Universalism

[brinley45cal]

Ok so i can go kill someone and not repent of it and still go to heaven? hhuumm interisting.

 

[covenant914]

Ok so i can go kill someone and not repent of it and still go to heaven? hhuumm interisting.

Someone should learn to read better and save the snide comments.

The realization and recognization and acceptance of God's love, even after death, would automatically include and impart knowledge of the hurt that we caused in our lives and of the joy we brought in people's lives. God's love would lead us to repentance and take us to full communion with God.

Just like the partial knowledge we have here on Earth attempts to.
Once Jesus is accepted into a person's heart and they grow in love and in Christ - do they not repent of all the hurt caused?

This did not need to be said.

 

[Received]

Quite right. We forget that our selves are not static in the sense of identity. The one who kills is rightly called a killer. Thus, to get to heaven implies a sense of not-killing. This is accessed through repentance. And this is possible through the love of God.

 

[jonny_darko]

I believe in universal salvation, but also in something like the Catholic purgatory. I believe it is hell not to know God, whether in this life or the next, and I believe that one leaves hell (or purgatory) when one comes to know God.

This to me somewhat resolves the question about the murderer.

Fundamentally, though, murder is not even an issue with universal salvation; murder is already covered (scandalous as it seems) by the fact that we are saved by faith and not works.

 

[IOMEGAI]

This present Reality & Life is about Tests & Lessons, for we who are truly of our shared humanity are individual beings of our individual supreme being, who are exploring evil in a test of our true individual inner spiritual nature, as we individually and collectively as one humanity all develop towards a higher state of spiritual being. Whatever circumstance or situation you find yourself, it is all about testing and assessing the nature of your true inner being. Those who have failed will be exposed by our Great LORD to the rest of our humanity and shall burn upon the rapture of the new dawn. These vile people will never ever be part of the Kingdom of GOD that will found within the compassionate hearts of those who be truly of our humanity, for they would have failed to build the Temple of GOD within themselves.

Those who Witness the Truth of their GOD and survive Armageddon, are of the majority and who good common decent people of many cultures and religious beliefs on our world, shall be given the free choice of will to surrender themselves wholly to their Great LORD and claim their Great LORD as their only true spiritual saviour and protector of their life. And thus be able to recieve the gift of everlasting life and individual being belief forever within, that be both the Glory & Kingdom of GOD. For know that our LORD is not exclusive to just a few on our world, but is available for all common decent people who wish to be a person that is exclusivley One with GOD.

For when you surrender to YOUR Great LORD, you are actually surrendering to your own true greater overall individual being, the flame and the true light that is within you who be the individual HOSTS of our Great LORD. For at the moment it seems that a lot of people cannot understand that our Great LORD and the True Kingdom of GOD will be found Within Yourself. And that when you surrender & claim your LORD as your own, you are not surrendering to another separate person, you actually are truly surrendering to your own true self, and shall finally have true peace, liberty and freedom of your individual life forever shared as one humanity all that be harmony all.

IOMEGAI

"To be a warrior, one must try to be truthful every moment of your life"

Crazy Wisdom

 

[Pink Angel]

Quite right. We forget that our selves are not static in the sense of identity. The one who kills is rightly called a killer. Thus, to get to heaven implies a sense of not-killing. This is accessed through repentance. And this is possible through the love of God.

So are you saying that killing is ok as long as you repent? What about abortion?

I ask this because I myself am Pro-life and if you say abortion is wrong than killin all togethor is wrong as well, I believe killing someone is not 100% ok in God's eyes ya we can ask forgivness but that still lies on the person himself and God will not let that person get away scott-free, it is wrong no matter how you look at it

 

[covenant914]

Pink Angel,

Please feel free to use punctuation. It makes it easier for the rest of us to understand you and appreciate your comments.

First of all,

I myself am Pro-choice and if you say abortion is wrong than killin all togethor is wrong as well

Don't get defensive about being pro-choice. No one here is talking about abortion.

Another thing,

God will not let that person get away scott-free

One of the basic tenets of Christianity is that, once someone accepts Christ as Lord and Savior then, all sins are forgiven. That would include murder. Therefore, murderers that are also Christian do get away scot-free.

Now, another of the tenets of Christianity is that we should be more like Christ, which would prohibit murder (Golden Rule and all) but if we are saved by faith - not by works, then it goes to say we are damned by lack of faith - not by our works (sins).

Personnally, I think everyone is going to heaven. Sooner or later.

Lastly,

it is wrong no matter how you look at it

You are right, of course.

 

[goodnewsinc]

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YOU ARE A UNIVERSALIST. YOU ARE CONFUSED YOU CAN'T BE A UNIVERSALIST AND A LOVER OF GOD YOU SAY "GOD HAS SAID" ABOUT THINGS HE DID NOT SAY. MY BIBLE CALLS THAT BLASPHEMY!

Or are you saying no matter if God has mercy or if he hardens to a state of dishonor it is all the same in eternity, like the universalists say?
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My dear brother, "I do not say" .... the scriptures cited in the post say all that need to be said! You have been posting here now and you do not know that MOST OF US believe in USR? (Universal Salvation-Reconciliation) I am surprised. I consider it an HONOR to testify the truth of the LOVE, GRACE, MERCY, COMPASSION, AND FORGIVENESS of my Father as exemplified in Jesus Christ the Beloved Son! And I can do it from the Bible, The Apocrypha, and the Old Testament Apocrypha misnomered "pseudepigrapha"! There is nothing like OVERWHELMING proof for doubting and unbelieving eyes!

Enoch 10:15 And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore. 17 And then shall all the righteous escape, And shall live till they beget thousands of children, And all the days of their youth and their old age Shall they complete in peace. 18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and 19 be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield 20 ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth 21 destroy from off the earth. And the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations 22 shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever

Verification

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Secrets of Enoch 23:3 And Pravuil told me: 'All the things 4 that I have told thee, we have written. Sit and write all the souls of mankind, however many of them are born, and the places prepared for them 5 to eternity; for all souls are prepared to eternity, before the formation of the world.'

Verification

Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Enoch 61:1 And I saw in those days how long cords were given to those angels, and they took to themselves wings and flew, and they went towards the north. 2 And I asked the angel, saying unto him: 'Why have those (angels) taken these cords and gone off?' And he said unto me: 'They have gone to measure.' 3 And the angel who went with me said unto me: 'These shall bring the measures of the righteous, And the ropes of the righteous to the righteous, That they may stay themselves on the name of the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. 4 The elect shall begin to dwell with the elect, And those are the measures which shall be given to faith And which shall strengthen righteousness. 5 And these measures shall reveal all the secrets of the depths of the earth, And those who have been destroyed by the desert, And those who have been devoured by the beasts, And those who have been devoured by the fish of the sea, That they may return and stay themselves On the day of the Elect One; For none shall be destroyed before the Lord of Spirits, And none can be destroyed.

Ode of Solomon 8:4 Rise up, and stand erect, ye who sometime were brought low: 5 Tell forth ye who were in silence, that your mouth hath been opened. 6 Ye, therefore, that were despised be henceforth lifted up, because your righteousness hath been exalted. 7 For the right hand of the Lord is with you: and He is your helper: 8. And peace was prepared for you, before ever your war was. 9. Hear the word of truth, and receive the knowledge of the Most High. 10 Your flesh has not known what I am saying to you: neither have your hearts known what I am showing to you. 11 Keep. my secret, ye who are kept by it. l2 Keep my faith, ye who are kept by it. l3 And understand my knowledge, ye who know me in truth, 14 Love me with affection, ye who love! 15 For I do not turn away my face from them that are mine; 16 For I know them and before they came into being I took knowledge of them, and on their faces I set my seal: 17 I fashioned their members: my own breasts I prepared for them, that they might drink my holy milk and live thereby 18 I took pleasure in them and am not ashamed of them: 19 For my workmanship are they and the strength of my thoughts: 20 Who then shall rise up against my handiwork, or who is there that is not subject to them? 21 I willed and fashioned mind and heart: and they are mine, and by my own right hand I set my elect ones: 22 And my righteousness goeth before them and they shall not be deprived of my name, for it is with them.

Verification

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Wisdom of Solomon 2:21 So they (devils) argued, and very wrong they were; blinded by their own malevolence, 22 they did not understand God's hidden plan; they never expected that holiness of life would have its recompense; they thought that innocence 23 had no reward. But God created man for immortality, and made him 24 the image of his own eternal self; it was the devil's spite that brought death into the world, and the experience of it is reserved for those who take his side.

Verification

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

It is an honor to SHOW you why men celebrate the BIRTH of Jesus even though they have the wrong day and the wrong time of year!

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell inhim, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

I hope you do not feel that you became a member of the “wrong message board”! We have a POWERFUL WORD, as powerful as my Father is! It is irreversible LOVE!

Jeremiah 31:3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Romans 5:17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Romans 8:18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John,
GOOD NEWS, Inc

 

[covenant914]

Nice post.

 

[HomeBound]

Very nice goodnewsinc.

Although I'm an universalist, I believe people will be corrected in this earth for their sins against humanity, if not in this life, in the next.

And once people wake up and are no longer asleep, they will come to the realization that Jesus is the way, truth, life. And they will be made a pillar in the kingdom of God, never again having to leave.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

But I believe this is only possible with reincarnation.

 

[mfitch]

Hey I am in need of alot of help! I've gotten myself in to a mess it seems. I did a search for universalist forums on EZBoard and came up with an anti-fundamentalism site. i have been constantly debating them, but it seems as though everything I through at them gets dodged and completely denied. They are starting to come up with unprovable arguments like "Christianity is illogical because they all think that everyone else is going to hell..." etc. This is a problem, because I started off with a rebuttal of Universalist Philosophy and logic (explaining the logic problems in the parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant), and they ignore the logical things I say and tell me that I am not making sense. Then, when I have obviously made sense, they ignore it and pretend that they don't see what I'm saying! I could use some HELP!
(it's currently 3 people against me, and all of them are engaged in the debate to a certain extent)

The link is here in the title (it says I don't have enough posts, but I REALLY need help)

Thanks!

 

[Pink Angel]

Don't get defensive about being pro-choice. No one here is talking about abortion.

I wasnt getting defensive, but what i was saying is abortion is the same EXACT thing as killing a person, they are both living and innocent. So if one was to have an abortion then they would be killing someone.

There is ALWAYS a punishment for sin, whether it be in this life or the next(purgetory, but i wont get into that; that will be another thread) But getting away with the sin scott free is saying that a person can kill and have a good life. The killer WILL be punished for his choices, the Bible promises it.

I just have one question....

One of the basic tenets of Christianity is that, once someone accepts Christ as Lord and Savior then, all sins are forgiven. That would include murder. Therefore, murderers that are also Christian do get away scot-free.

Now, another of the tenets of Christianity is that we should be more like Christ, which would prohibit murder (Golden Rule and all) but if we are saved by faith - not by works, then it goes to say we are damned by lack of faith - not by our works (sins).

If we could all get "saved" and sin all we want knowing all we have to do is ask forgivness, and get away with it. Then why would the Bible make such a big deal about it, when you can just be forgiven and move on like it never happend?

Scriptural Evidance that someone could not get away with sin scott-free:

Adam and Eve did not continue to live in the Garden of Eden after confessing their sins. Nope they were banned from the Garden, bc of Eve women will forever endure the pain of child birth as well as having periods.(dont mean to be graffic there). If you say that we can ask forgiveness and get away scott-free, then how come Adam and Eve didnt?

Personnally, I think everyone is going to heaven. Sooner or later.

Then what was the point of Christ dieing on the cross?


God Bless,
Pink Angel

 

[john14_20]

Then what was the point of Christ dieing on the cross?


God Bless,
Pink Angel

Every time someone says that everyone will be in Heaven, somebody else always asks this question.

I just don't understand how everyone being in Heaven can be viewed as taking away from Christ's work.

Nobody will be in Heaven at all except for those people that the work of Christ has placed there.

So everyone being in Heaven just makes Christ's work bigger than we give it credit for. It does not render it invalid!

Blessings to all, Pete

 

[covenant914]

Thanks Pete, again.

Pink,

My statement about Christianity is countered by your example about Adam and Eve. Just a little before Christ.
A statement about OT Judaism by me would have definitely included an earthly punishment for sins. That's why Job was so mad.

 

[enoch son]

I post in another thead on this site. And it my frist time here. I'm a all saved NO FREE WILL and hell is not what people think kind of guy.

 

[enoch son]

I post in another thead on this site. And it my frist time here. I'm a all saved NO FREE WILL and hell is not what people think kind of guy.

 

[enoch son]

I post in another thead on this site. And it my frist time here. I'm a all saved NO FREE WILL and hell is not what people think kind of guy.

 

[enoch son]

I'm sorry I missed this thead for the Lord has shown me many thing's on this matter.

 

[covenant914]

like how to repeat posts?

give us your wisdom

 

[enoch son]

Your pofile say's it all doesn't it.