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Universalism

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FineLinen

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He has made known to us the secret of His will.

And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--

The purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.

And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."
Dr. Arthur Tappan Pierson -The Bible & Spiritual Life-

"This view (Restitution of All) is so clearly scriptural that the only surprise is that it has not been more definitely and widely held. It adds immeasurably, both to the glory of Christ as the coming King, and the Father as the former and framer of the ages. It is the period typified by the eighth day of the Mosaic Code: the perfect glory of Christ, reserved for 'the morrow after.' The millennial 'Sabbath.' And while the millenial period is limited to a thousand years, there are no definite limits to this final age of glory."

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus every knee will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be openly and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by all beings in the heavens, of those on the earth and those in the underworld."
-Dr. P. B. Fitzwater- (Professor of Systematic Theology- Moody Bible Institute) Christian Theology P. 407

Then there is the Universalist who declares that the redemption provided by Christ avails for the salvation of all men. This means that what God has done for the salvation of sinful men accrues to the benefit of all men. This view of Universalism is quite widespread. Many leaders in the evangelical church hold to this view, even though they have not dared to declare it."
I believe in the Restitution of all things!

The Second Death & The Restitution Of All Things -Andrew Jukes-

LINK

LINK

The Outcome Of Infinite Grace -Dr. Loyal F. Hurley-

http://www.fellowship.to/outcome.html

Whispering Hope

http://www.smickandsmodoo.com/aaa/lyrics/whisperinghope.htm

Free Download -Christ Triumphant-

Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

http://www.totlogcon.com/filealin.htm

[move]"God was in Christ returning to favour the whole alienated and hostile mass of humanity unto Himself."[/move]
 
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Campanella

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I tried to make a new thread, but i am still a newbie. So please bear with my post, for it does have something to do with universalism per se.

This is a reflection, or an interpretation on two approaches to suffering: one rejects it, and the other affirms it. These two contradistinct approaches are also impulses of worldviews: the negative rejection leads to religion, and the positive affirmation leads to tragic worldviews found in Hellenic Greece.

To be religious is to look long and hard into the depths of that human element - suffering - and in doing so a divine force is postulated, inferred, invented, or asserted.

To be religious is to see with the eyes of faith, which is the facility of seeing in the dark and enable groping around. This facility leads to a lack of expectation for evidence, assurance, or justification of any sort.

The genealogy of religion is couched within the interpretations of suffering - which are typically anthropomorphic responses to what is given & removed in suffering. Since suffering is taken as a moral outrage, the religious attitude is conceived or generated as a protest against suffering, a defiance against the violation of life. Religion is a posture of defiance, for it speaks in the name of life and defends against those inimical forces that degrade life.

The theologian Johann Baptist Metz thought religion speaks in terms of ex memoria passionis, from the memory of suffering (from Faith in History & society)

The most powerful images of judaism and christianity are the images of injustice & liberation (respectively, Crucifixion & Exodus).

Nonetheless, once religion begins to articulate itself in terms of grace that is granted to a 'chosen people,' it degenerates into a factional power and morphs into a force of oppression that lost its voice of protest. Once religion dumps the impulse for universal liberation, it is no longer universal, declining into a binary division between the believer and the infidel.

For the tragic, suffering is not a violation, but part of life, but a moment in the totality of life, and part of the whole. Since suffering belongs to life, protesting suffering is to protest life. Life is already conditioned by suffering.

Religion began with suffering, not God, and by protesting against its injustice, religion invokes God. While the tragic does not begin with atheism, it affirms suffering as part and parcel of life, which obviates the necessity of a divine arbitrator (God) in order to affirm the justice of suffering.

A selective affirmation of life that excludes suffering is like taking a vow that takes life for better but not worse. The affirmation of life is not selective or partial; it affirms the full monty, the whole, including both pain and pleasure, the midnight & high noon. Life is both overcoming & undergoing, and a constant fluctuation between both aspects. Ergo, affirmation embraces the whole flux without discrimination or exclusion.

The greatest dionysian response to life is amor fati - which avoids from hierarchizing life into binary opposites of the higher & the lower, affirming one while marginalizing the other. Life is innocent. The innocence of becoming entails the innocence of suffering.

Modern religion has divided life into two of a hierarchy, between the bearable and the unbearable, the true life n the enemy of life, guilty & innocent....

A psychologist once said that the most suffering animal on earth invented for itself - laughter!
 
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UberLutheran

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We have (roughly) 100,000,000,000 known galaxies in the known universe. There are probably far many more, but we'll use this number as a starting point.

An average galaxy might have 100,000,000,000 stars, each containing a solar system with planets.

That's 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems.

Let's say that no more than one billionth of a percent of these solar systems contain planets where life as we know it could exist. That's 1,000,000,000,000,000 (one quintillion) planets where life as we know it could exist.

Of these one quintillion places, let's say that a millionth of a percent of these planets will support human-type life. That's still 10,000,000 planets where human-type life as we know could exist.

Now: tell me that God is going to point to one sect of one religion on one planet, and the people of that sect that they, and they alone are going to Heaven because He has blessed them, and them alone -- and that He cursed all the rest of the people on that planet, plus all the beings on those 10,000,000 planets where human-type life exists have been condemned to a fiery, burning Hell because they don't accept the teachings of the one sect on that one planet -- and I will tell you that God is not a God worth believing in, let alone worth loving.
 
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Rockhead

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FineLinen said:
Dr. Arthur Tappan Pierson -The Bible & Spiritual Life-

"This view (Restitution of All) is so clearly scriptural that the only surprise is that it has not been more definitely and widely held. It adds immeasurably, both to the glory of Christ as the coming King, and the Father as the former and framer of the ages. It is the period typified by the eighth day of the Mosaic Code: the perfect glory of Christ, reserved for 'the morrow after.' The millennial 'Sabbath.' And while the millenial period is limited to a thousand years, there are no definite limits to this final age of glory."

-Dr. P. B. Fitzwater- (Professor of Systematic Theology- Moody Bible Institute) Christian Theology P. 407

I believe in the Restitution of all things!

The Second Death & The Restitution Of All Things -Andrew Jukes-

LINK

LINK

The Outcome Of Infinite Grace -Dr. Loyal F. Hurley-

http://www.fellowship.to/outcome.html

Whispering Hope

http://www.smickandsmodoo.com/aaa/lyrics/whisperinghope.htm

Free Download -Christ Triumphant-

Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

http://www.totlogcon.com/filealin.htm

[move]"God was in Christ returning to favour the whole alienated and hostile mass of humanity unto Himself."[/move]
Thanks FineLinen: I too believe in the restitution of all things in the Lord and
Saviour Jesus Christ!

"He has made known to us the secret of His will.

And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--

The purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.

And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."
 
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Purejay

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UberLutheran said:
We have (roughly) 100,000,000,000 known galaxies in the known universe. There are probably far many more, but we'll use this number as a starting point.

An average galaxy might have 100,000,000,000 stars, each containing a solar system with planets.

That's 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems.

Let's say that no more than one billionth of a percent of these solar systems contain planets where life as we know it could exist. That's 1,000,000,000,000,000 (one quintillion) planets where life as we know it could exist.

Of these one quintillion places, let's say that a millionth of a percent of these planets will support human-type life. That's still 10,000,000 planets where human-type life as we know could exist.

Now: tell me that God is going to point to one sect of one religion on one planet, and the people of that sect that they, and they alone are going to Heaven because He has blessed them, and them alone -- and that He cursed all the rest of the people on that planet, plus all the beings on those 10,000,000 planets where human-type life exists have been condemned to a fiery, burning Hell because they don't accept the teachings of the one sect on that one planet -- and I will tell you that God is not a God worth believing in, let alone worth loving.
Yet your a Christian :scratch:
 
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Purejay

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UberLutheran said:
Any particular reason why I shouldn't be?

Me being a Deist you already know my answer to that.


UberLutheran said:
Here's another unorthodox thing I happen to believe: All paths which lead to God are good.

That one just drives conservatives crazy... ;)
Considering there is only one path , I guess it would.
 
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Rockhead

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Yes, God has plenty of time in which to accomplish His perfect plan of salvation in His sons and daughters. He has the will to do it. And He has the power. Consequently, He will bring it to past in each one of us.

Maranatha, Elan
I Am A Convinced Universalist -Dr. William Barclay-

Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at Glasgow University and the author of many Biblical commentaries and books, including a translation of the New Testament, "Barclay New Testament," and "The Daily Study Bible Series."

Gathered Into The Love Of God

I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God's offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification.

Gathered Into The Character Of God

Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. "Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery." Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, "so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all." Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is "to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness." Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way.

Not The Argument Of Others

But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation.

His Final Triumph: All In All

First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself" (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: "God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all" (Rom. 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:twenty-eight). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," and of Christ Jesus "who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:4-6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all.

Pruning To Cause Growth- Remedial Punishment

Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to put it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.

His Grace Has No Limits

Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe.

Ultimate And Complete Triumph

Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-twenty-eight). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God - and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father - he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.

[Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pg 65-67, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]

The Priestly Work Of Jesus Christ

It reaches forward into the future, for the work of Jesus Christ as high priest is never ended. Even in the heavenly places he carries on his priestly work, for we have a high priest who has passed through the heavens. He appears in the presence of God on our behalf. He continues a priest for ever. He is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intersession for them.

Here is the picture of Jesus Christ saving in past time, saving in present time, and saving for ever. And in this picture and behind it there is something even more far-reaching. Its real meaning is that the life and death and the cross of Christ are not, as it were, some isolated incident. The incarnation and the crucification are not, as it were, emergency measures. This was not done because everything else had been tried and failed. The life and death of Jesus are not simply events in time; they are windows into the eternal heart of God, whereby we see the suffering and redeeming love of God which has been suffering and redeeming since the beginning of time and will go beyond the end of time. In Jesus Christ we see God, not as God for a moment became, but as God for ever was, for ever is, and for ever will be."
Many Witnesses One Lord -William Barclay-

http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showbook?item_id=1112
 
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Starstreak M86

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UberLutheran said:
We have (roughly) 100,000,000,000 known galaxies in the known universe. There are probably far many more, but we'll use this number as a starting point.

An average galaxy might have 100,000,000,000 stars, each containing a solar system with planets.

That's 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 solar systems.

Let's say that no more than one billionth of a percent of these solar systems contain planets where life as we know it could exist. That's 1,000,000,000,000,000 (one quintillion) planets where life as we know it could exist.

Of these one quintillion places, let's say that a millionth of a percent of these planets will support human-type life. That's still 10,000,000 planets where human-type life as we know could exist.

Now: tell me that God is going to point to one sect of one religion on one planet, and the people of that sect that they, and they alone are going to Heaven because He has blessed them, and them alone -- and that He cursed all the rest of the people on that planet, plus all the beings on those 10,000,000 planets where human-type life exists have been condemned to a fiery, burning Hell because they don't accept the teachings of the one sect on that one planet -- and I will tell you that God is not a God worth believing in, let alone worth loving.
UberLutheran,
Who says that God only told us humans about Himself? He may have said nearly the same, or the exact same things about Himself to people on other planets if other intelligent beings exist.

Who says that Christ only appeared to earth? After He died and rose, He came and went supernaturally, and had a glorified material body. Who says that He couldn't have appeared and witnessed to people on other planets as well?

Christ may have evangelized to other beings.

You also said,
"All ways that lead to God are good". Do you mean all of Christ's ways? I thought that Christ was the only way. ;)
 
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Starstreak M86

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FineLinen

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Starstreak M86 said:
Rockhead,
You're preaching to the Choir bro! ;)

Everyone else,
But for all the uncovinced Christians out there, Rochead's posts might shine some light.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/univart.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html
Hi there Starstreak....the choir at least is listening, in between antiphonal chords of worship!

Pastor Bob Torango

In my opinion, this subject (The Restitution of all things) will never be brought to a clear and defined conclusion through wrestling over scriptures and individual words and their hidden meanings. Reconciliation of all things is plainly written out in the scriptures as far as I am concerned, and if others don't see it that way, then that is their right and choice.

As for me, it is not a matter of having a boatload of scriptures displayed to prove our point of view, because the scriptures can be interpreted in manifold ways, and unless one reads them with the understanding of the Father's heart, the pure truth contained in them is veiled from that person's mind and they see what their carnal, or religious, mind can comprehend.

I think one has to think of God Himself, all of His attributes, all of His glorious power, His fathomless love, His enduring mercies, His Fatherhood in birthing creation from Himself, His giving of His most prized possession, His Son, Jesus Christ for the world, His victory over death, hell and the grave, His resurrection, His redemptive power, His cleansing blood, His strength, His Kingship, His Lordship. When I think on these things, I find no place for anything lost staying lost. I find no place for failure, or part salvation of anything He has created. When I ponder His love, which is beyond all comprehension, I cannot find anything in this world or the world to come that would be able to resist it's redemptive power.

Let others believe what they may, I find it completely implausible to mention defeat and God in the same reference. I find it totally ridiculous to harbor thoughts of God being anything less than "all in all", no matter how much someone tries to degrade that wonderful conclusion. God will be all to all creation, regardless of who is "in Christ" at this moment or not, by the time God is finished with His plan, His creation will be restored back into Him. Period.

Throw scriptures back and forth if you like, agree or disagree if you like, He didn't ask for your opinion or my opinion when He drew the plan up, He just created it and started it and is now bringing it to it's set completion. What a mighty God we serve!

The revelation that God will be all in all is not an intellectual prize to be won by proving it through the scriptures. The fact that it is as plain as day to me, does not negate the fact that others cannot see the scriptures the same way I and many others see them.

]So, it would be wasted effort on my part to try to "prove" this fact, based on scriptures alone, to anyone that is blinded to the scope of the Father's love that is necessary to bring such action to pass. I do enjoy seeing everyone displaying their awareness of what is stated in the scriptures, and I think most of us have stated our scriptural positions well, but at this point, we are still only seeing what we are able to see in the written word. So, maybe we should all get a better glimpse of the One that the word is speaking about, the High Potentate, The Bishop of our Souls, The King of the universe, Jesus Christ. Really, now, if you could see Jesus standing in front of you right now, could you possibly tell Him who He should restore and who He should not restore? Could you imagine letting the words, "can't" and "won't" escape from your lips, looking into His eyes? I cannot. That is my position and I think that will help me stay the course and to continue to be changed by that quickening spirit of The Lord Jesus Christ until all is finished. -Bob Torango-
If we think of God at all worthily, we cannot help thinking of Him as working for high and worthy ends. Therefore we cannot help thinking of Him, as in creation, working for some end worthy of Himself. But what end does the popular creed assign to Him? A creation mutilated, ruined, and that forever. A creation ending in misery and endless sin to infinite numbers of the created; and all this misery and horror brought into sharper relief by a vain and fruitless attempt to save all: by a purpose of love declared to all, and yet not in fact reaching all.
-Ray Prinzing-

The whole process of the ages is not without purpose. God has a plan being wrought out through the ages, and we are a part of that plan. Our finite minds cannot comprehend its full scope and meaning, but as we are brought back into harmony with Him, we shall know, even also as we are known. The ultimate victory is beyond present comprehension, but we are assured by the Scriptures that the glory to be revealed is so great we dare not compare it to the present sufferings and travail.

What causes us great personal rejoicing, to know there shall be a time of the fulness of our redemption, our jubilee, when we return unto HIM, is also to be multiplied in the grandest of measures, until the WHOLE EARTH shall enjoy her time of jubilee, fully loosed from the tyranny of change and decay, and restored into the realm of His more abundant life.
A gleam of light out of the dim, dim shadows,

Out of the lonely night,

There comes a ray of gladness,

There comes a gleam of light. And truth beams out in splendor,

And truth beams out with grace,

Grace for each weary pilgrim,

Grace for each tribe and race. Till lips which once were muted,

Till lips which once were still,

Are filled with God's own praises,

Are filled with God's own will. The hope of all creation,

The hope we've held so long,

Redemption's fullness hastens,

Redemption for the throng. While earthly kingdoms tremble,

While earthly kingdoms fall,

Shall Christ come forth triumphant,

Shall Christ be all in all.

A jubilee shall follow, A jubilee for man,

When earth shall be recycled,

And flourish once again.

Returning to His glory,

Returning back to God,

A restoration climax

To end correction's rod.

The belief that God will ultimately win all hearts to Him only attests to His almighty power, the power of His love, His wisdom, the effect of His grace. He desires to reign in all hearts and He is victorious in achieving this. Sin and Satan will not defeat this purpose. Again, someone may say that this is wrong, because it infringes on our free will. A parent infringes on the free will of a child many times to bring about what is best for the child. He or she strives to be effective, to have trained and molded the child in the way that he or she should go. Should not the great Potter be even more effective, the one who made all hearts and minds and knows how to reach each and every one? Or does the rebellious will of a deceived man have more power and effectiveness than the Creator? Is it wrong for, or so inconceivable, that the Creator will be so effective that He does eventually conquer and reign in each and every heart, for love and goodness to ultimately reign in the end -in all of God's creatures?
 
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FineLinen

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Rockhead said:
I Am A Convinced Universalist -Dr. William Barclay-

Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at Glasgow University and the author of many Biblical commentaries and books, including a translation of the New Testament, "Barclay New Testament," and "The Daily Study Bible Series."

Gathered Into The Love Of God

I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God's offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification.

Gathered Into The Character Of God

Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. "Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery." Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, "so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all." Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is "to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness." Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way.

Not The Argument Of Others

But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation.

His Final Triumph: All In All

First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself" (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: "God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all" (Rom. 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:twenty-eight). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," and of Christ Jesus "who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:4-6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all.

Pruning To Cause Growth- Remedial Punishment

Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to put it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.

His Grace Has No Limits

Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe.

Ultimate And Complete Triumph

Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-twenty-eight). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God - and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father - he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.

[Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pg 65-67, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]

The Priestly Work Of Jesus Christ

Many Witnesses One Lord -William Barclay-

http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showbook?item_id=1112
Hi there Rockhead....Dr. William Barclay is a remarkable triumph of our Father's grace! Thank-you for the link, it demonstrates some of his wonderful work.

Throughout history, the seal and hallmark of every authentic interaction of man with the Lord Most High has been profound, life-altering humility.
[move]"The creation was made subject to slavery, not willingly, but by the will of Him who has subjected the same in hope.[/move]

And the hope is?

"That in the end, the whole of created life shall be delivered/ rescued from the tyranny of slavery into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
 
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BaLou

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SFBay said:
I have to disagree. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The Bible (both OT and NT) makes it pretty clear that Hell is a real place, and that those who reject Jesus will spend eternity there.

I believe in a literal, fire and brimstone Hell, although that isn't the worst part about it. The worst part is eternal seperation from God.
I can't say that this is a loving God. If such a God created an awful place, you bet I'd want to be seperated from it.
 
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Rev. Smith

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seebs said:
I cannot quite rule out the possibility of some people successfully resisting all grace. But I don't know how many, or for how long, or what happens.
I'll allow the possibility as well, but that would be one, hardcore, desciple of darkness to resist the Grace of God, offered by God - in person. I hope I NEVER meet that guy.
 
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BaLou

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seebs said:
I cannot quite rule out the possibility of some people successfully resisting all grace. But I don't know how many, or for how long, or what happens.
That's an agnostic position that I happen to agree with. We just don't know, do we?
 
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