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You don't think that the NT refers to the body of Christ? While eclessia often refers to individual congregations, there are places where it seems to refer to all of Christ's people, e.g. Mat 16:18, Act 9:31. I'm not a great fan of calling it invisible, but the term is a technical one meaning that its exact membership isn't known.
Sure--just as it would if tomorrow I picked up my Bible and thought that it was saying there is no heaven, no soul, and/or no God. What's the point of the question?Would your life change if you woke up tomorrow, read your Bible, and realized, like me, that there is no such thing as an "invisible church"?
Yes or no.
Your word study and the claim that you can't find 'it' in the Bible have led you down a blind alley. The Bible also doesn't use the words Trinity, Millennium, Rapture, Sacrament, and many, many other terms that we use in order to refer quickly to various concepts that certainly ARE in the Bible. Do you therefore conclude that they don't exist, aren't Scriptural, or have no importance to a Christian?A word study reveals that church almost always means a tangible local gathering. The other times it's used have other explanations other than things invisible.
Your word study and the claim that you can't find 'it' in the Bible have led you down a blind alley. The Bible also doesn't use the words Trinity, Millennium, Rapture, Sacrament, and many, many other terms that we use in order to refer quickly to various concepts that certainly ARE in the Bible. Do you therefore conclude that they don't exist, aren't Scriptural, or have no importance to a Christian?
I'm looking at the results of a search on "church." The majority of uses seem to be a specific local church. But there are times when it means everybody. I thought we all used a creed that talks about the holy catholic Church. This is just a weird argument. The only other time I've heard it has been with Catholics, where it's "no the Church isn't invisible. It's identical to Catholic Church." (upper-case C, meaning all churches in communion with Rome.)A word study reveals that church almost always means a tangible local gathering. The other times it's used have other explanations other than things invisible.
I'm looking at the results of a search on "church." The majority of uses seem to be a specific local church. But there are times when it means everybody. I thought we all used a creed that talks about the holy catholic Church. This is just a weird argument. The only other time I've heard it has been with Catholics, where it's "no the Church isn't invisible. It's identical to Catholic Church." (upper-case C, meaning all churches in communion with Rome.)
What's not true?That's not true.
So does being a part of Christ's church.Al of those things have an impact on your life.
No, and I don't attend the monthly meeting of humankind, my political conservatism, my love for music, or my German ancestry. As a matter of fact, most of the value systems you or I adhere to are not capsulized into some organization with a Constitution and By Laws that holds membership meetings.The so called invisible church does not. That's my point. You pray because there is a God. You give up earthly riches because there is a Heaven, but you don't attend monthly meeting of the "invisible church".
Yes, but many o f these terms involve a further interpretation of Scripture and the considerable use of extra-biblical material. For example, Scripture implies a Trinity, true. However, it does not work it out in any real detail. Hence, the Trinitarian formulations use loads of extra-biblical materials and concepts, such as "substance," which comes from Hellenic metaphysics.Your word study and the claim that you can't find 'it' in the Bible have led you down a blind alley. The Bible also doesn't use the words Trinity, Millennium, Rapture, Sacrament, and many, many other terms that we use in order to refer quickly to various concepts that certainly ARE in the Bible. Do you therefore conclude that they don't exist, aren't Scriptural, or have no importance to a Christian?
I don't see how that changes anything. The point was that saying "it's not in the Bible" is true only if the word itself is not there. That is what Brian was arguing.Yes, but many o f these terms involve a further interpretation of Scripture and the considerable use of extra-biblical material. For example, Scripture implies a Trinity, true. However, it does not work it out in any real detail. Hence, the Trinitarian formulations use loads of extra-biblical materials and concepts, such as "substance," which comes from Hellenic metaphysics.
And there you go, Brian. Case closed.I'm looking at the results of a search on "church." The majority of uses seem to be a specific local church. But there are times when it means everybody. I thought we all used a creed that talks about the holy catholic Church.
Exactly.This is just a weird argument.
What's not true?
So does being a part of Christ's church.
No, and I don't attend the monthly meeting of humankind, my political conservatism, my love for music, or my German ancestry. As a matter of fact, most of the value systems you or I adhere to are not capsulized into some organization with a Constitution and By Laws that holds membership meetings.
And there you go, Brian. Case closed.
Exactly.
Because as Hedrick said -- better than I, apparently -- "church" has several different meanings, and it's virtually undeniable that one of them refers to what some Christians call the "invisible church."Why is the case closed? The creed?
It's also undeniable that Jesus referred to his church and wasn't speaking there of one congregation of the United Methodist Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Because as Hedrick said -- better than I, apparently -- "church" has several different meanings, and it's virtually undeniable that one of them refers to what some Christians call the "invisible church."
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