Understanding the Scriptures

Bob S

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I did say I would check in once and a while and I couldn't resist BibleDisciple's question about my statement: To SDAs I am a lost soul. Unless, according to the church, I come back into the faith I will not receive my eternal reward. I am afraid you will not get the whole truth from the membership. Some are not aware that the SDA prophet ever wrote such things and remember it was her angel who had her seeing those things. When she wrote "I saw" it means God revealed this to her. Remember that the SDA church claims they are the only true church, the remnant. My belief is that even if I joined another Sabbath observing church, I would be part of the fallen churches. Only the SDA church has all of the truth or so they believe.
I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant. {EW 261.1}
Ellen White called the fallen churches nominal churches.
I saw that the nominal churches have fallen; that coldness and death reign in their midst. If they would follow the Word of God, it would humble them. But they get above the work of the Lord. It is too humiliating for them to repeat the same simple story of God’s goodness when they meet together, and they study to get something new, something great, and to have their words exact to the ear and pleasing to man, and God’s Spirit leaves them. When we follow the humble Bible way, we shall have the movings of the Spirit of God. All will be in sweet harmony if we follow the humble channel of truth, depending wholly upon God, and there will be no danger of being affected by the evil angels. It is when souls get above the Spirit of God, moving in their own strength, that the angels cease watching over them, and they are left to the buffetings of Satan. {EW 116.1}
Now to the truth of what I wrote:
It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

Now I will try to refrain.
 
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BobRyan

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I was under the impression that SDA's believe that some Sunday keeping Protestants are saved.

It is our belief that given that we are only the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world (according to 2015 Christianity Today article) -- then the majority of saved saints are outside of the SDA church

How then can someone say that if you leave the SDA denomination that you are no longer saved?

Our 28 Fundamental beliefs are found online and they do not say that - but you are quoting someone here who as posted that they are ex-SDA - so you need to differentiate between the two "sources".

I did say I would check in once and a while and I couldn't resist BibleDisciple's question about my statement: To SDAs I am a lost soul. Unless, according to the church, I come back into the faith I will not receive my eternal reward. I am afraid you will not get the whole truth from the membership. .

Next we will find a statement that does not say "anyone who leaves the SDA denomination is not saved",... details


No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

The statement talks about someone fully convinced of the truth who then turns against it, which would be a problem no matter what denomination they were in - for example: if you suddenly become convinced that the Bible is not the Word of God - after knowing full well that it is -- you are in a bad position even if you are a Methodist at the time.

Interesting that the thread title is "understanding the scriptures" and then gets redirected to "what did Ellen White say about ex-Adventists".
 
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BobRyan

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I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists

That "nominal Adventists" term means "former Millerites" that are not Seventh-day Adventists yet called "God's honest children" so are still the children of God, saved saints.

Still not on the topic of the thread - but I chose to clarify that term since I did not see it explained by the one posting it.
 
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BibleDisciple

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I would say that anyone who deliberately disobeys any commandment will not be saved. There are some very liberal protestants who believe that the law is done away with and they are free to do whatever they want and still be covered by grace. Those people will be disappointed at Christ's coming.

Protestant churches occasionally convert to Sabbath keeping. You see this throughout history. There are some who believe that God will lead these brethren to the One True Church and if they reject it, then they have lost their salvation. I would be surprised if there is anyone who believes that here.
 
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BobRyan

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I would say that anyone who deliberately disobeys any commandment will not be saved.


Agreed. Determining that the Bible says "A" with some high degree of confidence then turning against it - is always a bad idea.

Eve was fully convinced in Gen 3 that God said not to eat of the tree of knowledge lest you die - then shortly thereafter got "convinced" that maybe she would not die at all and in fact maybe there was so much to be gained from rebellion against what she thought God was saying -- that it would outweigh the small risk.
 
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BobRyan

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Protestant churches occasionally convert to Sabbath keeping. You see this throughout history. .

True ... in fact Adventists were not initially Sabbath keeping. It was influence from Bible study and from a few Seventh-day Baptists that got the Adventist's attention and they finally agreed on the 7th day position of Ex 20:10
 
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BobRyan

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There are some who believe that God will lead these brethren to the One True Church .

1. No matter what church you go to - you should be convinced that "that church" has the best most accurate Bible doctrine as far as you have been able to determine when comparing what they teach to what you find in the Bible. That is true for Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian... .you name it.

2. Nobody who is really honest and serious about "the Truth" - would be in a church saying "well my church/denomination is doctrinally incorrect on A, B, C . That other denomination over there is closer to the Bible but I don't think such things are that important".

3. For many of us who are not Catholic - the view of Christian history is that the NT church began with pure doctrine and over the centuries error crept into the church. Then began the "reformations" as Christians slowly began to realize that the church at large had drifted off of the standard Christ had set in the first century. Over the centuries God raised up reform after reform ... making course corrections and creating a movement that advanced closer and closer to the standard Christ set in the first century A.D.

4. Satan is the "father of lies" according to Christ and has worked hard to insert doctrinal error into the church according to Paul in Acts 20:29-31 Gal 1:6-9, and Jude in Jude 1:3-4 (Many many other examples in the NT). Error leads to bad actions and distorts the image of God presented to the world by the church. It causes the church to speak falsely about who God is and what His gospel is.

5. Eph 5:25-27 - Christ's objective is to have the church be found without spot or wrinkle...
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands also ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
 
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BibleDisciple

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Eve was fully convinced in Gen 3 that God said not to eat of the tree of knowledge lest you die - then shortly thereafter got "convinced" that maybe she would not die at all and in fact maybe there was so much to be gained from rebellion against what she thought God was saying -- that it would outweigh the small risk.

That's a warning for all of us. Maybe she didn't fully understand what rebellion really was, but it looks like she was sincere in her decision and bore the consequences for her actions.

I used to think that doctrine was the most important thing in terms of choosing a church. I now believe that you should attend the church where you will experience the most spiritual growth. There are some controversial beliefs (according to some) in the SDA church, but the SDA church has maintained stability in spite of some people disagreeing with some of the doctrines. There are multiple factors to consider when choosing a church, but the real question is: Will you grow closer to God there and not if they understand Revelation 19-20.
 
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BobRyan

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E There are multiple factors to consider when choosing a church, but the real question is: Will you grow closer to God there and not if they understand Revelation 19-20.

  • John 8:32 32 "you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
  • John 14 " I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life"
  • John 17:17 "sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy Word is Truth"
  • 2 Thess 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Tells me 4 things:
  • Satan's power to deceive is far greater if one chooses not to have a love of the Truth.
  • God sends Truth as a protection against Satan's schemes
  • Christ identifies Himself with the Truth, "love of Truth" = "Love of Christ"
  • Every true reformation in Christian history involved accepting Truth and rejecting error that had crept into the camp of the saints over the centuries.
So given that all denominations have "the Bible" but not all have pure doctrine - one of the first values we have in knowing Christ - is "Love of the Truth" because Christ is Himself "The Truth".

Here is a great example of someone who struggled with the very same point you brought up - when it came to considering their path from being Muslim to being a Christian.


Must See Amazing Story! Saved from alternate-lifestyle, drugs, suicide, demon worship, and a strict non-Christian faith.

From: Found Rest
 
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