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Understanding the Genesis Creation Story in dept.

dana b

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This is what my grandfather explained to me about the Genesis Creation Story. I have tried to show it on some charts because how could I explain it in words? it sure suprised me when I heard it. I put it on www.christianidentityrevealed2012.com

ChapterOne%20(1).jpg
 
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Keachian

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Except that the order in which God "created" was:

Light,
Weather,
Food,
Sun, moon, stars
Those that live in the "waters" (including birds...)
Nephesh
Those in the Image of God.

Looking around your site I think it's concordist hocus pocus and gnosticism
 
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Keachian

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I was being rather nice, probably because I've seen more beneficial reactions to gnostic/concordist accusations as compared to saying CI is wrong.

I do however agree with your accusation that CI is for the most part heretical and completely unfounded biblically, historically and traditionally (or is tradition a part of history?)

I would rather not have another CI debate in origins theology though so if it gets to that I'd be petitioning it to be moved to general.
 
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Standing_Ultraviolet

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I would rather not have another CI debate in origins theology though so if it gets to that I'd be petitioning it to be moved to general.

Ah, sorry. I didn't realize that it came up that often. It's going to be very difficult for this not to go to Christian Identity eventually, though, because it's the system that the OP's other beliefs are coming out of.
 
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Keachian

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The picture in the OP directly quotes Genesis.

And then goes into hand wavy exegesis and hermeneutics to sell platonism/gnosticism under a "Christian" guise, pretty quickly discarding the actual Genesis account to chase after these frankly pagan philosophies.
 
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Standing_Ultraviolet

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These are the identies of the "regenerated" tribes. Matt.19;28 The charts you have examined are a discription of the identity of the Christians. They originated from Jesus's message. Why bring up the uninformed beliefs of those false chuches and groups? I don't at all agree with them nor they with me. They are racist and probably part of the antichrist.

There are certain beliefs that are associated pretty much automatically with the Christian Identity movement. I'm sorry for associating these with you, since you apparently don't hold them. I still disagree with your ideology (ie., the twelve apostles really didn't recreate twelve tribes of Israel, they created twelve lines of succession that exist in every corner of the Earth), but you really don't seem to hold the more extreme beliefs that I've seen in the past. Your site's name is "Christian Identity Revealed", and upon going to the site, I saw a map of Europe with "European Christian Israel" written on it. I'm sure that, with your description of how you reacted to the Christian Identity movement, you can understand why I was reluctant to read further.

With that out of the way, though, I can address this in a way that's a little bit more civil. Your view on Genesis merges the so-called "four elements" system that first emerged with Empedocles (a Sicilian philosopher from the fifth century) with the Bible, but at the very latest, Genesis was likely written roughly half a century before Empedocles was born. Similar but different systems existed in Babylon and would have been more likely as a source, but they had more than four elements, and those elements were not exactly the same as those of the Greeks (from henceforth the Hellenes, because I prefer the term and believe that it's more reflective of how the people described viewed themselves). This Hellenic system of philosophy was the most popular during the Middle Ages, but it was eventually revealed to be incorrect (ie., things are not made up of four elements, they're made up of a host of elementary particles like quarks, and those quarks make up over a hundred atoms with different reactive properties). It seems inappropriate, then, to attach the four elements system to Genesis.

EDIT: Sorry, I wrote this before your second post. It seems unlikely that Empedocles would have obtained his philosophy from Israel when it had various precursors in other parts of the world. The second part of this still stands, though. The four elements system was a valiant attempt to understand the way that the world works, but we now understand some of the elements (fire, for example) aren't fundamental building blocks of the Universe. Fire is a chemical reaction between oxygen and other molecules like carbon that generates enough heat to cause a chain reaction and to excite electrons, which rise to a higher shell on individual atoms and then descend to a lower one, releasing a photon of light. Water is a combination of oxygen and hydrogen, and air is a complex pastiche of atoms (same with earth).
 
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