Universalism VS. Scripture

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

Lilly of the Valley said:
How is accepting grace a work? You can't boast in that because God gives you the grace, you merely accept it.

You can boast that you accepted it soonest, most strenuously.

Acceptance is something you do or do not do. That's what "a work" is. Something you do or don't do. A verb. An action you take. It's not an adjective or a noun, it's a verb, an action word, something which one does or does not do.

Charlie

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

loriersea said:
Lilly, I'm sure you've seen the boasting that goes along with the idea of "accepting" God's grace. It's the boasting that comes when you claim that others don't accept God's grace because they love sin, they don't want to obey God, they are under Satan's power. What does that mean? It means *you*, the one who did "accept" God's grace, hate sin, want to obey God, and are free from the lure of Satan. I'd say that's boasting.

Great answer loriersea!

I'd boost your rep again, but for the dreaded message "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to loriersea again."

Charlie

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

flautist said:
By "accepting" the grace, you are performing an action. An action is a work.

Grace is something like love. If you love your enemy, and your enemy does not accept that love, does that change the fact that your enemy HAS your love?

Great answer flautist -- I boosted your rep!

Charlie

ottaia · Nov 11, 2005

loriersea said:
Lilly, I'm sure you've seen the boasting that goes along with the idea of "accepting" God's grace. It's the boasting that comes when you claim that others don't accept God's grace because they love sin, they don't want to obey God, they are under Satan's power. What does that mean? It means *you*, the one who did "accept" God's grace, hate sin, want to obey God, and are free from the lure of Satan. I'd say that's boasting.

I tried to rep you also, but no go.

Rae · Nov 11, 2005

ottaia said:
I tried to rep you also, but no go.

Don't worry. It's been taken care of.

elman · Nov 11, 2005

flautist said:
By "accepting" the grace, you are performing an action. An action is a work.

Grace is something like love. If you love your enemy, and your enemy does not accept that love, does that change the fact that your enemy HAS your love?

God does not see work as a dirty word. We are all supposed to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling. Even when Paul said we were saved by grace and not by works he was not saying good works or loving actions were bad. It is not just OK to perform a loving action. It is a command from God that we do so.

Lilly of the Valley · Nov 11, 2005

loriersea said:
Lilly, I'm sure you've seen the boasting that goes along with the idea of "accepting" God's grace. It's the boasting that comes when you claim that others don't accept God's grace because they love sin, they don't want to obey God, they are under Satan's power. What does that mean? It means *you*, the one who did "accept" God's grace, hate sin, want to obey God, and are free from the lure of Satan. I'd say that's boasting.

That's not boasting, that's stating that I along w/ others accepted His grace. You are assuming I'm saying this and that when I was saying people need to accept His grace/sacrifice. How on earth is that boasting? If you don't accpet His grace or forgiveness you can't be forgiven. It says in the Bible not all will go to heaven and you must have faith. You don't have it, then forget it.

There are people that reject His grace and forgiveness, just in case you haven't looked around at the world, it's clear as day that people havent. They are lost and until they accept it, they are doomed to hell. Says in the Bible. I'm going by what God says. You can't just sit around and do nothing, you do something. Your faith is shown by your works. You can't have just works or just faith. They work together (in the Bible).

Also, accepting God's grace isn't something you boast about. It's something everyone has a choice to do. You either accept God or not. If you don't then you have to face the consequences.

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

Lilly of the Valley said:
That's not boasting, that's stating that I along w/ others accepted His grace.

Okay, giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you don't boast about your great work of acceptance.

Others can. Because it's a work.

If it's a work, it's no longer grace.

Charlie

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

Lilly of the Valley said:
If you don't accpet His grace or forgiveness you can't be forgiven.

Untrue.

Christ said on the cross, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

He didn't say, "Forgive them Father, but not until they know what they do, and accept my grace. Until then, don't forgive them."

Besides, forgiveness is not something that requires acceptance.

Suppose you hurt me. May be you scratched my car.

"You scratched my car, but that's okay. I forgive you," I say.

"No! You can't forgive me! I refuse to accept your forgiving me."

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. I can forgive you, and it's not in your power to un-forgive yourself by refusing to accept the fact that I've forgiven you. You do not have power over my forgiveness, you can't take my forgiveness away from me by refusing to accept it, and we don't have powerto take God's forgiveness away from Him by refusing to accept it.

One more thing:

You're assuming there's something God can't do. So God's not omnipotent?

Charlie

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

Lilly of the Valley said:
Also, accepting God's grace isn't something you boast about.

You know what? I accepted God's grace, and I'm mighty proud of it!

There I was, out in the front of all the other people, proudly proclaiming my acceptance! I was the loudest proclaimer of my acceptance, and there were some people who didn't even accept at all, they were so below me.

I'm the greatest acceptor there is! I was first in line to accept the grace, and I accepted in the most eliquent way. I even wrote God a poem of acceptance, and my acceptance poem won awards as the best acceptance speech of the best acceptance of the best acceptor that ever lived!

Of course, I didn't say any of the above, none of those words came off of my keyboard, because it's physically impossible to boast of acceptance, like I just did.

Charlie

Charlie V · Nov 11, 2005

Lilly of the Valley said:
They are lost and until they accept it, they are doomed to hell. Says in the Bible. I'm going by what God says.

Funny, I did a Bible search and no where in the Bible does the phrase "They are lost and until they accept it, they are doomed to hell." appear.

Here are a few phrases that are in the Bible:

John 4:42 this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

1 Johh 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.

1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Tim 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 5:18 Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.

Charlie

ottaia · Nov 11, 2005

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that we must accept Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior?

Mailman Dan · Nov 11, 2005

By "accepting" the grace, you are performing an action. An action is a work.

And one thing Liberals always try to get out of, is work..

The bible says unless you repent, you will perish.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Luke 13:5
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Jesus repeated something..it must be important...

2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

Where does one draw the doctrine that says you don't need to repent or trust in Christ to be saved?

Dan~~~>let this thread go for awhile

katallasso · Nov 11, 2005

Mailman,

Now who said we don't believe in repentance? Just a s Jesus told Nicodemus, we must be born again to receive the kingdom. We just believe that eventually "ALL" will do just that.

Becky

Lilly of the Valley · Nov 11, 2005

Something to throw out there:

By accepting grace, you are saying you are sinful and need God.

By rejecting it you are saying that you don't need God and possibly even that you don't sin.

Now, accepting grace doesn't seem too boastful to me, if anything it's humble, because you admit you need help and aren't perfect and you need God. If anything, rejecting it is kind of boasting in yourself of not needing God.

somasoma77 · Nov 11, 2005

If your mind is not universal, you will never understand it. If your mind always goes to hell and not the joy of our Lord Jesus Christ or Almighty God who dispels darkness. You guessed it your mind is in hell. I pray you can praise the Lord and forget about satan and hell.

Lilly of the Valley · Nov 11, 2005

somasoma77 said:
If your mind is not universal, you will never understand it. If your mind always goes to hell and not the joy of our Lord Jesus Christ or Almighty God who dispels darkness. You guessed it your mind is in hell. I pray you can praise the Lord and forget about satan and hell.

You need to know the severity and goodness of God. He is loving and wonderful, but also doesn't play w/ sin and will judge it. You need respect, reverence and love of Him. Unless you have both, your view will be warped. You can't just take the positive and forget the other half, because that's reality to and not just meant to be skipped over, but heeded and used to avoid it.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

FLANDIDLYANDERS · Nov 11, 2005

Lilly of the Valley said:
You need to know the severity and goodness of God. He is loving and wonderful, but also doesn't play w/ sin and will judge it. .

I prefer "obedience" and "disobedience". Such phrases represent a personal, accountable christianity. "SIN" is abused to mean "what we say the Bible says" or "culturally wrong" or just plain devisive and condemnatory!

Play with sin? What does that mean. God does not play dice, true...

Lilly of the Valley · Nov 11, 2005

FLANDIDLYANDERS said:
I prefer "obedience" and "disobedience". Such phrases represent a personal, accountable christianity. "SIN" is abused to mean "what we say the Bible says" or "culturally wrong" or just plain devisive and condemnatory!

Play with sin? What does that mean. God does not play dice, true...

Disobedience is sin. Sin is anything that goes agaisnt God, and it's not hard to tell what sin is. If your conscience is tender then God will often times convict you of sin, if you actually read His word.

In otherwords, God doesn't joke around w/ sin. He will judge it, not just let it go forever.

AndreLinoge · Nov 11, 2005

How does one "accept" grace?

Universalism VS. Scripture

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