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Oh but yes it does. You would know this if you had actually read my post. I even highlighted the pertinent phrases.
I have always provided an argument and supported my arguments with credible, verifiable, historical evidence. In the post you are blowing off as "irrelevant cut & paste quotes" the only thing quoted was eight (8) citations from Origen and two citations from the UR supreme authority tents-я-us which evidently completely destroy the UR arguments in this forum.Yes it does, no it doesn't, yes it does, no it doesn't.
If you had actually provided an argument using your own words, instead of irrelevant cut & paste quotes, then i would refute it. That's explains why you don't.
The only "bluster" in my post was two citations from the UR ultimate authority tents-я-us which quite evidently is only window dressing. The two tents-я-us articles explain hyperbole in the Bible. It must be bluster because all the UR arguments I have encountered only recognize hyperbole when it appears to support UR doctrines and reject hyperbole when it contradicts UR teachings.Instead just more bluster.
I have always provided an argument [snip]
I will consider this an admission of defeat. I have posted irrefutable evidence from scripture and the UR poster boy Origen which shows, beyond question, that both Paul and Origen understood that αἰώνιος/aionios means eternal. And since posting that irrefutable evidence all I see is false accusations.Still no argument in your own words.
Just cut & paste quotes & boasting about refuting blah blah, etc & more blah.
I will consider this an admission of defeat. I have posted irrefutable evidence from scripture and the UR poster boy Origen which shows, beyond question, that both Paul and Origen understood that αἰώνιος/aionios means eternal. And since posting that irrefutable evidence all I see is false accusations.
I quote directly from the writings of Origen the UR poster boy, and I properly identify which specific work I quoted from. I quote exactly what he said. The responses I see are bits and pieces of what Origen supposedly said and believed, more than likely copy/pasted from tents-я-us. You actually provided an argument of irrelevant cut & paste quotes, which I have refuted. Thirteen (13) times in the quotes I posted Origen quotes from or refers to 2 Corinthians 4;17-18 and 2 Corinthians 5:1.Still no argument in your own words.
Origen the universalist spoke of "after aionios life", an end of all aions, an end of "ages of the ages", etc. He certainly understood from ancient usage that olam, aion and aionios are used of finite periods of time, durations that have a beginning and an end.
Second hand quotes from tents-я-us are not evidence of anything but the bias of the people who maintain the site.You have already been given, a number of times, evidence supporting this:
Irrelevant. See these two quotes from Tents–r-us.Origen the universalist spoke of "after aionios life", an end of all aions, an end of "ages of the ages", etc. He certainly understood from ancient usage that olam, aion and aionios are used of finite periods of time, durations that have a beginning and an end.
I don't have to, I have posted the only evidence where Origen defines what he means by aionios 13 times. But If you would read my Origen post you would see that I did.Also you haven't proven anything re Origen's use of aionios in any context.
I quote directly from the writings of Origen the UR poster boy,
Second hand quotes from tents-я-us are not evidence of anything but the bias of the people who maintain the site.
AFIK you have never quoted anything directly from any of Origen's writing, they were all bits and pieces from tents-я-us. Hint: do what I do, at least quote complete sentences and give the name of the work, book, chapter, section etc. Saying "Origen spoke of 'after aionios life,''an end of all aions,''an end of ages of the ages", etc." doesn't mean anything.They weren't second hand quotes.
Which has nothing to do with all mankind's eternal fate and you know it.Quote Origen all you like. I'll quote Scripture supporting universalism:
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's
work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
AFIK you have never quoted anything directly from any of Origen's writing, [snip]
Which has nothing to do with all mankind's eternal fate and you know it.
So by you saying this am I to understand that you will not be spamming the forum with any more irrelevant copy/pastes from tents-я-us? Virtually everything you quote is out-of-context as this unidentified verse is. What did Jesus say about this?Been there, done that. Search the forum. I'll quote Scripture which BTW is in the title of this thread, not church fathers, Jews, Pharisees.
28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming
Virtually everything you quote is out-of-context as this unidentified verse is. What did Jesus say about this?
Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And what did Paul say?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
(5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
That verse must be missing from my Bible where did Jesus say "Shall not be forgiven until they repent? Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything by quoting pieces of verses cramming them together with other pieces of verses.Yup. Not until they repent & cease being unrighteous, but righteous "in Christ":
All men are literal descendants of Adam so by nature we are "in Adam" but all men are not in Christ. Why did you omit this vs.?1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive...
Just because it is "for all mankind" that does not mean "all mankind" will accept it.Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."
"The many" not "the all!" I get lots of offers "just for me" but I don't accept them.Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
The usual link to tents-я-us but when I quote from them you ignore it. Why is that?tentmakers.org
Scholar's corner
That verse must be missing from my Bible where did Jesus say "Shall not be forgiven until they repent?
Right there is where you should have stopped. Paul did not say anything like "until they get righteous." In order to make UR work you have to take pieces of verses all over the Bible and patch them together to make it say what you want.The passages you quoted were from Paul's epistles. They say the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
In 1 Cor 6:11 was Paul preaching to the dead in graves or were they still alive? He was talking to living people who had been unrighteous and while they were still alive they became righteous. Now please explain to me how you can make that verse equal UR?That means while they are unrighteous. In 1 Cor.6:11 he says some of the Corinthians were the unrighteous that he described in verse 9-10. But through repentance & faith in Christ they were changed from unrighteousness & able to enter the Kingdom of God.
Fail nothing same ol' twisting vss. out-of-context. There is no time restrictions? That is correct as long as they are living they can do exactly as the Corinthians did. But,So there is nothing in the passages you cited that forbids the unrighteous from entering the kingdom of God the same way that the Corinthians did. No time restriction is put on repentance in those verses. So those verses provide no evidence against universalism. They fail in that regard. Try some other verses & watch them fail also.
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