Unforgivable Sin

[thereselittleflower]

eBeth,
This is going to be a little hard for me so bear with me. I am one of those people that has a chemical disorder in their brain, I am BiPolar. The reason I say this is hard for me is because many when they hear this automatically lose some respect for me due to the fact that they see me as mentally challenged. And the truth is I am sometimes.
I too get the same feelings of inadequacy that you seem to be experiencing right now. I am under a doctor's care and I do in fact take meds daily for it which have changed my life dramatically. I found out about 7 yrs ago. For the longest time although I wished to be near Him and I was always searching for Him I never thought I was good enough and I thought that the things done in my past were just too far gone to be redeemable from.
My brain would tell me that this in fact was not the case but my feeling of it was completely different. Through much counseling and the proper medical care I have come to a point that I am able to deal better with these feelings now. I can rationalize them to myself and tell myself that what I have been taught is what is right and that in time I will see my way through this again that it is just a temporary state. One of the most important things that I had to learn though was this, that if I am good enough to be forgiven by Him then who am I not to forgive myself for whatever I think or imagined I have done wrong.
I hope this has been of comfort and help to you.
In Christ
You are in my Prayers
Debi

Debi

You have lost no respect with this one!

If anything, your courage in dealing with it and sharing this with us has increased the respect I have for you.

God bless you!


Peace in Him!

 

[eBeth]

Hello all,

I did a little research on the only unforgivable sin and now I'm confused.

I have a Catechisn book called "Basic Catechish" by Mary Lea Hill and Susan Helen Wallace. In that book it says the unforgivable sin is the sins against the Holy Spirit, which are: "despair of one's salvation, presumption of saving oneself without merit or repentance, resisting the known truth, envy of the graces received by others, obstinacy in one's sins, and final impenitence."

However the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" describes it as "...anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss." (1864)

This has me worried because of the possible chemical imbalance in my head, I've felt despair that I can't have salvation and I've felt jelous of people who are good and kind and will probably have salvation. Am I not forgiven? I know I need to seek God's forgiveness for my sins, and I have. If there is anything in the world I want, I want to be forgiven of my sins. I can't think of one thing I want more than to be forgiven.

 

[KennySe]

eBeth,
Please go to Confession.
COnfessing your sins (and your concerns) to the priest will assuredly take a great weight off your shoulders.

As for the "inconsistant information", I have advice for that too.
Stick with the teachings of the Catholic Church, as found in the Catechism.
Otherwise, you (and by "you" I mean any of us) can become confused by the various "definitions".

What "Blessed Trinity" means to the Catholic Church and all of mainstream Christianity, has an entirely different meaning to others.
(Same word "Trinity" understood as "One God" by Catholics and mainstream, is "one purpose of three individual Divinities" by others.
Stick with your Catholic faith.

 

[eBeth]

I am going to Confession this evening before mass and I plan on asking this question while I'm there.

The book I saw these things in is a Catholic Catechism book, purchased in a Catholic bookstore. That's why I'm so confused.

 

[pmarquette]

Unpardonable sin ( Might ask brother LLyod to confirm this from a RCC standpoint )

perception : dying in one of the sins mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6.9 ( sins unto death )or willingly and knowlinly rejecting the work of the cross , refusing the blood and work of Jesus ... with your last breath , grieving the Holy Spirit who seeks to reconcile you to the Father , by the atonement / substitutionary atonement of Jesus...

 

[thereselittleflower]

I ws remembering a post by somone on this issue, and I thought the reference had been in the Catechism . . but it was in the Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.org .



From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

VIII. SINS AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST​

The sin or blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is mentioned in Matthew 12:22-32; Mark 3:22-30; Luke 12:10 (cf. 11:14-23); and Christ everywhere declares that it shall not be pardoned. In what does it consist? If we examine all the passages alluded to, there can be little doubt as to the reply.

Let us take, for instance, the account given by St. Matthew which is more complete than that of the other Synoptics. There had been brought to Christ "one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw". While the crowd is wondering, and asking: "Is not this the Son of David?", the Pharisees, yielding to their wonted jealousy, and shutting their eyes to the light of evidence, say: "This man casteth not out devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." Jesus then proves to them this absurdity, and, consequently, the malice of their explanation; He shows them that it is by "the Spirit of God" that He casts out devils, and then He concludes: "therefore I say to you: Ever sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not he forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."

So, to sin against the Holy Ghost is to confound Him with the spirit of evil, it is to deny, from pure malice, the Divine character of works manifestly Divine. This is the sense in which St. Mark also defines the sin question; for, after reciting the words of the Master: "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost shall never have forgiveness", he adds at once: "Because they said: He hath an unclean spirit." With this sin of pure downright malice, Jesus contrasts the sin "against the Son of man", that is the sin committed against Himself as man, the wrong done to His humanity in judging Him by His humble and lowly appearance. This fault, unlike the former, might he excused as the result of man's ignorance and misunderstanding.

But the Fathers of the Church, commenting on the Gospel texts we are treating of, did not confine themselves to the meaning given above. Whether it be that they wished to group together all objectively analogous cases, or whether they hesitated and wavered when confronted with this point of doctrine, which St. Augustine declares (Serm. ii de verbis Domini, c. v) one of the most difficult in Scripture, they have proposed different interpretations or explanations.

St. Thomas, whom we may safely follow, gives a very good summary of opinions in II-II, Q. xiv. He says that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was and may be explained in three ways.

• Sometimes, and in its most literal signification, it has been taken to mean the uttering of an insult against the Divine Spirit, applying the appellation either to the Holy Ghost or to all three Divine persons. This was the sin of the Pharisees, who spoke at first against "the Son of Man", criticizing the works and human ways of Jesus, accusing Him of loving good cheer and wine, of associating with the publicans, and who, later on, with undoubted bad faith, traduced His Divine works, the miracles which He wrought by virtue of His own Divinity.
• On the other hand, St. Augustine frequently explains blasphemy against the Holy Ghost to be final impenitence, perseverance till death in mortal sin. This impenitence is against the Holy Ghost, in the sense that it frustrates and is absolutely opposed to the remission of sins, and this remission is appropriated to the Holy Ghost, the mutual love of the Father and the Son. In this view, Jesus, in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 did not really accuse the Pharisees of blaspheming the Holy Ghost, He only warned them against the danger they were in of doing so.
• Finally, several Fathers, and after them, many scholastic theologians, apply the expression to all sins directly opposed to that quality which is, by appropriation, the characteristic quality of the Third Divine Person. Charity and goodness are especially attributed to the Holy Ghost, as power is to the Father and wisdom to the Son. Just, then, as they termed sins against the Father those that resulted from frailty, and sins against the Son those that sprang from ignorance, so the sins against the Holy Ghost are those that are committed from downright malice, either by despising or rejecting the inspirations and impulses which, having been stirred in man's soul by the Holy Ghost, would turn him away or deliver him from evil.

It is easy to see how this wide explanation suits all the circumstances of the case where Christ addresses the words to the Pharisees. These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare. The sins against the Holy Ghost are said to be unpardonable, but the meaning of this assertion will vary very much according to which of the three explanations given above is accepted. As to final impenitence it is absolute; and this is easily understood, for even God cannot pardon where there is no repentance, and the moment of death is the fatal instant after which no mortal sin is remitted. It was because St. Augustine considered Christ's words to imply absolute unpardonableness that he held the sin against the Holy Ghost to be solely final impenitence. In the other two explanations, according to St. Thomas, the sin against the Holy Ghost is remissable -- not absolutely and always, but inasmuch as (considered in itself) it has not the claims and extenuating circumstance, inclining towards a pardon, that might be alleged in the case of sins of weakness and ignorance. He who, from pure and deliberate malice, refuses to recognize the manifest work of God, or rejects the necessary means of salvation, acts exactly like a sick man who not only refuses all medicine and all food, but who does all in his power to increase his illness, and whose malady becomes incurable, due to his own action. It is true, that in either case, God could, by a miracle, overcome the evil; He could, by His omnipotent intervention, either nuillify the natural causes of bodily death, or radically change the will of the stubborn sinner; but such intervention is not in accordance with His ordinary providence; and if he allows the secondary causes to act, if He offers the free human will of ordinary but sufficient grace, who shall seek cause of complaint? In a word, the irremissableness of the sins against the Holy Ghost is exclusively on the part of the sinner, on account of the sinner's act.

Peace in Him!

 

[eBeth]

"These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare."

Oh, no. Have I committed the unforgivable?

In the fast few weeks, ever since I've been having these thoughts that I possibly "sold my soul", I've felt despair. I thought that I was going to hell for doing that. I KNOW God forgives all, even something as awful as that, but the fear is soooo REAL in my mind that I get totally depressed and cry because I feel like I can't get into Heaven. Like I said, I know God has forgiven me, but the fear is unbearable. I feel like my mind is not my own.

Then I have looked at people, happy people, and holy people like priests and nuns, and thought "Wouldn't it be great to be them. I wish I was like them". They don't have these thoughts all the time of going to hell.

It's a vicious circle. I read this post which made me think I comitted the unforgivable, so that is making me scared and sad, so in a way I am committing the sin. If I can get my mind right can I be forgiven or is it too late?

 

[Debi1967]

"These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare."

Oh, no. Have I committed the unforgivable?

In the fast few weeks, ever since I've been having these thoughts that I possibly "sold my soul", I've felt despair. I thought that I was going to hell for doing that. I KNOW God forgives all, even something as awful as that, but the fear is soooo REAL in my mind that I get totally depressed and cry because I feel like I can't get into Heaven. Like I said, I know God has forgiven me, but the fear is unbearable. I feel like my mind is not my own.

Then I have looked at people, happy people, and holy people like priests and nuns, and thought "Wouldn't it be great to be them. I wish I was like them". They don't have these thoughts all the time of going to hell.

It's a vicious circle. I read this post which made me think I comitted the unforgivable, so that is making me scared and sad, so in a way I am committing the sin. If I can get my mind right can I be forgiven or is it too late?

Ebeth what is it that you feel honestly that is keeping you from being able to forgive yourself of the things that He has already forgiven you for? that is what in truth is putting you out of alignment right now. You do not trust enough that he has actually done these things because if you did then it would not be hard to forgive what He has already forgiven and move forward.
In Christ
Debi

 

[eBeth]

Ebeth what is it that you feel honestly that is keeping you from being able to forgive yourself of the things that He has already forgiven you for? that is what in truth is putting you out of alignment right now. You do not trust enough that he has actually done these things because if you did then it would not be hard to forgive what He has already forgiven and move forward.
In Christ
Debi

I think it is the fact that I don't really love myself.

 

[thereselittleflower]

"These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare."

Oh, no. Have I committed the unforgivable?

In the fast few weeks, ever since I've been having these thoughts that I possibly "sold my soul", I've felt despair. I thought that I was going to hell for doing that. I KNOW God forgives all, even something as awful as that, but the fear is soooo REAL in my mind that I get totally depressed and cry because I feel like I can't get into Heaven. Like I said, I know God has forgiven me, but the fear is unbearable. I feel like my mind is not my own.

Then I have looked at people, happy people, and holy people like priests and nuns, and thought "Wouldn't it be great to be them. I wish I was like them". They don't have these thoughts all the time of going to hell.

It's a vicious circle. I read this post which made me think I comitted the unforgivable, so that is making me scared and sad, so in a way I am committing the sin. If I can get my mind right can I be forgiven or is it too late?

hi eBeth

First, NO!!! You are not committing this sin . . you are scared, you are not wanting to think or feel this way . . you are not choosing this . .

The part you are focusing in the entry from the Encylopedia needs to be read within the entire context of the entry . . if you take it out by itself and say "oh no - - this is what I am doing, so I have committed the unpardonable sin" . . then you have missed something essential in the quote . .

It has to be deliberate, there has to be malice . .

He who, from pure and deliberate malice, refuses to recognize the manifest work of God, or rejects the necessary means of salvation, acts exactly like a sick man who not only refuses all medicine and all food, but who does all in his power to increase his illness, and whose malady becomes incurable, due to his own action.

There is not a hint of malice, even undeliberate, in you . . .

Your desire to be free of all this speaks to your repentant heart, which you could not have if you had committed the unpardonable sin.


Please be encouraged . . . it is hard to identify all the factors at work here in you, but keep placing your trust and confidence in God . . Ask Mary to interceede for you . .


I would like to say something about selling your soul to the devil . . there is nothing in the scriptures that says selling your soul to the devil is an unforgivable sin (even if you had, which you haven't) . .

I will share something with you . . I KNOW someone who sold their soul tot he devil! She became one of the highest priestesses within Witchcraft (black witchcraft) . . . she was MARRIED to Satan . . .

Even SHE was not beyond the reach of God's saving Grace through Jesus . . I will also tell you this. The last time I saw her was a few years ago, and then, one could see that though she had deeply committed her life to Christ, and had grown deep in her understanding of the things of God, the darkness still tried to hold on to her .. . We were at a Christain conference and our small group managed to secure a private lunch room so we could talk freely . . she spent most of her time listening .. but then, she began to speak about heavenly things, and it was like hearing the words of an angel . . her face transformed infront of me . . she was full of light, beautiful golden light, beauty like I find difficult to describe .. and I realized that God was letting me see her, at least in a little way, like she appears to Him! It was a tremendous revelation. . .

You are also like that eBeth . . you are full of beautiful, radient, transcendent, heavenly golden light . . all fair and beautiful to God! This darkness you are experiencing is not the truth . . it is merely shadow and vapor, it has no substance. You belong to God. He will not fail you.


Peace in Him!

 

[Debi1967]

I think it is the fact that I don't really love myself.

God LOVES you always and as long as He does then you need to be safely sure that you can too. This was something that was very hard for me as well. I had such issues with my own self worth. I do know where you are coming from.
In Christ
Your Sister
Debi

 

[eBeth]

hi eBeth

First, NO!!! You are not committing this sin . . you are scared, you are not wanting to think or feel this way . . you are not choosing this . .

The part you are focusing in the entry from the Encylopedia needs to be read within the entire context of the entry . . if you take it out by itself and say "oh no - - this is what I am doing, so I have committed the unpardonable sin" . . then you have missed something essential in the quote . .

It has to be deliberate, there has to be malice . .

[/i]

There is not a hint of malice, even undeliberate, in you . . .

Your desire to be free of all this speaks to your repentant heart, which you could not have if you had committed the unpardonable sin.


Please be encouraged . . . it is hard to identify all the factors at work here in you, but keep placing your trust and confidence in God . . Ask Mary to interceede for you . .


I would like to say something about selling your soul to the devil . . there is nothing in the scriptures that says selling your soul to the devil is an unforgivable sin (even if you had, which you haven't) . .

I will share something with you . . I KNOW someone who sold their soul tot he devil! She became one of the highest priestesses within Witchcraft (black witchcraft) . . . she was MARRIED to Satan . . .

Even SHE was not beyond the reach of God's saving Grace through Jesus . . I will also tell you this. The last time I saw her was a few years ago, and then, one could see that though she had deeply committed her life to Christ, and had grown deep in her understanding of the things of God, the darkness still tried to hold on to her .. . We were at a Christain conference and our small group managed to secure a private lunch room so we could talk freely . . she spent most of her time listening .. but then, she began to speak about heavenly things, and it was like hearing the words of an angel . . her face transformed infront of me . . she was full of light, beautiful golden light, beauty like I find difficult to describe .. and I realized that God was letting me see her, at least in a little way, like she appears to Him! It was a tremendous revelation. . .

You are also like that eBeth . . you are full of beautiful, radient, transcendent, heavenly golden light . . all fair and beautiful to God! This darkness you are experiencing is not the truth . . it is merely shadow and vapor, it has no substance. You belong to God. He will not fail you.


Peace in Him!

thereselittleflower

Thank you for the clarifacation. I was in such a state that I couldn't think straight.

I was just beside myself thinking that I rejected God's love and forgiveness. That's the last thing I want to do.

I am so glad your friend got away from the black witchcraft. That stuff is so frightening to me. It always has been. That is why it is so strange that I've started obsessing about that very thing. It is so awsume that she turned away from that stuff and back to God.

Thanks you for your kind words. They are a comfort to me. In time, once I can get my head straight, I will be able to cast away the fear and just be able to grow in my faith.

Elizabeth