compass that is reliable and something we can lean on and trust in.

Also, if you are concerned about your salvation in a technical sense, I recommend a read through the book of Acts, as there are a lot of conversions documented in there.

If you are more concerned about your salvation in a general sense, take it as a good sign you are concerned! God recognizes that. You want to be saved. God wants you to be saved. Consider Philippians 1:5-7 “6And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” Yes, we have to strive to live a holy life. Yet, you are not doing it alone, God is right there with abundant mercy and grace for when you mess up.

Jesus says in 1 John 1:8-9
"8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And in Romans 3:23 it says:
"23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"

That is what grace is for. You can't benefit from grace if you don't need it. And the last I checked all of us people need grace because we all sin.

I can see from your post that salvation is very important to you. The fact that you care so much matters a lot to God, because it’s saying that you value His will and that HE matters to you. Don’t think for a second God does not see that. He does. Trust in God’s grace toward you; keep reading His word in proper context being obedient to it. From there God will show you where to go, guide you and you will get confidence.

I think sometimes us with OCD (at least myself) can magnify parts of the Bible that convict us of our errors (and it is important to let the word convict us and for us to change toward righteousness in these areas). Yet, sometimes we do this and totally do not allow the word to convict us (or give us conviction) when it comes to affirmations, like God’s love for us, His forgiveness, the fruits of His Spirit (mentioned in Galatians 5): love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control. (We need to remember these are attributes of God’s Spirit. This is WHO He is. We have a sin problem, but God has the answer – forgiveness of sins through Christ. We are sorrowful sometimes, anxious and uncertain, but God offers us immense comfort and understanding through His word and grace continually. Look for "confirmations" in God's word; that's where they are. It is especially important that you choose to believe God's word over what you feel, think and speculate. God's word is the truth!

Inbox me if you want to talk more about some of the stuff I wrote. I will pray for you. God bless you.
_____________
Acts 2:38 – “And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

 

[gracealone]

Hi Becca,
All I can tell you is that OCD has a very nasty habit of taking events, scripture quotes, sermon topics etc. and twisting them round in such a way to cause us to see them as signs or warnings that we might still be unsaved. Just as an example your very first "confirmation" about the sermon "No Jesus, no peace, know Jesus, know peace" is such a short sighted view of what peace with God really means. Our peace or reconciliation with God has nothing to do with our emotional state and everything to do with Christ's atonement for our sins. So right off the bat you are basing your salvation on whether or not you have a feeling of peace or not. That's pretty flimsy evidence for whether or not a person is saved... don't you think? There are those who are so confident in their own self righteousness when it comes to their standing with God that they feel very much at ease or peaceful about it.
Anyhow the bottom line is that if you have religious OCD you must be prepared for and expect these kinds of episodes. It's a pretty common experience for those of us with this kind of OCD. The key to getting better is whether or not you're going to allow them to shove you into trying to obtain reassurance or not.
I'm sorry that you're struggling. What does your therapist recommend you do in response to these events?
Praying for you.
Mitzi

I apologize for this being such a long post. It's been a long time since I've written anything on here. However, I've really been struggling lately and recently began seeing a professional counselor. I was diagnosed with ocd about 10 years ago, but I know that since my childhood I felt so far away from God and like something was wrong with me. I finally opened up when I was about 20 to my mom who informed me she understood. She was actually finally diagnosed with ocd about 2 years ago.

The thing is that although I know I have scrupulosity ocd, my feelings and fears of not being a genuine Christian always seem to be confirmed. I will give certain examples that absolutely haunt me. Years ago, I was so tired of dealing with "blasphemous" thoughts and feeling as if I never was and never could be saved that I told God I hated Him and that if I was a real Christian like people told me I was (some people I confided in tried to assure me I was saved, but some also agreed that I was lost), then why didn't I have peace?! That was a Saturday night or a Sunday morning one. At church service that very next day (or the day I made that statement on), the sermon was "No Jesus, No peace. Know Jesus, Know peace." Okay, so that seemed to be my answer straight from God. I had asked why I didn't have peace, and He assured me that it was because I didn't know Jesus, just as my feelings strongly told me to start with. Another time, I was in a department store with my mom. I saw a man I didn't know and became very uneasy and afraid of him. That is very unusual for me, but something about him really scared me. I didn't say anything about it, but then my mom noticed him and said, "Oh, that's the minister from Shiloh Baptist Church." He had preached a sermon where she attends church and she remembered him. I asked God why I felt so afraid of him and, of course, in church very soon after if not right after that, the sermon included the words "sometimes the Holy Spirit in someone's life can convict another person." Well, that must have obviously been why I was afraid of him, right? Another time that haunts me probably the most is when I asked God why I seemed to be stuck in all this and that I never seemed to be changed. I was really struggling with feeling unsaved as usual, and I just opened my Bible. The very first words I read, even though I don't remember where they are in the Bible, were the ones about how new wine can't be poured into an old wineskin. That new wine must be poured into a new wineskin. That was on a Saturday. I told God that I didn't know what that meant but that I was sure He was going to tell me. He definitely did. That following day, as usual, those very verses are what the sermon involved. The minister said that it meant that Jesus can't pour Himself into someone who's not been made new or changed by His spirit by being saved, that they can't contain Him just like an old wineskin, representing the "old unchanged man", can't contain new wine without rupturing. That was my confirmation again. My answer was that I've not been saved, so Jesus can't change me.

I'm so stuck in all of this! So many nights I try to just ignore my pounding heart and sleep when I'm so terrified of dying and going to Hell that it seems impossible to rest at all. I can't tell you how many times I've prayed to be saved, feared I've not really repented, asked God to help me genuinely be repentant if I've not, and I feel so defeated. Sometimes I think, and have just told God, that although I don't feel it, I'm just going to do what His Word says. I pray all over again to be saved and quote Romans 10:9-13 about confessing Jesus and believing in your heart, but the feelings I have and the confirmations I feel God repeatedly gives me echo relentlessly in my thoughts. Again, I know I have ocd, but people can obsess over things that are true too, like being lost. I may have been able to have a greater ability to overcome if the "confirmations" weren't what I obsess about the most.

What do I do about what I refer to as God's confirmations? I don't see how there is any way all of these could just be coincidences. There have been more than these, but these stick out the most to me. I often times feel just hopeless and like I was born cursed. Thank you for reading all of this.

 

[BeccaLynn]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I really have been thinking lately that regardless of what I feel, I'm just going to have to read God's Word, do my best to obey Him and, if anything in me isn't right, just to allow Him to change it. I have tried to do this in the past though, and would push my feelings down, but they would always rise back up. Especially when I'd get a "sign", which in all honesty seemed to and still seems to happen a lot.

I know how ocd has a habit of rehashing things, but hearing in church something I've just said or asked God about seems to be the thing that really binds me. I have so many examples. I remember telling God one Sunday in church that whether I was saved or not, I was just going to praise Him. The words El Shaddai came to my mind. I'd heard them in a song, but I didn't know what they meant. In my mind I told God that I didn't even know what they meant. That morning, right after I'd thought that, a guest speaker came forward and the very first words were that on the way to church he'd seen a tag that said El Shaddai and that it meant "the God who is more than enough."

After initially confiding in my mom about what I was going through, I told her some things that I was feeling and then told her that I kept hearing things that I was thinking about in church too. That morning, the pastor said the exact words I had told my mom. She even looked at me as he said them because she remembered what I had just told her earlier that morning. I was sitting by her and I said, "See!"

Years ago, I decided to take my son out of public school to homeschool him. I didn't pray much about it because I have a tendency to think and feel that anything I want to do is what God doesn't want me to. Of course, I felt as if I was doing the wrong thing, but I pushed those old feelings down. During the night, I was awakened abruptly with not an audible voice, but with a voice that I heard inwardly so strongly that said, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I was like, "what?" That morning in church, again, that was what was said in the sermon in reference to Saul not obeying God's orders. After church, I told someone that we had decided to homeschool and that I was sacrificing my job, but . . . then it hit me, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I was giving up something and, even though I had good intentions, it wasn't God's will for us, just like I had felt it wasn't. We have had some terrible homeschool years too. My mom actually tried to kill herself our first homeschool year, and it really threw our year even more off. I've felt that I didn't obey God and He was warning me that it wasn't the best for our family and, since He knew what was going to happen, He was just trying to protect us. Our finances have suffered greatly. So, recently I prayed again about it. I took my Bible to the bedroom and asked God if I should continue to homeschool or put our son back in, and opened the Bible, happening across a devotion in it that quoted the very scripture "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I struggled so badly with this. Our son shows strong signs of ocd and has great anxiety, feels that he's stupid, etc., and I didn't want to put him back in the public school setting. I felt I would be setting him up to fail. But, I wanted to obey God too. So, I went to my mother's pastor. I left after meeting with him determined to homeschool and just push these feelings away. So, with that in mind I went to church that coming Sunday. For that Sunday and the probably 3 Sundays following that, the whole sermon was on obeying God and doing what He tells us to do, even when we don't understand why. Our minister even informed us he was moving to Texas because He was going to obey God, even though he didn't want to go. He said he's disobeyed God before and paid too high a price for it! Public school was starting the very next day in our area. I was afraid to send my son because of the emotional struggles he displays, but afraid I was disobeying if I didn't and that God knows best. My husband turned on a tv station one morning during all this time while I was ironing his clothes, and the entire sermon was on, of course, obeying God, even when we didn't understandy why. My mind told me I was be setting my son up for failure. He is not on the same academic level his friends are on and he wouldn't be able to keep up, and I know that. The amount of work would overwhelm him, and I know that too. But, I always feel as if I am supposed to overlook what I know and be obedient to what I'm truly thinking is God.

I know that this is just more repetitive "signs", and that ocd makes us more sensitive to certain things, but it's like it's constant. I was praying for God to help me know and believe His love for me and, although I wasn't looking for it, came across a devotion that had a verse I felt He had given me years ago in Romans 8 where it talks about nothing can separate us from His love. Well, I started to tell my prayer group that I felt God was reminding me of how much he loved me, but I didn't. That Sunday, the sermon was on those certain verses. I prayed about my husband being willing to give tithes, and the next 2 sermons were on tithing. So, how am I supposed to say, okay this is from God assuring me, like the sermon on love, but this one isn't what God is telling me, like obeying about putting my son back into public school or that I've really not let Him change me, like the wineskin verses?

I hope this makes sense. I hesitate to write anything a lot because there seems so much and I get overwhelmed. To answer some of the questions posted: Yes, I have asked Jesus to come into my life and change me. I just fear I'm not letting Him or am not truly repentant because I've never really feel as if I'm sorry as I should be. It's like it always falls back onto me, that it's not God at all, it's me not believing like I should or not really repenting. Someone told me once that it sounded as if I hadn't genuinely repented, so that's haunted me ever since. I've prayed to God that if I haven't, then please to cleanse me of anything that would be holding back sin. I can never feel as if I mean it enough though and I get entangled in it all.

And the question about what my counselor was telling me to do . . . he has recommended I read Talking Back to OCD. But how do I know what is ocd and what is God? I don't want to talk back to God. I can read His Word to tell, but I can really take scripture and tear it apart to where what I think and feel He is telling me is proven, especially when I keep hearing it in sermons. This book was recommended for me and my son. Also, he said that someone with ocd tends to look at the negative and not the positive. Like for example, the wineskin verse. He said that a Christian could take that and say, "Oh, thank you God that I'm a new wineskin!" But, that "ocd and the enemy would like to use things to convince us that we're the old wineskin the verse is talking about." Those aren't his exact words but somewhere along those lines. Of course, I thought, well a Christian would take them like that, but I'm not a Christian so I'm taking them differently. I know that's twisting his words though.

I know I'm just going to have to let everything go and just basically trust what God says in His Word, whether I hear my exact words in church or not. My husband says I tend to do worse after going to church. That's where I tend to hear what I've just thought or said though and I've not seemed to be able to get away from it. I feel like I'm a person putting her hands over her ears and saying to God, " I can't hear you. I can't hear you" when I ignore the "confirming words". I don't know if any of this makes sense to you at all, but it's my huge hang-up.

I apologize again for the long read, but I really do appreciate your responses. They do truly help.

 

[BeccaLynn]

I wanted to add something. A few weeks ago, I went to a health food store where we purchase things sometimes. There was a gentleman who worked there and who my husband and I had seen and spoken with quite often. The last time I saw him, I had this thought that I should invite him to church. But, it seemed awkward and I just pushed it aside. My husband saw his picture not long after that in the obituaries. It said he'd attended church as a youth. He was in his fifties at the time of his death. This has bothered me. What if had actually accepted my offer, but he didn't because I didn't listen to God.

Another time my cousin, whom I loved dearly, called to talk with my husband. My husband wasn't home so I talked to him. When I hung up, I started to tell him to be careful, but I dindn't and this voice in my head said, "What if you never see him again?" I "rebuked" the devil just not wanting to believe it and that night, my cousin was killed in a wreck. In saying this, I'm wanting to convey how scary I think it is to just push the thoughts away. What if they really are God and not ocd and I'm just not wanting to believe them because it's not what I want God to be saying to me?

 

[JesusHacker]

Dear family of Christian peoples!!!!!!!>.!>.1..1.1..1..3ojerik

Save?

Who need to be?

No One

Why?

Because God is the only one who can save His! creations from anything anywhere all the time. Man cannot be the one to influence anything into a welcomed Kingdom which is of an free atmospherical influential mainly up life. You can not force me to make a decision like any!! Got it.

Heaven is not a place for people to say " I got saved this and this time by this and this." When we arte all in Heaven eventually we will be saying I then recognized for myself a Jesus. Period.

People can seek and save yeah. But if you at all think that what you are doing is good for God your delusions are not from yourself and need proper instruction that comes from God. Not your parents...

God so loved the world He gave, His only son and we should as well. The give part I mean. So don't think that what your doing is useless try to remember that your just a major created loved biblically ambition rejoicer in an after wake of knowing your going to live forever.

But then in effect you kinda are ruining the ultimate which is for now only of being productive with your time here on earth.

Blaming yourself for the kindness that comes only once in a lifetime can be better used in the development of the future ... without the stapping point of the worry in which your judgement is a bad thing.

Nuff?

No

Judgement is of the character" in which you lived. not the determining factor.

Why would that be so if people are meant to believe God's Will and follow it?

JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can help everyone onlty if you let Him.

 

[gracealone]

Hi Becca,
I've never read, "Talking back to OCD" so I'll have to check it out.
I'm just hoping that the therapy tactics of the book aren't to suggest that you should rebuke or fight against the thoughts and accusations that your OCD throws at you. Doing that could and usually does make matters worse as it validates the thoughts by giving them attention. When my therapist recommended that I write logical countering or refuting statements as to why my OCD thoughts were not true my OCD got a lot worse. That kind of "back talk" was really counterproductive to my getting better.
For me the therapy that has worked the best is ERP, most especiallly as Dr. Phillipson explains it on his website ; www.ocdonline.com
Anyhow, what your counselor mentioned concerning how our OCD twists things that should be positive into negative is most certainly true.
Praying for you,
Mitzi

Thank you to everyone who responded. I really have been thinking lately that regardless of what I feel, I'm just going to have to read God's Word, do my best to obey Him and, if anything in me isn't right, just to allow Him to change it. I have tried to do this in the past though, and would push my feelings down, but they would always rise back up. Especially when I'd get a "sign", which in all honesty seemed to and still seems to happen a lot.

I know how ocd has a habit of rehashing things, but hearing in church something I've just said or asked God about seems to be the thing that really binds me. I have so many examples. I remember telling God one Sunday in church that whether I was saved or not, I was just going to praise Him. The words El Shaddai came to my mind. I'd heard them in a song, but I didn't know what they meant. In my mind I told God that I didn't even know what they meant. That morning, right after I'd thought that, a guest speaker came forward and the very first words were that on the way to church he'd seen a tag that said El Shaddai and that it meant "the God who is more than enough."

After initially confiding in my mom about what I was going through, I told her some things that I was feeling and then told her that I kept hearing things that I was thinking about in church too. That morning, the pastor said the exact words I had told my mom. She even looked at me as he said them because she remembered what I had just told her earlier that morning. I was sitting by her and I said, "See!"

Years ago, I decided to take my son out of public school to homeschool him. I didn't pray much about it because I have a tendency to think and feel that anything I want to do is what God doesn't want me to. Of course, I felt as if I was doing the wrong thing, but I pushed those old feelings down. During the night, I was awakened abruptly with not an audible voice, but with a voice that I heard inwardly so strongly that said, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I was like, "what?" That morning in church, again, that was what was said in the sermon in reference to Saul not obeying God's orders. After church, I told someone that we had decided to homeschool and that I was sacrificing my job, but . . . then it hit me, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I was giving up something and, even though I had good intentions, it wasn't God's will for us, just like I had felt it wasn't. We have had some terrible homeschool years too. My mom actually tried to kill herself our first homeschool year, and it really threw our year even more off. I've felt that I didn't obey God and He was warning me that it wasn't the best for our family and, since He knew what was going to happen, He was just trying to protect us. Our finances have suffered greatly. So, recently I prayed again about it. I took my Bible to the bedroom and asked God if I should continue to homeschool or put our son back in, and opened the Bible, happening across a devotion in it that quoted the very scripture "Obedience is better than sacrifice." I struggled so badly with this. Our son shows strong signs of ocd and has great anxiety, feels that he's stupid, etc., and I didn't want to put him back in the public school setting. I felt I would be setting him up to fail. But, I wanted to obey God too. So, I went to my mother's pastor. I left after meeting with him determined to homeschool and just push these feelings away. So, with that in mind I went to church that coming Sunday. For that Sunday and the probably 3 Sundays following that, the whole sermon was on obeying God and doing what He tells us to do, even when we don't understand why. Our minister even informed us he was moving to Texas because He was going to obey God, even though he didn't want to go. He said he's disobeyed God before and paid too high a price for it! Public school was starting the very next day in our area. I was afraid to send my son because of the emotional struggles he displays, but afraid I was disobeying if I didn't and that God knows best. My husband turned on a tv station one morning during all this time while I was ironing his clothes, and the entire sermon was on, of course, obeying God, even when we didn't understandy why. My mind told me I was be setting my son up for failure. He is not on the same academic level his friends are on and he wouldn't be able to keep up, and I know that. The amount of work would overwhelm him, and I know that too. But, I always feel as if I am supposed to overlook what I know and be obedient to what I'm truly thinking is God.

I know that this is just more repetitive "signs", and that ocd makes us more sensitive to certain things, but it's like it's constant. I was praying for God to help me know and believe His love for me and, although I wasn't looking for it, came across a devotion that had a verse I felt He had given me years ago in Romans 8 where it talks about nothing can separate us from His love. Well, I started to tell my prayer group that I felt God was reminding me of how much he loved me, but I didn't. That Sunday, the sermon was on those certain verses. I prayed about my husband being willing to give tithes, and the next 2 sermons were on tithing. So, how am I supposed to say, okay this is from God assuring me, like the sermon on love, but this one isn't what God is telling me, like obeying about putting my son back into public school or that I've really not let Him change me, like the wineskin verses?

I hope this makes sense. I hesitate to write anything a lot because there seems so much and I get overwhelmed. To answer some of the questions posted: Yes, I have asked Jesus to come into my life and change me. I just fear I'm not letting Him or am not truly repentant because I've never really feel as if I'm sorry as I should be. It's like it always falls back onto me, that it's not God at all, it's me not believing like I should or not really repenting. Someone told me once that it sounded as if I hadn't genuinely repented, so that's haunted me ever since. I've prayed to God that if I haven't, then please to cleanse me of anything that would be holding back sin. I can never feel as if I mean it enough though and I get entangled in it all.

And the question about what my counselor was telling me to do . . . he has recommended I read Talking Back to OCD. But how do I know what is ocd and what is God? I don't want to talk back to God. I can read His Word to tell, but I can really take scripture and tear it apart to where what I think and feel He is telling me is proven, especially when I keep hearing it in sermons. This book was recommended for me and my son. Also, he said that someone with ocd tends to look at the negative and not the positive. Like for example, the wineskin verse. He said that a Christian could take that and say, "Oh, thank you God that I'm a new wineskin!" But, that "ocd and the enemy would like to use things to convince us that we're the old wineskin the verse is talking about." Those aren't his exact words but somewhere along those lines. Of course, I thought, well a Christian would take them like that, but I'm not a Christian so I'm taking them differently. I know that's twisting his words though.

I know I'm just going to have to let everything go and just basically trust what God says in His Word, whether I hear my exact words in church or not. My husband says I tend to do worse after going to church. That's where I tend to hear what I've just thought or said though and I've not seemed to be able to get away from it. I feel like I'm a person putting her hands over her ears and saying to God, " I can't hear you. I can't hear you" when I ignore the "confirming words". I don't know if any of this makes sense to you at all, but it's my huge hang-up.

I apologize again for the long read, but I really do appreciate your responses. They do truly help.

 

[JesusHacker]

Dear family of Christian peoples!!!!!!!>.!>.1..1.1..1..3ojerik

Save?

Who need to be?

No One

Why?

Because God is the only one who can save His! creations from anything anywhere all the time. Man cannot be the one to influence anything into a welcomed Kingdom which is of an free atmospherical influential mainly up life. You can not force me to make a decision like any!! Got it.

Heaven is not a place for people to say " I got saved this and this time by this and this." When we arte all in Heaven eventually we will be saying I then recognized for myself a Jesus. Period.

People can seek and save yeah. But if you at all think that what you are doing is good for God your delusions are not from yourself and need proper instruction that comes from God. Not your parents...

God so loved the world He gave, His only son and we should as well. The give part I mean. So don't think that what your doing is useless try to remember that your just a major created loved biblically ambition rejoicer in an after wake of knowing your going to live forever.

But then in effect you kinda are ruining the ultimate which is for now only of being productive with your time here on earth.

Blaming yourself for the kindness that comes only once in a lifetime can be better used in the development of the future ... without the stapping point of the worry in which your judgement is a bad thing.

Nuff?

No

Judgement is of the character" in which you lived. not the determining factor.

Why would that be so if people are meant to believe God's Will and follow it?

JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can help everyone onlty if you let Him.

3:16

 

[BeccaLynn]

Thank you so much for responding. What I've read of the book so far seems to define what ocd is and has given examples of what others with ocd have been through. I can definitely relate to some of it, but it's not really geared toward religious ocd, so that does make it more difficult.

Although I've gone through some ocd related things that aren't necessarily of the religious nature, the salvation issue and such hit home a lot harder than the other issues because it's not just about dealing with things in the here and now, it involves my eternity. I guess that fear is what has such a hold on me and has kept me from really getting free from this. I know ocd feeds on fear too.

I tend to get overwhelmed when I'm reading something like this because I feel everything is important in the book, so it's been hard for me to make a lot of progress through its chapters. I'll let you know how it goes.

Again, thank you so much for reaching out to me!

 

[gracealone]

Hi Becca,
I'll continue to pray for you.
Learning how to do exposure and response prevention therapy takes a lot of time and practice as well as a willingness to exaggerate the fear during some of the exercises. It's like facing up to a huge bully without letting him see you flinch even though you are very scared. No easy task.
I understand how when we go through "religious OCD" we can wish to trade if off for our other obsessions as it truly does seem to be the most devastating of all themes. It's so threatening that if we switch to another theme for a time, like health obsessions, we will feel even more guilty that we are obsessing more about our health than our eternal standing with God.
As far as OCD feeding on fear, it's actually been referred to as a fear based disorder. It's not so much that it feeds on fear but that an overabundance of fear due to the misfiring of our fight or flight system is what primes our brains to develop the disorder. Then, because we have all that excess fear our brain searches for something to actually be afraid about. Then when it finds a fearful topic it latches onto that and the disorder is ignited. Then what feeds the fear or causes the feelings of fear to grow and become more instense is the ruminating that we do about the topic or theme that the OCD has settled on. It's the ruminating that feeds the fear response and the fear response pushes us to keep on ruminating. This is the cycle of the disorder. Once you begin to recognize the pattern you can learn to apply the brakes at the right time. That is what ERP teaches us to do.
I'll be praying for you that you'll learn to manage this beast rather than allowing it to manage you.
Mitzi

Thank you so much for responding. What I've read of the book so far seems to define what ocd is and has given examples of what others with ocd have been through. I can definitely relate to some of it, but it's not really geared toward religious ocd, so that does make it more difficult.

Although I've gone through some ocd related things that aren't necessarily of the religious nature, the salvation issue and such hit home a lot harder than the other issues because it's not just about dealing with things in the here and now, it involves my eternity. I guess that fear is what has such a hold on me and has kept me from really getting free from this. I know ocd feeds on fear too.

I tend to get overwhelmed when I'm reading something like this because I feel everything is important in the book, so it's been hard for me to make a lot of progress through its chapters. I'll let you know how it goes.

Again, thank you so much for reaching out to me!

 

[kaykay9.0]

There has already been some great input here and the only thing I can add is that I have indeed learned that yes, God does speak to us in various ways, BUT coincidences abound as well. And remember we do have a spiritual enemy who exists too and may prey on our weaknesses. Don't discount this.

I liked very much what Flowerforever said about going with what is totally known to be God~~the scriptures (IN CONTEXT!!) This is key. Otherwise, I think someone who battles OCD can set themselves up for deception/misery. I have done so in my own life and only in hindsight could I see that it was most likely NOT God speaking at all!

 

[BeccaLynn]

Thanks KayKay and Gracealone. I'm really struggling right now. Often times, I feel as if this is one of the worst things a person could have to deal with. I envy people who, even though life gets difficult and they have their own personal battles, know that they belong to Jesus and regardless of what happens, they have that confidence within their hearts. Sometimes I just cry because I would love to know how that feels.

Gracealone, after my mom tried to commit suicide, she went to a facility in AZ that dealt with scrupulosity OCD and other anxiety based disorders. I'm pretty certain that they used Emotional Response Therapy there. A huge struggle for her was that she felt she had blasphemed God and couldn't be forgiven for it. They told her to say aloud the "blasphemous" words she thought so that they would eventually lose their power over her. She never could do it though. She left severely depressed. Another patient had a germ phobia, so they took her to McDonald's, had her go the the restroom to flush the commode, and then told her not to wash her hands. I know they really stressed facing your fears by inviting the very thing you were afraid of the most. I think that's a form of emotional response therapy, right?

FlowerForever, what you wrote was also excellent advice. I really had been thinking along the lines of just taking what I KNEW was God, what His Word said and says and just reminding myself of that regardless of anything else. I'm so afraid of missing God and, as a result, something bad happening to me or a loved one, not because God made it happen out of vengeance or anything, but because He was trying to get me to listen to protect us and I didn't.

Anyway, I just felt a need to connect with people who somewhat understood. I guess it's a form of seeking reassurance.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[Jesusisgood]

I feel that same way too right now.

 

[gracealone]

Hi Becca,
First off, let me say that I feel tremendous empathy for your pain. I also envied every person who seemed so relaxed and confident in their Christianity. I remember looking at my husband during those dark days and thinking that he might as well of been wearing a halo in comparison to me. I was so jealous of his peace and confidence. At one point I even envied my cats. I thought, "well at least they don't have sense enough to even contemplate this stuff so they cannot suffer like I do... it would feel wonderful to be cat right now."
The therapy you referred to is actually "Exposure" and Response prevention therapy. The Exposure is not just to the thought or blasphemous statement but rather to the threatening outcome that the thought creates. Some people can learn to say a blashphemous thought over and over but still hang on to ruminating about whether the horrific outcome of having or thinking that thought will come true or not. It's the ruminating and searching for reassurance when the thoughts are there that must be stopped or prevented.
Exposure makes room in the brain for the thoughts/doubts but refuses to attend to them. Active exposure chooses to willfully consider the fearful outcome that the thoughts create in the most exaggerated way possible. If the thought threatens that you might end up in hell then you picture what that would be like if it were to be true in the most detailed and vivid way you can. I wrote it all out and then read it back to myself outloud and then taped it and listened to myself saying it. It started out like this; "Because I had the thought ___________________ I am more than likely doomed to hell." Then I wrote out the horrific details of what that would mean for me. NOT FUN or easy. But what I was doing was habituating my brain to the thoughts. I was in effect robbing my OCD of all it's ammunition by willingly considering the worse case scenario, then just sitting with it without trying to reassure myself that none of it was true. It's kind of like saying to a bully; "go ahead and hit me, give me your best shot, I can take it and I refuse to flinch or back down you big ugly beast!" Bullies don't like this. They are only happy if they can get us to run, hide or do their bidding. Same thing with OCD. It hates to be ignored, mocked or when we willingly invite it to do it's worst.
Anyhow that's a brief overview of what exposure therapy looks like. When your dear Mom refused to say the blasphemous statement outloud she was treating the fact that she'd thought of it at all as being of great significance and importance. It might have worked better for her to first do exposure to the scary or horrific outcome that the OCD was threatening her with due to the fact that she had the thought. Interestingly enough for the person with tourettes syndrome who also might have the co-morbid condition of OCD they will not just think the thought but will also say it outloud. So they really have to get used to the idea that the uttering of it makes no difference. OCD is kind of like having tics of the mind. We don't want to think the thoughts but the harder we try not to the more we think of them.
Now, I apologize for my lengthy post. Hope some of it made sense to you.
I'm praying for you Becca.
Mitzi

Thanks KayKay and Gracealone. I'm really struggling right now. Often times, I feel as if this is one of the worst things a person could have to deal with. I envy people who, even though life gets difficult and they have their own personal battles, know that they belong to Jesus and regardless of what happens, they have that confidence within their hearts. Sometimes I just cry because I would love to know how that feels.

Gracealone, after my mom tried to commit suicide, she went to a facility in AZ that dealt with scrupulosity OCD and other anxiety based disorders. I'm pretty certain that they used Emotional Response Therapy there. A huge struggle for her was that she felt she had blasphemed God and couldn't be forgiven for it. They told her to say aloud the "blasphemous" words she thought so that they would eventually lose their power over her. She never could do it though. She left severely depressed. Another patient had a germ phobia, so they took her to McDonald's, had her go the the restroom to flush the commode, and then told her not to wash her hands. I know they really stressed facing your fears by inviting the very thing you were afraid of the most. I think that's a form of emotional response therapy, right?

FlowerForever, what you wrote was also excellent advice. I really had been thinking along the lines of just taking what I KNEW was God, what His Word said and says and just reminding myself of that regardless of anything else. I'm so afraid of missing God and, as a result, something bad happening to me or a loved one, not because God made it happen out of vengeance or anything, but because He was trying to get me to listen to protect us and I didn't.

Anyway, I just felt a need to connect with people who somewhat understood. I guess it's a form of seeking reassurance.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[bluestormz]

Go read my post, your situation is much easier than mine is. I think you won't go to hell, if your actions reflect genuine goodness and you say to God even if he doesn't like you anymore, I still believe someone or something is there. I think you'll be ok, now me on the otherhand, I'm a disaster.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Go read my post, your situation is much easier than mine is. I think you won't go to hell, if your actions reflect genuine goodness and you say to God even if he doesn't like you anymore, I still believe someone or something is there. I think you'll be ok, now me on the otherhand, I'm a disaster.

don't know your situation, bluestorm, but praying for you too.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Becca, I understand what you mean about the fear of "missing God" about something important. I have that too. At the same time, though, we MUST discern things, (thoughts, impulses) whether they be of God or not. If we just accept every thought that comes down the pike as being the LORD, I think we are going to be deceived and drive ourselves crazy in the process! Does that make sense? I know it's tough, expecially if you battle OCD. I fight that same battle. I really do. I ask the LORD frequently for wisdom and discernment about stuff. I also sometimes, if possible, "run it by" my husband or some other Godly person and see if they feel it's God or OCD. Especially if it something important or possibly important. Sometimes the counsel of others, if there's opportunity for it, can be invaluable. (This is biblical even without OCD.) Often though, we just have to make a quick decision and learn to discern ourselves. It's a process, I think.

 

[cedward1]

Often times, I feel as if this is one of the worst things a person could have to deal with. I envy people who, even though life gets difficult and they have their own personal battles, know that they belong to Jesus and regardless of what happens, they have that confidence within their hearts. Sometimes I just cry because I would love to know how that feels.

I can relate. I can't think of any worse anxiety than this. I used to go through a lot of obsessive worries, but no matter how bad they were I could always believe that God would make it all right in the end, even if not in this life. Then I started worrying that I couldn't be saved, and now there is nothing to fall back on for reassurance.

I wish I could know the peace of knowing I belong to Jesus, too.

 

[kaykay9.0]

This morning my pastor mentioned a bit about the old wineskins/new wineskins things and how people got "stuck" in old patterns of thinking etc. He specifically talked about being in a rut or being "stuck" and he used this specific word which was what you used, Becca. But again, he likened to being stuck in old or faulty patterns of thinking. The interpretation he was getting out of it had NOTHING to do with salvation or not, one way or the other. He was actually addressing it to believers in this context. Interesting that I read this thread this week and he began to talk about it including getting "stuck." If what you heard was any more than a coincidence, it very well could be that God was talking being "stuck" in your OCD thinking patterns, and NOT that you weren't saved. Do I think we ever hear something that gets misunderstood? Yes, I do! Just a thought....