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Precisely the kind of world you're looking at right now, LOL!Evil is not so powerful God isn't able to disintegrate it entirely? On the contrary, God is entirely able. But he allows it to exist, and always exist, as a matter of choice. What kind of world would it be if we have no choice in our destiny?
Precisely the kind of world you're looking at right now, LOL!
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You may want to go back and review the posts in the thread, as theseUniversalism is infact a doctrine of false prophets. Jesus himself spoke of hell more than He ever did heaven. It is in the Bible plain and simple, if your not with God YOU WILL go to hell. Even in revelations on Judgement Day, Jesus judged those and sent the devil and his followers to hell forever, while the people who accepted Jesus Christ to reign with God forever. Universalism basically teaches that you can do whatever you want and still go to heaven, that is blasphemy.
, or "aionion." This word occurs in two places in Matt. 25:46: Let's look at it again in a Greek Interlinear form:
,
again we seem to be speaking and no one is listening..........As far as Universalism, I'd say that 'it appears that many
would rather be assured of living in sin and rejection of
Jesus Christ with no consequence'
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As far as Universalism, I'd say that 'it appears that many
would rather be assured of living in sin and rejection of
Jesus Christ with no consequence'
[/indent]
big dog big car... are they the same size?"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).The universalists do not believe in eternal punishment. Universalists teach that all will eventually be saved through the atonement of Jesus. Therefore, when the Bible speaks of eternal punishment and hell fire, etc., the universalist interprets it to mean an inner sorrow due to loss of reward and/or they maintain that the word "eternal" does not mean "without end."
In Greek, the word "eternal" is the word
, or "aionion." This word occurs in two places in Matt. 25:46: Let's look at it again in a Greek Interlinear form:
The exact same word
,
"aionion" is used to describe the duration of punishment as well as of the life of the righteous - those who are saved. The same word describes both conditions. If it means one thing in the first part of this sentence, then it means the same thing in the second part since they are both in the same context and both are describing time-duration of the states of the unsaved and the saved. If the punishment is eternal, then so is the life. Likewise, if, as the universalist says, the punishment is not eternal, then neither is the life. You can't pick and choose how the word is applied in this verse to suit your own theology.
But the universalists do just that. They want to have Jesus say that eternal life is forever but eternal punishment is not -- even though Jesus used the same word, in the same breath, to describe them both. It just doesn't fit their preconceived ideas.
big dog big car... are they the same size?
tall man tall skyscraper....are they the same heigth
long rope long line...are they the same length?
God is the author and creator of all of it:That makes God the author and creator of all bad things since that is where God sent our destiny?
Scripture tells us how free our wills are.No, sin and pain, hurt, and evil are all evidences of free will.
God is the author and creator of all of it:
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Lamentations 3:38 "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That
both good and ill go forth?"
Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the
men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with
Abimelech:
1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an
evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil
spirit from God troubleth thee.
1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are
before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp:
and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon
thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was
upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so
Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from
him.
1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit
from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the
house:
1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he
sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with
his hand.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in
the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil
concerning thee.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in
the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil
against thee.
Scripture tells us how free our wills are.
Heres a link: Clay, Meet Potter!
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Well if it's heresy to believe that God can restore His own world then by all means call me a heretic. That in no way means that Jesus "wasted his time on the cross" and it's frankly complete ignorance to even attempt to use that as an argument. If Jesus is 100% successful in redeeming the world does that make it a non event?????! Does it annoy you that those who didn't choose the same path as you won't in fact suffer for eternity but be reconciled to God? I'm starting to think of the prodigal son here....
It does explain a lot. It means that people can say that they 'chose' the narrow path and everyone who didn't 'chose' the wide one....
Would it bother you if those who didn't 'chose' the narrow path were actually reconciled to God? If you think that universalism somehow endorses people being able to do "whatever they want" without consequence then thats just ignorance. Take a look at the suffering in the world already or any ill advised choice you've made thats either caused yourself or others pain in this finite existence alone.
Universalism is the teaching that all people will be saved. Some say that it is through the atonement of Jesus that all will ultimately be reconciled to God. Others just say that all will go to heaven sooner or later, whether or not they have trusted in or rejected Jesus as savior during their lifetime. This universal redemption will be realized in the future where God will bring all people to repentance. This repentance can happen while a person lives or after he has died and lived again in the millennium (as some "Christian universalists" claim) or some future state. Additionally, a few universalists even maintain that Satan and all demons will likewise be reconciled to God.
Nevertheless, both facets of universalistic belief are in serious error. People will suffer eternal damnation (Rev. 14:11) and the demonic forces have no redeemer. But, in my opinion, though universalism is a grave error, holding to the idea that all will be saved in itself does not automatically make someone a non-Christian.
However, there are those within the universalist camp (who claim to be Christian) who also deny the doctrine of the Trinity and, thereby, the incarnation of the Word of God as God the Son. They also deny the personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit. Usually, these denials are held by Unitarian Universalists, though others who are not of the Universalist camp also deny the Trinity. Those who deny these essentials cannot be classified as Christians.
To deny the deity of Christ, is to deny one of the essential doctrines of salvation. In this sense, those universalists who deny the deity of Christ are in a false religious belief system. Of course, when one essential doctrine is denied, many other historic biblical doctrines are also denied and salvation is void because the object of faith is false.
There is no official "Universal Salvation Church" denomination but there is a Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA). The UUA can be classified as non-Christian because it denies the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, etc.
It is not possible to categorize all of universalists into one tidy doctrinal category. Its adherents vary in belief. Some are Arian (God is one person, Jesus is a creation). Some are Trinitarian. Others even lean toward new age concepts of man's divinity.
So, universalism is not really a doctrine that identifies a group. Rather, it is a doctrine of different, even contradictory groups, who all claim universalism.
The problem with words
The cults are particularly guilty of using biblical words with non-biblical definitions. This is absolutely necessary among them in order to maintain some sort of internal consistency of theology. So too, with many universalists. Hell can mean non-existence, after-life consciousness, or this present life on earth. Some universalists believe that all punishment is accomplished here on earth, while others believe it is future event with a loss of rewards, and not a physical punishment. The punishment in both groups is corrective and limited. It will last only as long, and only be as severe, as it takes to accomplish its corrective purpose, which is to bring all mankind to a state of holiness and happiness in obedience to God. Of course, the problem with this is that it strongly suggests that a person is made worthy to be with God through his own sufferings and corrections in the afterlife.
In universalism, the word "eternal" means "without end" when it comes to salvation, but not when referring to damnation, even though the same word is used for both and in the same context (Matt. 25:46). Universalists divide history and the future into different "eons" or "ages" and assert that punishment is "age-lasting," not eternal. The term "Son of God" is claimed by all groups as an accurate description of Jesus, yet to some it means a created being and to others it means God in flesh. Therefore, determining which belief is held by which universalist is often difficult and it requires digging.
Misrepresentation
Universalists often use the most negative terms to represent historic positions they disagree with. For example, regarding the damnation of the unsaved, instead of saying that historic Christianity teaches that those who reject Christ will suffer eternal damnation, they frequently say that historic Christianity teaches that "God can't save everyone and wants to torture most of humanity forever." Or, it is often implied that God will not torture people forever because "God is not sadistic enough to send people to hell." Such emotionally slanted words reveal a hostile bias against historic doctrines and is an unfair description of those beliefs. It is a surprisingly common tactic among universalists which demonstrates their lack of objectivity and sheds an automatic cloud of doubt upon their observations.
Conclusion
As you can see, universalism covers a wide range of beliefs. Though belief in universalism, in and of itself, does not automatically void salvation, it has the potential danger of allowing false teachers to abide alongside true believers as well as deny basic Christian teaching such as eternal damnation. Therefore, to determine if a universalist is Christian, you must delve further into other areas of his belief system.
Could you tell a four year old child that God allowed a man toCould you tell a four year old child that God had that man molest her?
God created that man, knowing precisely that it would happen. So,It's either God who is the perpertrator or the man who moslested her.
That's precisely what it is. "Righteous Brother Syndrome". ItWell if it's heresy to believe that God can restore His own world then by all means call me a heretic. That in no way means that Jesus "wasted his time on the cross" and it's frankly complete ignorance to even attempt to use that as an argument. If Jesus is 100% successful in redeeming the world does that make it a non event?????! Does it annoy you that those who didn't choose the same path as you won't in fact suffer for eternity but be reconciled to God? I'm starting to think of the prodigal son here...
Originally Posted by brinny
yet you are on a site that titles itself as Christian, and it is open conversation, and of course you will be challenged, and if challenged by Christians, you will be challenged with Bible verses, the Word of God, by which Christians live by and draw strength from for it is a Lamp unto our feet and a Light unto our path.
Of course. But as a Women's sub-forum is for women, so is a Philosophy sub-forum for Philosophy.
Philosophy is man's limited ideas,
All of humanity's thoughts are limited, including our thoughts about God.
dreaming with no destination in mind
That is simply not true. All philosophy has a focus. If it had no focus, it would not even be able to be represented.
sometimes a means of escape
Huh?
and sometimes a diversion from looking life square in the eye and sometimes it is merely wishful thinking...you could say at times it's verbal pot.
Of course. But as a Women's sub-forum is for women, so is a Philosophy sub-forum for Philosophy.
All of humanity's thoughts are limited, including our thoughts about God.
That is simply not true. All philosophy has a focus. If it had no focus, it would not even be able to be represented.
Huh?
I highly doubt you have any actual familiarity with philosophy. Who have you read? Whose philosophical texts are you basing this conclusion on?
If the answer is 'None', then who are you parroting? Your pastor? Your parents? Some self-proclaimed, self-taught Christian leader?
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