Universal reconciliation

[jugghead]

↑
whether we live in the one wrong choice or a lifetime of wrong choices, it is still a life of sin which causes death

but to live in the one right choice we find we can do no wrong which brings life

I wrote the following , as I read it again this morning, my perspective of it changed:

It was new when I wrote it but it now has become old:

whether we live in the one wrong choice or a lifetime of wrong choices, it is still a life of sin which causes death
but to live in the one right choice we find we can do no wrong which brings life

whether we live in the one wrong spirit (Adam) or a lifetime of wrong spirits (Legion), it is still a life of sin which causes death
but to live in the one right spirit (Christ) we find we do no wrong which brings life

He never ceases to amaze me

Adam is to legion as Christ is to multitude/Heavenly Host

as we continue to enter deeper into the ever expanding land, with each step we take ... another messenger/angel is sent to us so we can continue to walk in Him

To live in a spirit of choice is to take thought

Every end is a new beginning

 

[Der Alte]

...No, if what you post contradicts what the bible defines as good character, I will disagree with it.

i.e. If the bible depicts God as the opposite of your depiction of God through doctrine, I will disagree with your teaching.

Do these passages support your "depiction of God through doctrine?"

Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

2Ch 32:21 And the LORD sent an angel, which cut off all the mighty men of valour, and the leaders and captains in the camp of the king of Assyria. So he returned with shame of face to his own land. And when he was come into the house of his god, they that came forth of his own bowels slew him there with the sword.

Act 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he [Herod] gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Jer 13:14 And I will dash them [Israel and Judah] one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. ​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do these passages support your "depiction of God through doctrine?"

Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

2Ch 32:21 And the LORD sent an angel, which cut off all the mighty men of valour, and the leaders and captains in the camp of the king of Assyria. So he returned with shame of face to his own land. And when he was come into the house of his god, they that came forth of his own bowels slew him there with the sword.

Act 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he [Herod] gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Jer 13:14 And I will dash them [Israel and Judah] one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. ​

I note that your passages are Old Testament passages or referring to Old Testament events.

I refer to.,

Ephesians Chapter 3
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Your imagination of who God is from the bible, and my imagination of who God is from the bible, God is able to do more than we can imagine. So on one hand God could have an eternal torture chamber prepared for those who did not desire him, but then what kind of eternity would that be? If God is truly like that? (now live in that question, i'm not finished thinking this through yet) And on the other hand, God could take this idea of Ultimate reconciliation .. and do way more than anyone could imagine in that direction. So in interest of being judged with mercy .. i'd rather be wrong if I were to think of God being first of all merciful, than wrong and imagining God is more like some dictator that enjoys torturing people.

 

[Der Alte]

I note that your passages are Old Testament passages or referring to Old Testament events.

And your point is?

I refer to.,

Ephesians Chapter 3
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

And your point is?

Your imagination of who God is from the bible, and my imagination of who God is from the bible, God is able to do more than we can imagine. So on one hand God could have an eternal torture chamber prepared for those who did not desire him, but then what kind of eternity would that be?

Read the scriptures I quoted, I "imagined" nothing?

If God is truly like that? (now live in that question, i'm not finished thinking this through yet) And on the other hand, God could take this idea of Ultimate reconciliation .. and do way more than anyone could imagine in that direction. So in interest of being judged with mercy .. i'd rather be wrong if I were to think of God being first of all merciful, than wrong and imagining God is more like some dictator that enjoys torturing people.

So just throw out the scriptures you don't like, the ones that don't support your assumptions/presuppositions and imagine a god that never seeks vengeance, never punishes, never harms people in any way.

Deu 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Deu 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

Jdg 11:36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

Psa 94:1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself.

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Jer 51:36 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will plead thy cause, and take vengeance for thee; and I will dry up her sea, and make her springs dry.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And your point is?



And your point is?



Read the scriptures I quoted, I "imagined" nothing?



So just throw out the scriptures you don't like, the ones that don't support your assumptions/presuppositions and imagine a god that never seeks vengeance, never punishes, never harms people in any way.

Deu 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Deu 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

Jdg 11:36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

Psa 94:1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself.

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Jer 51:36 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will plead thy cause, and take vengeance for thee; and I will dry up her sea, and make her springs dry.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.​

My point is, we're not going to agree with one another once again. I appreciate your quoting of scripture.

My basis of understanding the scripture is that there are weightier matters and greater commandments which give the scripture a geometry, something is written, yes. but the issue is, what takes priority? Jesus gave us a list of priorities, I'm listening to those.

 

[Der Alte]

My point is, we're not going to agree with one another once again. I appreciate your quoting of scripture.

My basis of understanding the scripture is that there are weightier matters and greater commandments which give the scripture a geometry, something is written, yes. but the issue is, what takes priority? Jesus gave us a list of priorities, I'm listening to those.

So you just ignore scripture which does not support your UR "geometry" assumptions/presuppositions? As I said before, maybe my posts are not solely for your benefit. I have been at this forum for more than 10 years and I learned a long time ago that there are some so entrenched in their beliefs that I will never reach them but I can reach those on the fence, having doubts, thinking about joining or quitting one of those unorthodox theology groups. And I have had some success. So I will keep spreading the word as I have done from one coast to the other and overseas.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So you just ignore scripture which does not support your UR "geometry" assumptions/presuppositions? As I said before, maybe my posts are not solely for your benefit. I have been at this forum for more than 10 years and I learned a long time ago that there are some so entrenched in their beliefs that I will never reach them but I can reach those on the fence, having doubts, thinking about joining or quitting one of those unorthodox theology groups. And I have had some success. So I will keep spreading the word as I have done from one coast to the other and overseas.

I'm not really sure how to proceed, you are discussing me, not the scriptural arguments that I am bringing up. In any case you haven't convinced me with your rhetoric, I have continued in conversation to explain why the kind of interpretation that you are providing is not Godly enough for me. It is fine if you do not understand, but I do appreciate the dialogue, as I have been where you are at a previous time in my life I was not expecting to convince you of anything. The way we approach the bible is entirely different.

 

[2KnowHim]

So you just ignore scripture which does not support your UR "geometry" assumptions/presuppositions? As I said before, maybe my posts are not solely for your benefit. I have been at this forum for more than 10 years and I learned a long time ago that there are some so entrenched in their beliefs that I will never reach them but I can reach those on the fence, having doubts, thinking about joining or quitting one of those unorthodox theology groups. And I have had some success. So I will keep spreading the word as I have done from one coast to the other and overseas.

Just so the readers know, you base your Knowing Him on Knowing the scriptures, ours is based on Relationship.....Huge Difference.

 

[Der Alte]

Just so the readers know, you base your Knowing Him on Knowing the scriptures, ours is based on Relationship.....Huge Difference.

Thank you for this false, unsolicited and irrelevant opinion. Without the scripture and an understanding of them one cannot have a relationship with the author of those scriptures.

 

[Der Alte]

So you just ignore scripture which does not support your UR "geometry" assumptions/presuppositions? As I said before, maybe my posts are not solely for your benefit. I have been at this forum for more than 10 years and I learned a long time ago that there are some so entrenched in their beliefs that I will never reach them but I can reach those on the fence, having doubts, thinking about joining or quitting one of those unorthodox theology groups. And I have had some success. So I will keep spreading the word as I have done from one coast to the other and overseas.

I'm not really sure how to proceed, you are discussing me, not the scriptural arguments that I am bringing up. In any case you haven't convinced me with your rhetoric, I have continued in conversation to explain why the kind of interpretation that you are providing is not Godly enough for me. It is fine if you do not understand, but I do appreciate the dialogue, as I have been where you are at a previous time in my life I was not expecting to convince you of anything. The way we approach the bible is entirely different.

Where am I talking about you? The first sentence is a question. "So you just ignore scripture which does not support your UR "geometry" assumptions/presuppositions?" That's what it appears to be to me, so I asked for clarification.

 

[SarahsKnight]

So in interest of being judged with mercy .. i'd rather be wrong if I were to think of God being first of all merciful, than wrong and imagining God is more like some dictator that enjoys torturing people.

Pretty much how I see it, brother.

 

[jugghead]

To those who are reading this thread and do not know what to believe, ET or UR, be careful that you are not just listening to another warden who wants to transfer you to his prison.

 

[Der Alte]

To those who are reading this thread and do not know what to believe, ET or UR, be careful that you are not just listening to another warden who wants to transfer you to his prison.

This is the equivalent of saying, "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!"

 

[jugghead]

Just so the readers know, you base your Knowing Him on Knowing the scriptures, ours is based on Relationship.....Huge Difference.

To expand on this is: our understanding is based on relationship because we do not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedth out of the mouth of God

and if knowing Him is based only on knowing scripture, the Pharisees knew scripture but did not recognize Christ and did not have a relationship with Him, therefore they died in their sins

 

[jugghead]

To Der Alter, why did you even respond to what I posted, it was not even addressed to you, it was addressed to those who are not sure what to believe ....... and I will add this, the spirit of pride will not let a man admit he is wrong, I myself will gladly admit to ANYONE that I might be wrong, even to you I will admit this, but this is why we will say go directly to the source to find out the truth and the ONE TRUE source is God Himself not another man .... and that includes me

 

[Wgw]

To Der Alter, why did you even respond to what I posted, it was not even addressed to you, it was addressed to those who are not sure what to believe ....... and I will add this, the spirit of pride will not let a man admit he is wrong, I myself will gladly admit to ANYONE that I might be wrong, even to you I will admit this, but this is why we will say go directly to the source to find out the truth and the ONE TRUE source is God Himself not another man

But its presumptious to a certain extent to believe you experience divine personal revelations...you are basically elevating yourself to the rank of a Prophet.

The devil can and does actively impersonate God.

We ultimately have two reliable sources of information about our faith: the Bible, and the traditions of the Apostles and Fathers.

 

[Der Alte]

To Der Alter, why did you even respond to what I posted, it was not even addressed to you, it was addressed to those who are not sure what to believe ....... and I will add this, the spirit of pride will not let a man admit he is wrong, I myself will gladly admit to ANYONE that I might be wrong, even to you I will admit this, but this is why we will say go directly to the source to find out the truth and the ONE TRUE source is God Himself not another man

I'm the only non-UR who has posted here for the last two days, I must assume that you were talking to me. I have seen God move in marvelous ways many, many times and I am absolutely sure of what to believe. That is correct the ONE TRUE source God Himself not you or any other man. You evidently think that you have a monopoly on the truth and that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. You seem to assume that anyone who doesn't accept your interpretation of scripture does not have a relationship with the Lord.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Where am I talking about you? The first sentence is a question. "So you just ignore scripture which does not support your UR "geometry" assumptions/presuppositions?" That's what it appears to be to me, so I asked for clarification.

Well, I've seen how you respond to my posts, I'm not entirely sure that you're capable of understanding my viewpoint. I appreciate the dialogue, I may try again some other time.

 

[Der Alte]

Well, I've seen how you respond to my posts, I'm not entirely sure that you're capable of understanding my viewpoint. I appreciate the dialogue, I may try again some other time.

You accuse me of talking about you, then you insult me "I'm not entirely sure that you're capable of understanding my viewpoint." If you try again some other time, you'll be talking to yourself. Bye!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You accuse me of talking about you, then you insult me "I'm not entirely sure that you're capable of understanding my viewpoint." If you try again some other time, you'll be talking to yourself. Bye!

Farewell .