Unmarried, Living together wants to preach

[cactusj]

I need a little help on how to handle a situation. two members of our church--passed retirement age--are living together as man and wife. They have the same last name so most people aren't even aware they aren't married. They have been living together since 1997 and very much consider themselves married in the eyes of God. He now feels he has been called to preach. Another church member wrote him a letter about him not being married and attending the church--I don't have all the details at this time but any help would be greatly appreciated.

In Him
Fredia

 

[wrench_twister]

I think personally that it is wrong to live together unmarried in any circumstances.But when God calls a person to servicem he will take care of the details before he lets that person serve,if he is in the will of god.
IMO of course, give it time and see what happens

 

[DeputyDan]

He is only lying to himself.

As you are aware Christians are usually held to a higher standard and preachers are held to an even higher standard - - - I agree with this by the way - -- -

He is not honoring God by his life style and he is not living together - he is shacking up (Dr. Laura there - but she is right).

I would not attend his church.

Also, IMHO you should stay out of the Church gossip scene - it helps no one and hurts everyone.

 

[ksen]

We had a situation in our church where an unmarried, divorced woman with children started having a live-in boyfriend. It came to our attention and as chairman of the deacons it was my responsibility to let her know that the situation was not honoring to God, herself, or her children and to plead with her to get things right.

If things didn't get made right then we were prepared to invoke church discipline. She chose to leave the church on her own instead of getting her life right. Should she do so she would of course be welcomed back with open arms.

How does this relate to the story at the top of this thread? This man is living in fornication. That is not to be allowed among regular Christians, nevermind the Pastor.

If God has truly called him to preach, then he needs to decide what's more important to him. Living in a sinful relationship with this woman, or obeying God. And even if he decides to follow his flesh instead of his call, then the Church still has some business before it that needs to be taken care of.

 

[LanceA]

A little thought on the marriage part. Ok the couple could go and get married by a judge and not get married by his minister. Is he married in the eyes of God? It is so easy to get married these days. I'm not agreeing with them living together, but does society today actually live up to Gods laws? Should he get married just for the sake of paperwork? And do these two really love each other? I know I am going through something similiar. I feel I am being called to be a youth pastor and am currently enrolled through global university until I can get out of the military. I will then transfer to Trinity bible college. Now I have been divorced and know if I marry again I cannot be a pastor. I can feel for the couple and will be praying for them.

Lance

 

[cactusj]

Thanks to all who answered and any more answers will be appreciated. The problem has sorta been resolved. When this person realized that he couldn't preach from our pulpit untill he and she married and he fullfilled the requirements of Timothy 3, he and she chose to start going to another church. At least thats how it looks right now.

DeputyDan, As to the gossip scene---there is no gossip. Only the people who need to know are involved in this--Our pastor and elder board. The general congregation know nothing about it. A friend of the person involved was who wrote him the letter. But, you are correct about gossip being wrong. and thanks again.

 

[Crusadar]

It is not always our position to judge others on what they practice in their walk with God for we are not the judge of men. However if a brother has sinned or is living in sin and it is known then it is our duty to remind him of Gods laws with regards to the institution of marriage. Yes it is true that pastors are held with great regards as leader of the church for they set the example for their members - less they be lead astray. My advice is to counsel and pray with the individual about his calling - whether if it is genuine and what example would he be for his congregation if he insists on living in this manner.

 

[bluewolf]

When you are talking about elderly people past retirement age, this, in my opinion is a tough issue. In our society, if married, you get the social security check of the highest paid person.

If unmarried, living together, they get two checks.

I have personally seen people living together, who have made the choice to remain unmarried for this reason. Sometimes they were companions and were not engaging in sexual activities. To me, this is a valid question.

It is sad when the retired persons are dependent on this income.

While, the Bible is clear on this issue, I still have compasson for these individuals.

When one has the 'call' to preach, this brings up another set of Biblical issues. Then if the man is preaching without monetary reward, it would require great faith on his part to trust the Lord to provide for his needs.

I hope that it does not seem that I am skirting the Bible on this issue. In this case, I think that prayer is the answer.

Laura

 

[Memory's Flame]

First my question is, what are your states laws on "Common Law Marriage" because being "church married" may not be a requirement... it sounds like that's the arrangement they have going on!

I support this man for his bravery of being able to stand up for what God has called him to do and not be afraid of the people who shoot him down for his life choices, which don't sound all that poorly made!!

Not only by his own congregation, but by people he will never meet here on this board!

Now I know it was just a question and these are opinions, thoughts and advice! But I think this man should be allowed to preach!

 

[Mr.Cheese]

I recommend getting to know them. Their age may have a lot to do with the situation. Just cause you pay into Social Security all of your life doens't mean the person you paid it to wants to give it back.

 

[Ioustinos]

Today at 10:28 AM JacqueB said this in Post #9

First my question is, what are your states laws on "Common Law Marriage" because being "church married" may not be a requirement... it sounds like that's the arrangement they have going on!

I support this man for his bravery of being able to stand up for what God has called him to do and not be afraid of the people who shoot him down for his life choices, which don't sound all that poorly made!!

Not only by his own congregation, but by people he will never meet here on this board!

Now I know it was just a question and these are opinions, thoughts and advice! But I think this man should be allowed to preach!

But there are Biblical Requirements that must be met if a person who wants to preach.

 

[ZiSunka]

She is fundamentally his concubine, in a sense. Did God ever let any of his prophets or preachers keep concubines?

 

[David Mark]

I need a little help on how to handle a situation. two members of our church--passed retirement age--are living together as man and wife. They have the same last name so most people aren't even aware they aren't married. They have been living together since 1997 and very much consider themselves married in the eyes of God. He now feels he has been called to preach. Another church member wrote him a letter about him not being married and attending the church--I don't have all the details at this time but any help would be greatly appreciated.

In Him
Fredia

On the surface of things and considering only what you said about them.
Not knowing them personally nor knowing all of the facts.
Striving for a black and white concise answer.

If they wanted to do the right thing (and they should), they should (at least) go to the Justice of the Peace and get married. Now it's a non-issue (With man). How God feels about it is between them and God.

If they want to publicly minister, they will be under much scrutiny. I would personally not sit under their preaching/teaching if they weren't married legally. Paul did many (good/right) things he did not have to do so that he could win a few out of the many he ministered to. Paul was under much scrutiny and he knew it.

Dave

 

[ZiSunka]

I agree that if they were really interested in serving God, they would go through the effort needed to make their marriage legal. If they aren't willing to do that, they aren't going to be willing to do a lot of the other hard work of preaching, either.

 

[Magisterium]

What appears to be eluding us on this thread is the importance of appearances. We often tend to discard and disregard appearances as though they are purely superficial and non important. However, they are profoundly important particularly in the mistry and among teachers...

As Paul explains in 1Cor:8 (the whole chapter), there is only one God. Therefore meat sacrificed to idols has no merit or demerit. However, for the sake of those who's faith is weaker, we aught not partake in order that their faith not be weakened. Paul then explains that such actions constitute scandal.

Likewise, we know, (or aught to know) that simple co-habitation is not in and of itself sinful, but it is the implication that ones cohabitating are likely engaging in sinful extramarital relations. Though this may not be the case in this circumstance, it could lead one, of less faith, to believe that such relations are now acceptable, and therefore constitutes scandal that must be avoided.

 

[David Mark]

What appears to be eluding us on this thread is the importance of appearances. We often tend to discard and disregard appearances as though they are purely superficial and non important. However, they are profoundly important particularly in the mistry and among teachers...

I agree. That is a great reply. Please allow Lambslove and myself credit for saying what you are also saying.

 

[ZiSunka]

Marriage is not an appearance, it is a legal contract. If they are unwilling to make a commitment between themselves, they are in no position to be making a commitment to anything else as a couple.

Once they get married, they can do anything they want, and if they are really so very much committed to each other and to God, getting married shouldn't be that big a deal.

People only stay single when they want to have an easy out, and folks who want an easy out are not going to be able to withstand the pressures of pastoring a church.

 

[Magisterium]

Marriage is not an appearance, it is a legal contract. If they are unwilling to make a commitment between themselves, they are in no position to be making a commitment to anything else as a couple.

Once they get married, they can do anything they want, and if they are really so very much committed to each other and to God, getting married shouldn't be that big a deal.

People only stay single when they want to have an easy out, and folks who want an easy out are not going to be able to withstand the pressures of pastoring a church.

Additionally, I'd like to add that marraige is even more than a legal contract. It goes beyond a contract which is an exchange of goods and/or services to the Holy level of a covenant. Covenants by definition are the exchange of actual persons. Marraige is instituted by God and likewise consecrated to him.

 

[mrsjordanjr]

I need a little help on how to handle a situation. two members of our church--passed retirement age--are living together as man and wife. They have the same last name so most people aren't even aware they aren't married. They have been living together since 1997 and very much consider themselves married in the eyes of God. He now feels he has been called to preach. Another church member wrote him a letter about him not being married and attending the church--I don't have all the details at this time but any help would be greatly appreciated.

In Him
Fredia

Their actions will confuse would-be Christians. Just like baptism is the physical action that increases faith, so should marriage. There are two baptisms - physical and spiritual. There are two marriages - physical and spiritual. Does this couple also believe in same-sex marriages? Although I am not perfect and have sinned against God many times, knowingly, I have learned that my actions can make or break a would-be believer in Christ. This is because they see with their eyes, not with their heart. If your actions cause another to sin, you are out of God's will. It is our Christian duty to set an example, no matter how small or unimportant you think it may be. We should not be the object of people's whisperings. That takes away from glorifying God.

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account..." (Hebrews 13:17).

Romans 1:28-32: "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

Hope this helps.

In Christ,
mrsjordanjr

 

[ZiSunka]

Covenants cannot be broken. Contracts can be broken. Since Christ gave circumstances under which marriage can be broken, marriage cannot be a covenant.