Unlimited Atonement

[Jon_]

This is simply a fact-finding thread. I am interested to see how people define and understand "unlimited atonement." You might already know that the Calvinist view is limited atonement, i.e. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sins, but intended specifically only for the elect. More definitively: Christ's propitiation only covers the sins of the elect. The elect are those justified through faith unto salvation.

How does the unlimited atonement view play out?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Amongst the Flock]

This is simply a fact-finding thread. I am interested to see how people define and understand "unlimited atonement." You might already know that the Calvinist view is limited atonement, i.e. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sins, but intended specifically only for the elect. More definitively: Christ's propitiation only covers the sins of the elect. The elect are those justified through faith unto salvation.

How does the unlimited atonement view play out?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

I agree with unlimited atonement if you are walking in the light and our truly sanctified to his will. THe Father took our sins away and nailed them to a cross by his son. God's grace and the precious blood of Christ covers our sins if we are walking in fellowship with him. If we backslide we run the risk of losing our faith because of the temptations of the flesh, the world, and Satan.

2 Corinthians 5:21

God made him who has no sin, sin for us so that through him we might become the righteousness of God.

This is where we disagree because I feel if someone walks away from God and gives up due to the constant pull of the world that they risk the chance of losing their God given gift of Faith and thus give up and go back to the sinful nature as their master and start to have confidence in the flesh again.

Thus Hebrews 6:4-6

It is impossible for those who have been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Thus Calvinists seem to agree that if someone walks away they never had true faith and were impostors. I don't see where someone can come off as to judge someone else's salvation. Plus alot of others feel as if the devil has no way of decieving believers from trusting in themselves and walking away. This scripture says clearly that if someone tasted the good news and love of Jesus and turned their back on him and discredited all of his works as false and returned to the world that it would be impossible for them to repent and come back.

Ezekiel 33:13

If I tell the righteous man he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done.

This warns against the self-righteous who decide they can go back to their old master of the flesh and put their confidence back in the flesh. Thus they would be turning their back on Jesus and saying I have done enough for the kingdom and I am retiring until death to gratify my fleshly pleasures that I gave up for the past odd years. Plus we know who got kicked out of heaven for being self-righteous and prideful.

I am not a Calvinistic scholar like some but I understand the basic principles. My problem is it seems as if Calvinists try to figure out who has true salvation and who was a false impostor because the temptations of the flesh, the world, and Satan drew them away to where they never answered the call and the devil broke their faith because they didn't grow in their salvation.

1 Peter 2:2

Like newborn babies crave pure spiritual milk so by it you will grow in your salvation now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

The living word is our foundation for our personal faith after salvation. Some don't read the word and their faith stays weak and the pull of the world keeps alot in spiritual dormancy. We can't grow in our salvation if we don't feed on the word and in essence strengthen our gift of faith. The Holy Spirit is our counselor in the word and alot never ask him to help.



Peace brother Jon.

 

[Jon_]

I agree with unlimited atonement if you are walking in the light and our truly sanctified to his will. THe Father took our sins away and nailed them to a cross by his son. God's grace and the precious blood of Christ covers our sins if we are walking in fellowship with him. If we backslide we run the risk of losing our faith because of the temptations of the flesh, the world, and Satan.

2 Corinthians 5:21

God made him who has no sin, sin for us so that through him we might become the righteousness of God.

This is where we disagree because I feel if someone walks away from God and gives up due to the constant pull of the world that they risk the chance of losing their God given gift of Faith and thus give up and go back to the sinful nature as their master and start to have confidence in the flesh again.

Thus Hebrews 6:4-6

It is impossible for those who have been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Thus Calvinists seem to agree that if someone walks away they never had true faith and were impostors. I don't see where someone can come off as to judge someone else's salvation. Plus alot of others feel as if the devil has no way of decieving believers from trusting in themselves and walking away. This scripture says clearly that if someone tasted the good news and love of Jesus and turned their back on him and discredited all of his works as false and returned to the world that it would be impossible for them to repent and come back.

Ezekiel 33:13

If I tell the righteous man he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done.

This warns against the self-righteous who decide they can go back to their old master of the flesh and put their confidence back in the flesh. Thus they would be turning their back on Jesus and saying I have done enough for the kingdom and I am retiring until death to gratify my fleshly pleasures that I gave up for the past odd years. Plus we know who got kicked out of heaven for being self-righteous and prideful.

I am not a Calvinistic scholar like some but I understand the basic principles. My problem is it seems as if Calvinists try to figure out who has true salvation and who was a false impostor because the temptations of the flesh, the world, and Satan drew them away to where they never answered the call and the devil broke their faith because they didn't grow in their salvation.

1 Peter 2:2

Like newborn babies crave pure spiritual milk so by it you will grow in your salvation now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

The living word is our foundation for our personal faith after salvation. Some don't read the word and their faith stays weak and the pull of the world keeps alot in spiritual dormancy. We can't grow in our salvation if we don't feed on the word and in essence strengthen our gift of faith. The Holy Spirit is our counselor in the word and alot never ask him to help.

Peace brother Jon.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, but this actually pretty off-topic. It seems like you are writing against OSAS, but I am not concerned with the state of salvation. I am looking to get input on God's promise of atonement. Is Christ's sacrifice unlimited in its effect, or limited?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[James1979]

Have you considered John 15:10?

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Now verses later Jesus was speaking with some Jews and the Jews asked him if he was the Christ. Jesus said he told him them and also told them that they believed not. Jesus told them directly eye to eye, face to face that they were not of his sheep that he lay his life for which we know that Christ came to pay for the sins of his sheep(elect, remnant, chosen)

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Now since these jews who were talking with Jesus, Jesus did not lay his life for them, that's a given right there. So these Jews would have to be the goats.

In Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

God Bless

 

[deu58]

Hi Jon

In my way of seeing the Scripture I see it more as unconditional rather than unlimited,

In the OT law there were certain conditions that had to be fulfulled on a daily basis and forgiveness was not universal, There were some who could not participate for several generations and some who could never particpate at all whether they wanted to not,

The NT covenant is open to one and all great and small, That is what makes it unconditional, But once we enter into the covenant we do have our part to do,

According to the bible there are those walking around today that think they are saved but they are not,

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

This shows that the availability of salvation is open to all. But it is not a get in free card, There are no conditions for reciving salvation but after receiving we must turn away from sin, The Bible says not the hearers of his words but the doers,

This does not mean we are perfect but we must make an honest effort to turn away from our sins,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[hindsey]

This is simply a fact-finding thread. I am interested to see how people define and understand "unlimited atonement." You might already know that the Calvinist view is limited atonement, i.e. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sins, but intended specifically only for the elect. More definitively: Christ's propitiation only covers the sins of the elect. The elect are those justified through faith unto salvation.

How does the unlimited atonement view play out?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

"...intended specifically only for the elect... Christ's propitiaion only covers the sins of the elect..." It was intended for the whole world (1 John 2:2). God set Jesus to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Only those that put their faith in Jesus' blood avail themselves of this offer.

Limited atonement "makes sense", but I don't see enough Scriptural support to say that Christ only died with those that were going to receive Him in mind.

By the way, I think you do a good job of defining limited atonement.