unpardonable sin

[LoveAlways]

If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity as there is no salvation in it for them? Hebrews 6 talks of people that can't be forgiven. Why would an apostate return to Christianity knowing that the Bible dooms them to Hell?

 

[Emmy]

Dear LoveAlways. I am not sure that Apostasy is the unforgiveable sin Jesus meant. I know a number of men and women, who became renegades to Christanity, and after a period of deep sadness they realised their mistake, and asked God for Forgiveness. The Lord knows our very thoughts and wishes, He would if the sin is unpardonable. I am not quite sure, but the unpardonable sin is to do the unpardonable thing, and that to me seems, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and knowingly tell UNTRUTHS and LIES about Him, and I can only see a true follower of Satan doing this. I say this humbly and trustingly, LoveAlways, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[seashale76]

If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity as there is no salvation in it for them? Hebrews 6 talks of people that can't be forgiven. Why would an apostate return to Christianity knowing that the Bible dooms them to Hell?

The scriptures don't doom people to hell; they doom themselves. What is hell anyway?
I'm swiping this from here http://www.christianforums.com/t2642...ox-church.html as it says it better than I could:

The Orthodox teaching is that Heaven and Hell are the same "place" , standing in front of God. The Judgment is individual perception, determined by one's relationship to God. This perception will determine whether or not one experiences it as paradise (Heaven) or agony (Hell) eternally .



The unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV)

31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or the age to come.

From the commentary in The Orthodox Study Bible (p.35):
"12:32 Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is blasphemy against the divine activity of the Spirit--the accusation that Jesus healed the demoniac by demonic power (v.24) rather than by the power of the Holy Spirit (v. 28; see Mark 3:29, 30). Every sin against the Son of Man can be forgiven, because the Jews do not yet know much about Him. But blasphemy against the Spirit, whose divine activity they know from the OT, will not be forgiven. This blasphemy is willful hardness of heart. It attributes the saving action of the Spirit to Satan and refuses to accept God's forgiveness and mercy."

So, in a nutshell, if a person can be worried enough to fret about it, then they haven't committed the unforgivable sin. In other words, there is hope for such a person. Those blasphemy challenge individuals you see all over the internet are missing the point.

 

[seashale76]

And I'm not sure what "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is. Elaborate, please.

Well, you have people who know God, that he is real, that He works through the Church, etc. However, the blasphemy is when people attribute the saving power of the Holy Spirit to Satan and/or deny it completely. They harden their hearts against a God they know exists. Such people are denying any sort of salvation. This is why it is ridiculous to see atheists take up a blasphemy challenge to deny the Holy Spirit. One must actually believe and know God exists to truly blaspheme in this manner.

 

[Solidlyhere]

The OP asks: "If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity?"

So what if a person has done something that (he thinks) will keep him out of Heaven?

Religion is for THIS Life.
A person "gets" religion to make this human existence better.
The Afterlife (if it exists) is a BIG question-mark.
If one reads all of the New Testament, he will find 100 ways a practicing Christian could miss-out on getting into a good Afterlife.

So, that apostate will come back to religion for the same reason that brought it to him in the past: A better Life.

I doubt very many people are so shallow that they would take on a religion (and a way of Life) simply as Insurance of the future.
That would be a long-away pay-off.

 

[LoveAlways]

The OP asks: "If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity?"

So what if a person has done something that (he thinks) will keep him out of Heaven?

Religion is for THIS Life.
A person "gets" religion to make this human existence better.
The Afterlife (if it exists) is a BIG question-mark.
If one reads all of the New Testament, he will find 100 ways a practicing Christian could miss-out on getting into a good Afterlife.

So, that apostate will come back to religion for the same reason that brought it to him in the past: A better Life.

I doubt very many people are so shallow that they would take on a religion (and a way of Life) simply as Insurance of the future.
That would be a long-away pay-off.

I mean no offense, but the crux of the evangelical movement is on getting "saved" and on emphasizing that Christians go to Heaven while non-Christians go to Hell. Most protestant Christians on this board are 100% sure they are going to Heaven. Salvation is a key doctrine, and without it, I doubt very much we'd have Christians.

 

[LoveAlways]

What I'm talking about is specifically these verses from Hebrews 6:

[BIBLE]4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, (C) 5 tasted God's good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away, because, [b] to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt. (D) 7 For ground that has drunk the rain that has often fallen on it, and that produces vegetation useful to those it is cultivated for, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and about to be cursed, and will be burned at the end.[/BIBLE]

This would seem to indicate that someone who once believed in Jesus and then didn't can not come back to salvation.

 

[seashale76]

What I'm talking about is specifically these verses from Hebrews 6:

[bible]4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, (C) 5 tasted God's good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away, because, [b] to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt. (D) 7 For ground that has drunk the rain that has often fallen on it, and that produces vegetation useful to those it is cultivated for, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and about to be cursed, and will be burned at the end.[/bible]

This would seem to indicate that someone who once believed in Jesus and then didn't can not come back to salvation.

Oh, this goes further than mere belief (which doesn't and never will mean the same thing as salvation). Who can claim salvation in this life when their race isn't completed? This refers to someone who was truly part of the Church. Someone who communed and then left; who knew God, as they were partakers of the Holy Eucharist, and then decided to hate and reject God anyway. They had Christ in them. For whatever reason, such a person refuses to repent and return and hardens their heart. No, they can't return...because they don't want to.

 

[Solidlyhere]

The OP said: "the crux of the evangelical movement is on getting "saved" and on emphasizing that Christians go to Heaven while non-Christians go to Hell. Most protestant Christians on this board are 100% sure they are going to Heaven."

Yes, that is True.

But, you started this Thread, suggesting that it was only about this person who thought he had committed the unpardonable sin.

To this person, he left his Church for either:
1) He committed this unpardonable sin; or
2) For a different reason.

If he left, thinking that some Sin has caused him to be Doomed, then he didn't give up on Jesus ... to the contrary, he wrongly assumed that Jesus had given up on him.

For this man, even though he firmly believes that he is out-of-the-Loop (Heaven-wise), he can come back to his Salvation.

Because Salvation is NOT for a person when they die ... it's for this time while we ARE Alive.

And, the way I see it, Jesus will accept him back as a Christian.
Then, even if the man doesn't believe he will be forgiven, Jesus will do it for him anyway.
Jesus Loves us more than we Love ourselves ... Lucky us.

I disagree with your assumption that the ONLY reason a person would become a Christian is a glowing Afterlife.
I, myself, am interested in how I live my Life today.
I have Jesus as my role-model: Feel Love often ... Live a humble and Holy Life.

I don't much think about going to Heaven.
I have enough to think about, just trying to get through this Life ... relatively unscathed.

And, like I said before: "If one reads all of the New Testament, he will find 100 ways a practicing Christian could miss-out on getting into a good Afterlife."
So, when I read EVERY ONE of those stumbling-blocks, I see that I am stumbling away ... day after day.
Therefore, TRULY, I don't know if I will necessarily make it in.

There is one Parable I can think of right off the top on: Will Jesus accept a back-sliden person back?
It is the story of the Prodigal Son.
He leaves his Father, and takes all of his inheritance with him.
He spends all of his money on the Fast Life.
Later, he is working in conditions like a Slave.
He decides to return to his Father.
He is welcomed back in open arms.
They even killed the Fatted Calf for him.
His Brother wasn't Happy for all the gifts his Father bestowed on his errant Sibling.
Dad said: It's wonderful to have him back in the Fold.

I believe that Jesus told us this Parable to illustrate that anyone can come back to Christianity, and be forgiven for having left.

And, there's another Verse, which I cannot quote precisely: "Jesus is married to the back-sliders."
I haven't given this much thought yet, but (if you want me to) I could find several Verses to support this: Back into the Fold issue.

 

[hlaltimus]

If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity as there is no salvation in it for them? Hebrews 6 talks of people that can't be forgiven. Why would an apostate return to Christianity knowing that the Bible dooms them to Hell?

Hi, The incentive to go back to the Christian faith, (in the case of a person who fears that they have committed this sin,) is oddly enough....Having an incentive to go back! If you truly want to go back, then you can...Dismiss any thoughts about you or someone else being barred entrance into saving grace as having their original source from the tempter, which being is trying to dump his fate upon the tempted, but don't ever buy into it. If a person did commit that sin, (and I think that they're rare,) then they would truly be abandoned of God and all His saving graces and how, pray tell, could or would such a person honestly and sincerely desire God without that very grace as having come from God? What! A God who has just written off such a sincerely God-seeking soul....Never! Those wretched souls who have committed this sin deeply hate the Lord and find the prospect of any association with Him both repelling and offensive to their now immutable fallen natures. The only thing worse than an eternity spent with Satan for such souls would be an eternity spent with God, the Lord possessing a nature entirely opposite of theirs. No such abandoned soul could or would ever possess a sincere desire for His company and saving grace without both the saving grace of the company and conviction of the Holy Spirit upon them beckoning them into union with such a merciful God. If you truly want back in, then never doubt of your legitimacy for acceptance. Tell the tempter to mind his own business and then head straight for the cross of Christ and His kingdom and never, ever look back.

 

[Adstar]

If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity as there is no salvation in it for them? Hebrews 6 talks of people that can't be forgiven. Why would an apostate return to Christianity knowing that the Bible dooms them to Hell?

Have you read What Jesus said when He revealed what the unpardonable sin is?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[tapero]

If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity as there is no salvation in it for them? Hebrews 6 talks of people that can't be forgiven. Why would an apostate return to Christianity knowing that the Bible dooms them to Hell?

Hi, I haven't read any of the replies, but surely someone has already said what I'm saying here.

No one is doomed to hell unless and until they die in unbelief. (exceptions: satan; demons)

We do not know if we have tomorrow, so of course the time is now or today.

So, never ever to worry as there is no one on earth that God will reject no matter what they've done or said.

They can always come to Christ.

Even if they say they were a Christian or they were a Christian, no matter what they did or said in walking away, God is always standing there with open arms waiting for them.

This is for all, regardless of anything, and until we die.

take care,
tapero

 

[Adstar]

What I'm talking about is specifically these verses from Hebrews 6:

[bible]4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, (C) 5 tasted God's good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away, because, [b] to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt. (D) 7 For ground that has drunk the rain that has often fallen on it, and that produces vegetation useful to those it is cultivated for, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and about to be cursed, and will be burned at the end.[/bible]

This would seem to indicate that someone who once believed in Jesus and then didn't can not come back to salvation.

[FONT=&quot]That is if they believed in the real Jesus. If they knew Jesus. Not if they believed in a false version of Jesus, if they followed another jesus.


All Praise The Ancient of Days[/FONT]

 

[LoveAlways]

Well, a few nights ago, I was lying in bed because I couldn't sleep and I thought "that's it Christ, you win, I dedicate myself to you." Earlier I had asked God for religious direction-- show me where I'm supposed to be.

But since I have been an apostate in the past, I can't say for sure that I'm "saved".

 

[Edial]

If a person feels they have committed the unpardonable sin, what is their incentive to go back to Christianity as there is no salvation in it for them? Hebrews 6 talks of people that can't be forgiven. Why would an apostate return to Christianity knowing that the Bible dooms them to Hell?

I have 2 points concerning the unpardonable sin/falling away and 2 followups.

1.The definition of the unpardonable sin is plainly defined in the Bible. It does not really matter what we think it is, but how it is defined.

MK 3:28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
MK 3:30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."

In verse 30 Christ defined the unpardonable sin as when one thinks that Christ has an evil spirit.
In other words, when one truly thinks that demons are speaking through Christ and/or the miracles Christ made were not through Holy Spirit, but through evil spirits.
Such a person cannot be saved. He is spiritually "insane". And that insanity took a long time to develop by active rejection, knowing slandering and lies about Christ.

2. Concerning Hebrews 6.

HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we see the complete itemized list (the underlined) of what one must experience and then fall away in order not to be able to repent.

How do you believe that you have experienced all 6 underlined points?

3. The good comparison of two people that tried repenting after falling away are Peter and Judas Iscariot.

Peter denied Christ 3 times and then went back to his fishing business after Christ's death, "fell away".
Judas was remorseful for betraying Christ and then hung himself.

To a naked eye, Judas' repentance appears to be more powerful than that of Peter.
However, it is not so.

The difference between Peter and Judas is that Peter believed Christ, Judas did not.

Peter accepted Christ's authority, Judas did not.

Peter denied Christ because of simple fear and "fell away" by going back to his fishing business.
Judas denied Christ because he simply did not like his teachings.
Why was Judas so remorseful then?
Because he realized that he betrayed a righteous man who loved him. But he still did not believe in Jesus.

Please tell me, are there things that you flatly disagree with as far as Christ's words go concerning eternal life?

4. There is also a rule of a thumb.
The apostates simply do not care for salvation. A truly unrepentant person simply does not care for salvation. They do not believe in it.
It is a fairy tale for them.

If falling away bothers a person, he is more of a Peter for whom Christ came back.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Adstar]

Well, a few nights ago, I was lying in bed because I couldn't sleep and I thought "that's it Christ, you win, I dedicate myself to you." Earlier I had asked God for religious direction-- show me where I'm supposed to be.

But since I have been an apostate in the past, I can't say for sure that I'm "saved".

Do not place your trust in your own feelings of worthyness or otherwise in relation to being saved. Place your trust in the the rightiousness of Jesus place your trust in the Words of God.

If you believe Jesus then believe Him when He says.

[FONT=&quot]John 6:47[/FONT]
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.


[FONT=&quot]1 John 5:13[/FONT]
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[cfmember]

Paul said...."I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. (2 Tim 4:7,8)

"Keep the faith" instead of "Keep the Law" because no one can keep the Law. But what does it mean to keep the faith? The Word of God is our faith, all the things we believe are true. God tells us the SEED is the Word of God, planted in all men, and this is one way the faith is not kept....

"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved." Luke 8:11,12

We must hold fast to the truth. Don't let any man take it away and tell you that God doesn't really mean what he says. (A lot try to)

KEEP THE FAITH!

Paul says..."That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises." Heb 6:9-12
(Believe it (faith)....and....keep it (patience)

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Edial's response goes into the context of the verse some. Here's the context from Matthew's verse:

And all the multitudes were amazed, and began to say, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can He?" But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of demons."... And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come.

Matthew 12:23-24 ; 12:32

Here the people began to wonder if Jesus was the Messiah, so the Pharisees attributed everything He was doing to the power of Satan in order to stop them from believing in Him. That is what prompted the discussion that brought up "The Unpardonable Sin" verse.

So I believe that people can claim that Jesus was a liar and not believe Him, and that Christ will forgive that. But if someone acknowledges everything that Jesus Christ did, but claims that everything He did was somehow under the power/control of Satan, that Christ will not forgive that. Lesson: don't talk smack about the Holy Spirit. Jesus did everything by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by the power of Satan.


From dictionary.reference.com:

blasphemy

1. 1. A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
   2. The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
2. An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.

 

[cfmember]

sbbqb7n16,

Since Jesus spoke by the Holy Spirit, calling him a liar is calling the Holy Spirit a liar (child of the devil). The Bible says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Reminder - Debate is not allowed in Questions by Non christians - only nicene agreeing christians may respond to the op's questions -but do not debate other peoples answers

Guidelines for this forum: http://christianforums.com/t5775588-questions-by-non-christian-forum-rules-as-of-26-july-2007.html

thank you