Unity on Essentials

[Koey]

I believe that the Christian Church is actually remarkably unified on the essentials of the faith. No matter how we define essentials, I think we would all agree that what Jesus said in his last instructions to the disciples to teach whatever he taught, is a good summary of what is essential.

So, that leaves out the nonsense over tongues, apostolic successionism, modes of baptism, teetotalling, genuflecting, or any other secondary (dare I say tertiary or less) idea of what defines Christianity.

I mean we all agree that what Jesus taught is the most important, don't we? I hope so.

I know we define ourselves as tongues speakers, apostolic successionists, baptists, teetotalers, or whatever. However, don't all those titles pale into insignificance in comparison to calling ourselves Christians? Doesn't the word Christian mean follower of Christ first?

Or are we more concerned with following Luther, Calvin, the pope, the Archbishop or Billy Graham first?

Are we not really remarkably unified after all?

 

[Chadsly]

I think the most common ground that we share is the apostle's creed. I believe it is a good summary of what Christians believe. And yes, I would hope that people would follow Christ as their Shepherd and not another sheep.

I believe that the Christian Church is actually remarkably unified on the essentials of the faith. No matter how we define essentials, I think we would all agree that what Jesus said in his last instructions to the disciples to teach whatever he taught, is a good summary of what is essential.

So, that leaves out the nonsense over tongues, apostolic successionism, modes of baptism, teetotalling, genuflecting, or any other secondary (dare I say tertiary or less) idea of what defines Christianity.

I mean we all agree that what Jesus taught is the most important, don't we? I hope so.

I know we define ourselves as tongues speakers, apostolic successionists, baptists, teetotalers, or whatever. However, don't all those titles pale into insignificance in comparison to calling ourselves Christians? Doesn't the word Christian mean follower of Christ first?

Or are we more concerned with following Luther, Calvin, the pope, the Archbishop or Billy Graham first?

Are we not really remarkably unified after all?

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

The problem I've always had with this is: Who decides what is essential doctrine and what is not? I would think that there are those, let's say in the Presbyterian camp who consider certain doctrines essential,that those in the Baptist camp may not consider essential if not down right heretical!!!!

 

[prodromos]

I think the most common ground that we share is the apostle's creed. I believe it is a good summary of what Christians believe.

Unfortunately each particular flavour of Christianity seems to interpret parts of the creed differently to others. We really only share the creed if we agree on its interpretation.

John

 

[SolomonVII]

I believe that the Christian Church is actually remarkably unified on the essentials of the faith. No matter how we define essentials, I think we would all agree that what Jesus said in his last instructions to the disciples to teach whatever he taught, is a good summary of what is essential.

So, that leaves out the nonsense over tongues, apostolic successionism, modes of baptism, teetotalling, genuflecting, or any other secondary (dare I say tertiary or less) idea of what defines Christianity.

I mean we all agree that what Jesus taught is the most important, don't we? I hope so.

I know we define ourselves as tongues speakers, apostolic successionists, baptists, teetotalers, or whatever. However, don't all those titles pale into insignificance in comparison to calling ourselves Christians? Doesn't the word Christian mean follower of Christ first?

Or are we more concerned with following Luther, Calvin, the pope, the Archbishop or Billy Graham first?

Are we not really remarkably unified after all?

There is a lot of common ground among Christians. Meditating on the Passion of Christ, and his Resurrection, contemplating the import of that redemptive work, and feeding upon his words cannot help but refocus a Christian's life upon that which is most important, and that which is most valuable.

There is value in listening to those of other Christian Traditions, because it is opbvious that the Holy Spirit is working within the Christian community as a whole, be it in the invisible, or what we Catholics might call the visible church.

And in the Holy Spirit there is unity.

The failings of Christianity do not come upon focussing upon what Christians in other traditions have got right, or upon what we share in common trust, which is much.

The failings comes most when we take it upon ourselves to pronounce each other wrong.

 

[InquisitorKind]

Are we not really remarkably unified after all?

No, we aren't. There are many denominations and groups which claim to be following Christ but are not. Unity with such is not possible. Additionally, if essentials are to be the basis, the majority of "Christian" groups are not unified. There is no unity between Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants, and often disunity within those groups.

As to the other comments about needing an authority to determine those doctrines, that only pushes the general issue back a step--which authority determines which authority is to determine doctrine?

~Matt

 

[Romanos]

While the concept of real Christian unity is an exciting one, I'd have to agree more with certain posters here that, sadly, Christianity is not unified very much today. Sure, on the most basic basics there is apparent unity, but anything at all beyond these and you start to get division between churches and denominations.

We all claim to have guidance by the same Spirit of God, yet we can't agree over even simple doctrine and practice issues, can't agree on worship styles, are often segregated racially or culturally, are not even willing to commune between churches, and on and on! All this nonsense led me to almost leaving the faith altogether. Then, after reaching out to the Lord in desperation, I came to the knowledge that, despite all this chaos, God founded one church. His prayer was that this church would be united -- one Lord, one faith, one baptism. I further realized that only one true and visible church existed from the time of the apostles, and that this church was the one that was given authority by Christ himself to safeguard and pass down the faith. I was surprised to discover that this church is known today as the Orthodox Church; it has been the one that has kept the apostolic faith intact for 2000 years -- in an unbroken line which has never needed a Reformation. All other churches may be Christian in principle, but they are ultimately splits from the Orthodox way, and those splits are begetting more divisions as time goes on. I believe that real unity should be achieved through believers getting connected to the original apostolic faith instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[stranger]

I believe that the Christian Church is actually remarkably unified on the essentials of the faith.

Simply look at the tens of thousands of absolutely required creeds dividing christianity into fragments to see that this is not true

No matter how we define essentials, I think we would all agree that what Jesus said in his last instructions to the disciples to teach whatever he taught, is a good summary of what is essential.

What Jesus said was:-

Matt 10:5 ¶ ... Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Very few christians go looking fro the House of Israel, few even know what the house of Israel is and almost no-one knows what the kingdom of heaven is ...

So how can christians be united when they don't or even can't do what Jesus said because they have no idea what he was talking about...

The point then is that christians follow traditions of men, not these instructions by Jesus ... and the tradition is a million miles away from what Jesus actually said, men have invented all maner of creedsw that have become traditions in this and that denomination [or cult, a denomination is just a large cult, it still follows the teaching of a man , not that of Jesus' instruction above]

So, that leaves out the nonsense over tongues, apostolic successionism, modes of baptism, teetotalling, genuflecting, or any other secondary (dare I say tertiary or less) idea of what defines Christianity.

What should define christianity is that christians would love all men and love God and would obey Jesus ... the one example [of many one could quote] above shows that most 'christians' do not and even cannot follow what Jesus said , so even your basic criterion actually excludes almost all who call themselves christians

I mean we all agree that what Jesus taught is the most important, don't we? I hope so.

People may readily agree that, but not even know what Jesus even means , as in the above example , so how could they obey when they have no idea what it means?

I know we define ourselves as tongues speakers, apostolic successionists, baptists, teetotalers, or whatever. However, don't all those titles pale into insignificance in comparison to calling ourselves Christians? Doesn't the word Christian mean follower of Christ first?

If it did , as it should perhaps, then clearly it would exclude the vast majority of those who cal themselves christians

Or are we more concerned with following Luther, Calvin, the pope, the Archbishop or Billy Graham first?

There you go, that is much closer to reality, every sect and denomination and cult was started by the initiative of a man, a man who perhaps did not have all truth of God ... and so christianity is divided by believing in differenet men ... but the followers of Christ are united in ONE truth by the holy spirit of truth give them by God... thus what can one conclude about almost all christianity ...

Are we not really remarkably unified after all?

Very obviously not, even by your own criterion ...

 

[stranger]

I think the most common ground that we share is the apostle's creed. I believe it is a good summary of what Christians believe. And yes, I would hope that people would follow Christ as their Shepherd and not another sheep.

You say that you would hope peopel would follow Christ, but what Christ said is written down and one can actully tell that almost all people do not follow what Jesus said at all, most do not even understand the things he spoke about :-

Matt 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

How many "go rather to the House of Israel" ?
How many even know who the hosue of Israel are ??
How many know what the kingdom of heaven is?
How many heal the sick?
How many cleanse lepers?
How many raise the dead?
How many cast out devils?
How many freely gve all they have?
How many have more than one coat?
...

It sounds good to say that one follows Cherist, but look at what it REALLY would involve ...

 

[stranger]

... it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is working within the Christian community as a whole, be it in the invisible, or what we Catholics might call the visible church.

And in the Holy Spirit there is unity.

Jesus said :-

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

Thus it MUST be that all true followers of Jesus in this world are guided into ALL TRUTH of God BEFORE DEATH....

this is easily observed not to be anything like the case for christians, almost all christians clearly die without knowing ALL truth of God in this life ...

Thus if the holy spirit were working as jesus describes here within christianity as a whoe, christianity would be united in one truth... it is nOT, it is dIVIDED into tens of thousands of different tales of men ... and saying that we should not say what is right or wrong is only to admit that you do not have all truth of God either, that implies the absence of the spirit of truth by Jesus' own statement ...

Thus it is a sort of madness [like the nursery tale of the king's invisible cloths that no-one will admit until a little child points out that the king is naked] to ignore what we can all see, that the holy spirit is NOT uniting christianity and most men are NOT YET receiving ALL truth of God before they die

The problem then is the tradition of men , that it cannot be reproved from the scripture because of the institutions that support and maintain tradition in place of the scripture

The failings of Christianity do not come upon focussing upon what Christians in other traditions have got right, or upon what we share in common trust, which is much.

The failings comes most when we take it upon ourselves to pronounce each other wrong.

Clearly without the spirit of truth to lead us into all truth, we do not have any basis for calling anyone else wrong, BUT the scripture DOES !!

 

[stranger]

While the concept of real Christian unity is an exciting one, I'd have to agree more with certain posters here that, sadly, Christianity is not unified very much today.

Whilst it might well appear sad at first, if one reads what Jesus said about it, one would realise that the falling away is REQUIRED and thus not sad at all, but simply the unfolding of God's plan , will, purpose in this earth... [Isaiah 14, Ezek 28, 2Thess 2, Rev 13:3-9]

We can tell by simple logic that almost all chrisianity is not guided by the spirit of truth since if it were then it would be united in ONE truth of God... thus in fact, looking at ALL scripture as a whole and asking God with yearing in prayer and meditaion for His truth ,one could assemble much of God's truth WITHOUT the private interpretation of scripture by particulaar men that dominates completely in the formation of 'creeds' in christianity , one sect believes in this man, another believes in that man ... it is madness really since Jesus said that the spirit of truth would teach all truth direct from God to those who as his ...

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

Thus if men were baptise of the spirit then they would KNOW ALL truth of God before they died...

But how many men do we know of who knew all truth of God before they died, very few indeed!!

But then Jesus is showing us that almost all of us do NOT have baptism of the spirit into all truth of God ...

we thus will NOT enter the kingdom on the basis of this life since one must be born of the spirit to enter the kingdom... again Jesus said so :-

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

BUT we know from Jesus that un****ably many WILL be saved [Rev 7:9-10] after the few saints are saved [Rev 7:3-8] ... thus we know that the many are nOT saved in this life, but in the new earth... this is confirmed in scripture by several points, not least that the many travel by a different broad way to their savation than the narrow way of the few saints of this earth

Equally we know from Joel's prophesy that God will baptise all men eventually but we also know that all men do noy receive all truth from God this way in this life , so they must do so in the next life after the second resurrection [the saints of the first resurrection of course must be baptised of the spirit in this life, they do know all truth of God before death]

Paul repeated Joel's prophecy in the NT :-
Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Clearly our sons and daughtrs are not prophesying so it has not happened yet, ... but many thus died in sin who can only thus receive this baptim of the spirit in the new earth after the second resurrection...

This then is WHY christianity is nOT united now, the sirit is not poured out on the many, only on the few saints, most chrsitians then are sinners , not saints , and they will not be united into one truth until the new earth after death and the second resurrection to a possible rightous life in the righteous new earth...

Why then does God redeem His chosen few of Israel first, simply because they are whom He selected to make priests and kings in the kingdom of Gd in the new earth, so they need to be gotten ready FIRST :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

1Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

There is only one nation on earth and in the bible who became not a people but whom God regards as His holy nation still, it is the paganised lost sheep of the House of Israel , the israelites who became paganised as gentiles because they were scattered amongst all nations and did not have Judaism to hold them together as a nation as did the Jews ...

That then is why ALL THE EARTH ends up worshipping Satan as God and only the saints just about manange to hold out with the truth of God given them...[Rev 13:3-9] ,that then is the fate of christianity according to Jesus and why Jesus said that a kingdom divided cannot stand , even when the whole world unites into one version of christianity with only the few saints still alive opposing it, that unity will be in a false faith in a false image of christ and a false image of God set up by Satan... that then is why the doctrines of men are not those of God and disagree with one or other part of the scripture ...