Unforgiving and pride

[Lorie]

I was called unforgiving and having trouble with pride in another thread. This made me think. since i was a teenager i have had a set of rules for a spouse. I will list them and you tell me if you think these are things that i should not expect from a husband and father.

I would divorce my husband if he did any of the following:

Hit me
Hit my kids
sexualy abused my kids
any violent act toward anyone
drug addiction

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

What about adultry? Do you consider spanking as hitting? Some ppl equate spanking w/ abuse, but if done properly it's not. So if you do, you may want to marry someone who doesn't believe in spanking!

 

[Lorie]

a spanking is not abuse. i used the "3 swats" rule. More then 3 swats is going over board.

Adultry? since i have no room to judge in this area i am not sure what i would do now. when i was younger i would have said adultry is a reason to leave.

 

[Andry]

Wouldn't you try to help him if he had any of those tendencies? Or would you just bolt and leave? Though not explicit, I assume you're already married.

 

[Lorie]

Wouldn't you try to help him if he had any of those tendencies? Or would you just bolt and leave? Though not explicit, I assume you're already married.

NOPE, i would leave and never look back!

 

[jd032700]

No offense, but I don't think it is right to ever enter a marriage with planned "outs." "I'll leave if you do _________." Saying things like that can be ways to threaten and blackmail your spouse. My mother-in-law has always had these things, similar to yours, that she tells her husband not to do if he wants to stay married to her. I think that saying that amounts to emotional abuse and can be very damaging to a marriage. Your spouse will always be tiptoeing around you hoping not to make you mad enough to leave. If you have things that you absolutely will not tolerate in a spouse then you had better be extremely careful in choosing a mate.

Now, granted the things in your list are things that no one wants in a spouse. That is why it is so important to choose your spouse carefully and prayerfully.

NOPE, i would leave and never look back!

That statement makes me sad. Marriage vows say for better or worse. Helping a spouse work through problems whether big or small is part of the marriage committment.

 

[A1nitewolf]

This is meat of what you said.

This would mean a divorce for me. If i found out my husband had done this kind of thing to a child i would divorce him. I could never forgive or forget this kind of thing. I wouldn't even try to forgive him.


I do have a strict set of rules and this one (Abusing children) Is a major one. God will just have to forgive me for standing up for what i believe is a sin against everyone not just the child. I would not forgive anyone for this kind of thing and i would divorce my husband for it!!!!! no question.

Matt 6:
14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Rom 3:
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

C.S. Lewis
"To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you."


Sister I pray that God breaks your pride and un forgiveness and in that brokenness that you see the depth of his love and grace.

 

[erin74]

Lorie,

I'm not sure that it was other people calling you unforgiving. I thought it was you that said you wouldn't forgive first. I could have that wrong tough, I am sorry if I do.

I think that there are certainly situations in marriage that would warrant a spouse separating from the other for a time. That time may be very long (I know one couple where it was many many years before he overcame his alcoholism, and could be counselled for this - they then went through counselling after he became a christian, and were able to live together as husband and wife once more - a great gift to each other and their children). I agree with what A1nightwolf has said - and the quotes he has put there.

As christians we are called to forgive. That is sometimes very hard and takes many years. We are not called to put ourselves in the situation of abuse again, and there are ways to deal with this that do not necessarily lead to divorce. To outrightly say that you are going to divorce someone if..... leaves no room for forgiveness, and for God to work in you and them. What if you were the one who did one of these aweful things, would you like for your husband to be gracious and forgiving to you?

"There but for the grace of God go I"

 

[isaiah5213]

uh, lorie, i remember those other posts and threads you gave, and i remember parts of what made other people point out your pride and unforgiveness, and uh, these below "rules" were not it...

it was when we told you to go home and love your husband, and you said "what's wrong with you people?! i won't love him, cuz i don't feel like it!!"

that was pride right there. you know what insane is?? i am sure you have heard this saying before... it is doing the same thing over and over and over again, and expecting different results....

hmm... i feel insane, & i think insane, because members of cf have written the same stuff over and over and over again, and we all pray that you one day just... wake up, and really commit to loving your husband. the problem is, it seems like you get on this board, and you too, want to just one day... wake up, look over at your husband and feel all these emotional goo goo gah gahs over your husband.. you don't wanna change YOU. you don't wanna work. you don't want for you to have to make efforts at ANYTHING. you just want your husband to just go away, so you can be by yourself, free to do the things you want anytime and anywhere.

sure, the same things have sometimes come from the same people, or maybe different people.. same stuff from newbies (i used to be new and write to your threads) & regulars, and older members.. and your listeners are dwindling...

DON'T GET ME WRONG... i do the exact same thing. i have numerous sins i don't wanna work on either. i don't take responsibility for lots of stuff i should either. there are numerous sins i do over and over and over, and i whine & i complain cuz' i don't like my results, and i exasperate my friends, cuz' in love they told me i shouldn't. in love they told me they cared, and were concerned the track i was taking, and i took the track anyway, and got angry cuz' it didn't work how i wanted to.. but how they said.. my pride looms up constantly, with "but i thought i was right." and my pride looms up w/"i am right"..

the problem?? i wanna be SOOOOOOO right, i don't care about being righteous.

honestly, look at this like the pot calling the kettle black.. the pot knows what black is. he may not know brown, green, blue, red, but he knows black, cuz' he's black. so unfortunately, he ain't lyin when he calls that kettle black..

i am insane. i am prideful. i work hard on forgiving, but i don't succeed..

i know my posts indicated your pride. i can't say whose posts indicated your unforgiveness. (shrug) but, uh, other members in these posts have only pointed out truths...we can talk ourselves blue to purple, and the fact is that love is still action. it is commitment. it is determination. it is patience, kindness, forgiveness, self-control, etc.. see 1 cor 13. it is not "emotion".. sure, we are women. we get emotional. but those "emotions" don't come till we act...

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

My bad. For some reason I was thinking she 'wasn't" married, and asking about that list for her future spouse:o

 

[isaiah5213]

you know.. i forgot to point out...

i hope it is not construed by what the others have put here that we think it is okay or excusable for a man to abuse his wife & kids in any way shape or form... i do not believe that is what the others are posting here...

i think they were just trying to explain why we would say "prideful & forgiving" that is all...

i too, would find it impossible to live w/a man if i realized that he was sexually abusing the children, specifically... if any other form of violence was a one time act, then we would immediately be getting help for us all...but drug addiction?? my standards are different... that's a sickness. we need help for our whole family, because that particular sickness affects the whole family, not just my husband.. but i wouldn't nor could i leave him.. because i deserved for everyone to leave me when i was addicted.. but many didn't. they hung in there, and they helped me as best they could. i would like to, and i thank God that i have the chance to do the same to someone else... it would hurt if it were my husband, but it would be better than i deserve.

 

[searle29678]

I was called unforgiving and having trouble with pride in another thread. This made me think. since i was a teenager i have had a set of rules for a spouse. I will list them and you tell me if you think these are things that i should not expect from a husband and father.

I would divorce my husband if he did any of the following:

Hit me
Hit my kids
sexualy abused my kids
any violent act toward anyone
drug addiction

I will say this in the defense of this statement, forgiving someone doesn't mean that you have to deal with it over and over and over again. That is when you start becoming a doormat. Forgiving and moving on is acceptable, in my opinion. I can forgive any one of those things...but sticking around to see if it happens again is a personal choice.

 

[heartnsoul]

I was called unforgiving and having trouble with pride in another thread. This made me think. since i was a teenager i have had a set of rules for a spouse. I will list them and you tell me if you think these are things that i should not expect from a husband and father.

I would divorce my husband if he did any of the following:

Hit me
Hit my kids
sexualy abused my kids
any violent act toward anyone
drug addiction

Your expectations for a husband and father are good ones. A godly marriage does not consist of abuse, addictions, adultery and violence. I threw in adultery because I would put it on the list. I strongly believe God wants us to be happy and wants the BEST for us. God does not expect us to be doormats and martyrs in life (in my opinion). With that said, I don't see anything wrong with your list of expectations. If more people followed that list in this world, then there would be more healthier and well-adjusted people out there.

With regards to what people think of you, it doesn't matter. What matters is what God thinks of you. Everyone has his/her opinions. What matters is if your walk with God is right or not. If you have issues with forgiveness or pride, God will work with you on those issues. Conviction is between God and you. It's a heart matter. No one has a right to judge your heart except God.

 

[A1nitewolf]

I strongly believe God wants us to be happy and wants the BEST for us. God does not expect us to be doormats and martyrs in life (in my opinion). With that said, I don't see anything wrong with your list of expectations. If more people followed that list in this world, then there would be more healthier and well-adjusted people out there.

Who wouldn't understand forgiveness and the depth of the grace that was shown on the cross.
1 John 1
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Col 3
13 You must make allowance for each other's faults and forgive the person who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others.

 

[Southern Cross]

I'm not casting judgement. I have a list, too. We all have choices in whether we stay married or divorce. But where in the world are we to go for Godly advice and support if every couple felt that divorce was justified based on a list of reasons? Isn't it incredibly wonderful to have people around who have made it through those firestorms and have beautiful marriages now? Isn't it a direct testimony to the way God forgives us and pulls us close to him after we push him away?

Some of us have gone through really rough times. I can see justification for divorce in some cases. But the people I've run into over the past three years have been nothing short of miraculous:

1. Christian guy severly addicted to pornography. Wife could've taken him for all he was worth (he makes a ton of money), yet she stuck it out. They have a beautiful, Godly marriage now.

2. Another Christian guy, alchoholic and prescription drug abuse. Wife stood by her man for years, he made it through. They're a solid rock in any storm.

3. Christian wife who had a major affair and ruined the family financially. Husband devastated. But they made it.

4. Christian man, with wife and two beautiful kids at home and a wife just recovering from a C-section. Gets involved at least emotionally with a beautiful younger woman and leaves his family home alone a lot during a terrible winter. Yet he and his wife confronted the issue, and they made it through. Took over 3 years to rebuild the trust.

5. I know of one man that repeatedly hit his kids whenever discipline was necessary (these were not spankings). He stopped, got his life right with God, now his grown children adore him. They know his faults, what he did. He was seperated from his family for a time, but moved back in once he got things under control. His wife was extremely supportive, yet demanding and requiring.

The key seems to be that both the husband and wife eventually made the decision to try again. So I wonder if we put our lists in front of Jesus, what would he say?

I have no idea... would He be legalistic and say that we should stick with our marriages an quote His word at us? Or would He say that were created with an emotional breaking point and that we should know based on common sense what our limits are or when we're making excuses for ourselves? I'd like to imagine that he'd explain his Word thoroughly so we'd have a clear understanding of what's expected of us. And then he'd gather us up in his arms and hug us and encourage us to be strong and do the right thing.

Sometimes I still have absolutely NO idea what the right thing is.

 

[Yitzchak]

I was called unforgiving and having trouble with pride in another thread. This made me think. since i was a teenager i have had a set of rules for a spouse. I will list them and you tell me if you think these are things that i should not expect from a husband and father.

I would divorce my husband if he did any of the following:

Hit me
Hit my kids
sexualy abused my kids
any violent act toward anyone
drug addiction

I think that your list is reasonable. I don't neccesarially think that divorce is the only option. Perhaps some men could be rehabilitated. But given the extreme nature of the offenses on your list , I would not blame you for leaving.

Whether or not you have a problem with pride or unforgivenss is a totally seperate issue. I guess only God knows the answer to that.The fact that you have this list and the conviction to not tolerate these things does not indicate pride or unforgiveness neccesarially.

 

[Zoomer]

I would divorce my husband if he did any of the following:

Hit me
Hit my kids
sexualy abused my kids
any violent act toward anyone
drug addiction

The only one that I would divorce my husband for without helping him (remember it is for better or for worse) is sexual abuse. The chances of him being rehabilitiated are low.
For the others, if my husband honestly wanted to change his behavior, I am not going to take away his opportunity to change for the better. However, I think it is hard to say what you would do if that situations happened to you.
I am surprised that adultery was not listen since that is the only valid reason for divorce listed in the Bible.

 

[Wakeup2god]

Had to just check that I wasn't in a women only 'lets slate men' forum for a moment. Lorie obviously hasn't been confronted with any of these scenarios has she. It's easy looking from the outside to say 'that's what I'd do', I'm sure it's different when you're in it though and maybe you have deeply, truly loved your spouse fist off.

Let's not forget that it isn't only men who do these things. No woman or man should have to tolerate such behaviour. We should love and respect each other. Women submit to your husbands, men love your wives like Jesus loves the church.

Is Lorie talking about a business agreement / contract or marriage vows. I'm not judging, I'm sure there are reasons why she thinks this way. Seems to me though like she's almost looking out for this behaviour or expecting it sometime.

What does Corinthians say about love?

 

[A1nitewolf]

3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.

 

[Lorie]

Had to just check that I wasn't in a women only 'lets slate men' forum for a moment. Lorie obviously hasn't been confronted with any of these scenarios has she. It's easy looking from the outside to say 'that's what I'd do', I'm sure it's different when you're in it though and maybe you have deeply, truly loved your spouse fist off.

Let's not forget that it isn't only men who do these things. No woman or man should have to tolerate such behaviour. We should love and respect each other. Women submit to your husbands, men love your wives like Jesus loves the church.

Is Lorie talking about a business agreement / contract or marriage vows. I'm not judging, I'm sure there are reasons why she thinks this way. Seems to me though like she's almost looking out for this behaviour or expecting it sometime.

What does Corinthians say about love?

No I have NEVER been subjected to any of these problems in my marriage. When i was dating my husband (I was 17) I told him that if he ever did any of these things I would leave and that would be the end.

It is funny that you you said this sounds like a business agreement. That is how i see my marriage and have for a long time now. Maybe that is how i saw our relationship from the start????