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Understanding Scripture?

awitch

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Hello there,

Over in the Christianity & World Religions forum, I've often heard the expression that I can't understand scripture unless I "have the Holy Spirit", or that the "Holy Spirit must dwell within me" (or some variation of that). To be honest, I feel it's a cop out; a reason to dismiss alternative scriptural interpretations or arguments without having to expend any effort considering them. I'm hoping some Christians have some time to clarify this expression by providing some input to the following questions.

1. If the Bible is meant to set God's expectations for everyone, provide a proper road map for life, and be the key to Jesus, and therefore, heaven, isn't this requirement of "having the Holy Spirit" self-defeating? With everyone's eternal soul on the line, shouldn't the Bible be readily understandable by anyone, and especially non-Christians?

2. When I ask, "How do I get the Holy Spirit?", I'm often told I need to pray or accept/welcome/invite Jesus (or some variatoin of that). But why would I do that when I don't believe yet? It's almost like in order to truly believe in Christianity, I have to understand the Bible, but to understand the Bible, I have to already believe.

3. Again, if one must have the "Holy Spirit" to understand scripture, isn't it a waste of time for Christians to proselytize by citing lots of scripture? As a non-Christian without the "Holy Spirit", I can't understand it anyway, right?

Thanks in advance.
 

HTacianas

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Hello there,

Over in the Christianity & World Religions forum, I've often heard the expression that I can't understand scripture unless I "have the Holy Spirit", or that the "Holy Spirit must dwell within me" (or some variation of that). To be honest, I feel it's a cop out; a reason to dismiss alternative scriptural interpretations or arguments without having to expend any effort considering them. I'm hoping some Christians have some time to clarify this expression by providing some input to the following questions.

1. If the Bible is meant to set God's expectations for everyone, provide a proper road map for life, and be the key to Jesus, and therefore, heaven, isn't this requirement of "having the Holy Spirit" self-defeating? With everyone's eternal soul on the line, shouldn't the Bible be readily understandable by anyone, and especially non-Christians?

2. When I ask, "How do I get the Holy Spirit?", I'm often told I need to pray or accept/welcome/invite Jesus (or some variatoin of that). But why would I do that when I don't believe yet? It's almost like in order to truly believe in Christianity, I have to understand the Bible, but to understand the Bible, I have to already believe.

3. Again, if one must have the "Holy Spirit" to understand scripture, isn't it a waste of time for Christians to proselytize by citing lots of scripture? As a non-Christian without the "Holy Spirit", I can't understand it anyway, right?

Thanks in advance.

Where to begin, oh my.

You are looking at Christianity through the perspective of protestantism, which is only a later idea in Christian history. The bible, specifically the new testament, is mot a road map for life, nor is it a comprehensive set of expectations for a person to live a life pleasing to God.

The new testament is the "corporate minutes" of Christianity, and the letters it contains were written to groups who already understood what they meant. They are not subject to any " interpretation" within the meaning of protestantism.

As to your second question, a person receives the Holy Spirit at chrismation. That is plain from the very scriptures we are discussing.

God has not left us with a bible that no one understands and abandoned our souls to determine what it means at the risk of eternal death if we are wrong. Jesus Christ established his church, and that church need not "interpret" the bible, she already knows what it means.
 
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The bottom line and the first step is to come to the knowledge that there is a living God who created the universe and everything in it. Unless a person comes to that knowledge, then everything in the Bible is meaningless to that person.
 
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paul1149

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It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. - Pro 25:2 ESV​

God doesn't always make Himself apparent. Sometimes He remains the "immanent" one, just beyond our senses, and approaching Him is likened to climbing a hill in the Psalms (15, et al) and the Song. He wants us to want Him sincerely, and generally He requires that He be approached with the honor due Him.

We can see this reflected in some of Jesus' actions. He didn't always make Himself known. He hid from most people that He was Messiah. He spoke in "dark sayings" at least once, because the crowd was not sincerely interested in His true message. He refused to do additional signs for the unbelieving Jews in John 6. He took a blind man outside of a town He had condemned for lack of faith, to heal him privately.

The Holy Spirit is there to help all who sincerely ask for help. "God watches over His word, to perform it", and "The eyes of the Lord roam to and fro throughout the whole Earth to prove Himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are perfect toward Him".

How do you get the Holy Spirit? You ask. And if you're serious, you keep asking. You ask until you receive (Lk 18.1-ff, Mt 7.7-8). You may have to prepare the soil by pulling up weeds and tilling the ground. You will do what you need to do.

Jesus tells us in Jn 7.17:

If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
You see there the beginnings of an engagement. It's not a blunt all-or-nothing deal, or as you suggest, no change would be possible. (And this is why the preaching of the Word is efficacious.) God honors the attitude of the heart. It's called prevenient grace. Here, the person does not know, but he is willing. God honors that and gives the needed knowledge. That's how it begins. You go to God and ask with a willingness to listen on His terms. And if you begin to sense that you need to make changes in order to "prepare the way of the Lord" (Matthew 3.3), you will do so. Because you really want Him if He's there.
 
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awitch

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...The new testament is the "corporate minutes" of Christianity, and the letters it contains were written to groups who already understood what they meant. They are not subject to any " interpretation" within the meaning of protestantism.
...
Jesus Christ established his church, and that church need not "interpret" the bible, she already knows what it means.

So, should people not be concerned with what the Bible says and rely instead on what the Church says about it? When people not associated with the Eastern Orthodox Church cite scripture or suggest what it means, what would be a proper response?
 
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awitch

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The bottom line and the first step is to come to the knowledge that there is a living God who created the universe and everything in it. Unless a person comes to that knowledge, then everything in the Bible is meaningless to that person.

This is a good example of #2; one must already believe in order to believe.
 
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awitch

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God doesn't always make Himself apparent. Sometimes He remains the "immanent" one, just beyond our senses, and approaching Him is likened to climbing a hill in the Psalms (15, et al) and the Song. He wants us to want Him sincerely, and generally He requires that He be approached with the honor due Him.

But one must approach already believing the specifics of God and his characteristics, as described by the Bible, yes?

What if one sincerely seeks the divine without any preconceived ideas and ends up following an entirely different religion?
 
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Not David

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So, should people not be concerned with what the Bible says and rely instead on what the Church says about it? When people not associated with the Eastern Orthodox Church cite scripture or suggest what it means, what would be a proper response?
Wouldn't it be efficient to get the guidance of the Church that brought Scriptures?
 
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This is a good example of #2; one must already believe in order to believe.
It depends on what you choose to believe - what is most logical to you. Everyone believes in something. A person's future depends on what he believes in the present. It is what you do, that shows what you actually believe. If, as reflected in your ID as "pagan", then, if you really believe in paganism, then you will do what pagans do.
 
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If you want to understand the Bible, you need to understand the Church, which pre-exists the New Testament writings. See what it has to say, as it has the divine authority to teach.
If he doesn't believe that there is a living God and is, as his ID states, that he believes in paganism, the Church will be meaningless to him as well as the Bible, or anything that pertains to Christianity.
 
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bcbsr

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Hello there,

Over in the Christianity & World Religions forum, I've often heard the expression that I can't understand scripture unless I "have the Holy Spirit", or that the "Holy Spirit must dwell within me" (or some variation of that). To be honest, I feel it's a cop out; a reason to dismiss alternative scriptural interpretations or arguments without having to expend any effort considering them. I'm hoping some Christians have some time to clarify this expression by providing some input to the following questions.

1. If the Bible is meant to set God's expectations for everyone, provide a proper road map for life, and be the key to Jesus, and therefore, heaven, isn't this requirement of "having the Holy Spirit" self-defeating? With everyone's eternal soul on the line, shouldn't the Bible be readily understandable by anyone, and especially non-Christians?

2. When I ask, "How do I get the Holy Spirit?", I'm often told I need to pray or accept/welcome/invite Jesus (or some variatoin of that). But why would I do that when I don't believe yet? It's almost like in order to truly believe in Christianity, I have to understand the Bible, but to understand the Bible, I have to already believe.

3. Again, if one must have the "Holy Spirit" to understand scripture, isn't it a waste of time for Christians to proselytize by citing lots of scripture? As a non-Christian without the "Holy Spirit", I can't understand it anyway, right?

Thanks in advance.
The Holy Spirit can operate both internally in the case of believers, and externally in the case of unbelievers. As for the 1Cor chapter 2, it's referring to the following, "We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature". That's the one that goes on "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." 1Cor 2:14-16

Thus rudimentary messages, such as the basic presentation of the gospel, doesn't require the kind of depth that would be the case for more advanced teachings.

"Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly— mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready." 1Cor 3:1,2

"We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." Heb 5:11-14

If a person doesn't resist the Holy Spirit in leading them to Christ, they will come to understand and believe the gospel. That will then qualify them to receive the Spirit and be born of God by the Spirit and will prepare them to understand more advanced issues.

Attempts to understand more advanced theology by those who have not yet come to genuine faith in Christ tends to lead to heretical ideas, for the reasons Paul gives in 1Cor 2.
 
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awitch

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I would think an intermediate step, such as the Church, would be less efficient. Being composed of fallible people would also make it prone to corruption and/or unintentional error. Beyond the scope of this thread, but another question I often considered was why god would rely on angels, prophets, and churches at all.
 
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awitch

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If he doesn't believe that there is a living God and is, as his ID states, that he believes in paganism, the Church will be meaningless to him as well as the Bible, or anything that pertains to Christianity.

There's still plenty of meaning to take away, but I confess not likely to accept, "you need to do X, Y, and Z or believe A, B, and C" just because the Bible says so.
 
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paul1149

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But one must approach already believing the specifics of God and his characteristics, as described by the Bible, yes?

No.
What if one sincerely seeks the divine without any preconceived ideas and ends up following an entirely different religion?
If his heart is open, and he seeks until it is satisfied, he will find the truth.
 
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HTacianas

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So, should people not be concerned with what the Bible says and rely instead on what the Church says about it? When people not associated with the Eastern Orthodox Church cite scripture or suggest what it means, what would be a proper response?

The Church wrote the bible. The Church chose which books should be in the bible. The Church knows what the bible says and what the bible means.

If someone not associated with the Church cites scripture or suggests what it means and their ideas differ from what the Church teaches their ideas are wrong. It's simple logic. Either one is right and the other is wrong or they are both wrong. It can be no other way.
 
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Not David

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I would think an intermediate step, such as the Church, would be less efficient. Being composed of fallible people would also make it prone to corruption and/or unintentional error. Beyond the scope of this thread, but another question I often considered was why god would rely on angels, prophets, and churches at all.
How do you think God could communicate his message?
 
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dzheremi

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From an Oriental Orthodox perspective:

Hello there,

Over in the Christianity & World Religions forum, I've often heard the expression that I can't understand scripture unless I "have the Holy Spirit", or that the "Holy Spirit must dwell within me" (or some variation of that). To be honest, I feel it's a cop out; a reason to dismiss alternative scriptural interpretations or arguments without having to expend any effort considering them.

You're absolutely right about that. If everything was to be understood in the same way, we probably would not have the four Gospels in the first place. Why not have one and be done with it, since they largely cover the same events? Because they're written to different audiences, by different authors, and hence have different emphases. The same can be said about the entire Bible, and our understandings of it: in the Egyptian Church to which I belong, there is a different hermeneutical tradition than there is in the Antiochian Church, which is itself somewhat different than what you find in the Latin/Western Church, etc. Yet up to a certain historical point (which was long after the codification of the Bible), all of these were in communion with one another, so it would not have made sense for any one to posit that their different approaches and hence different understandings pointed to others' loss of the Holy Spirit or whatever. (That would come later, after Chalcedon in 451 for the Egpytians, or after 1054 for the Greeks and Romans.)

1. If the Bible is meant to set God's expectations for everyone, provide a proper road map for life, and be the key to Jesus, and therefore, heaven, isn't this requirement of "having the Holy Spirit" self-defeating? With everyone's eternal soul on the line, shouldn't the Bible be readily understandable by anyone, and especially non-Christians?

We do not pick up a Bible in order to teach us how to be religious. The Egyptians especially were already plenty religious before the arrival of Christianity with St. Mark in the AD 40s-50s. And when St. Mark came to Egypt, it was obviously not with the entire Bible under his arm to teach and preach out of it. The Greek translation of what would be known as the Old Testament was already present thanks to the work of the seventy translators at Alexandria (hence its name, the Septuagint), but the NT texts had yet to be written. What he did bring, though, was his experience with Jesus Christ and the apostles, and from that experience and his preexisting knowledge of the Greek OT (St. Mark himself being a Hellenized Jew from Libya), he began to preach, first among the Jews and Hellenes at Alexandria, then among the wider community.

We would certainly say that St. Mark was guided by the Holy Spirit, but it wouldn't really make sense to apply that to the reading of the scriptures themselves in this context, as that wasn't really a feature of what he was doing. There was of course his background knowledge in what would've been the only scriptures anyone had in that area of the world at the time, but this idea of "Everyone crack open their Bible, which is a unitary, invariant book that they own or otherwise can read in private, and divine the meaning of it by asking it of the Holy Spirit (thereby setting up a situation wherein whatever meaning you do get out of it must be what 'the Holy Spirit' is teaching...)" is a modern approach to the scriptures and religion more generally. There is after all the practice in Judaism whereby men would gather to debate the meaning of the Torah...I wonder if any of them ever pulled this "God told me it means this, so bug off!" trump card on each other? It reminds me of a Jewish joke I once heard: four Jews were arguing among each other about the meaning of the Torah when one of them became frustrated and began praying to God so that they might receive a sign as to which one of them was right. In response to the man's fervent prayer, the voice of God came down from heaven, showing approval to the one who had prayed: "I AM THE LORD, AND I DECLARE THIS ONE IS RIGHT. LISTEN TO HIM. HE IS RIGHT, AND THE REST OF YOU ARE WRONG." The remaining three Jews who had not prayed to God directly for an answer remained stunned for a second about what had just transpired, and then one of them turned to his very satisfied friend and said "Okay...so now it's two against three; so what?" :)

2. When I ask, "How do I get the Holy Spirit?", I'm often told I need to pray or accept/welcome/invite Jesus (or some variatoin of that). But why would I do that when I don't believe yet? It's almost like in order to truly believe in Christianity, I have to understand the Bible, but to understand the Bible, I have to already believe.

But you don't have to first understand the Bible. Again, that makes no sense if you look back into history and consider those times and places and peoples who would have had no exposure to the Bible. The Bible itself tells us that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10). Interestingly, the same St. Paul who wrote that to the Romans had the following exchange with the Ephesians that ended with their receiving of the Holy Spirit: "He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit... When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied" (Acts 19:1-6).

So they did not receive the Holy Spirit upon believing (as they themselves said, they had not even heard of such), but at baptism by the laying on of hands. The chronology here appears to be that they first believed, and through their belief came to be baptized, at which time they received the Holy Spirit. Granted, there are other verses wherein we are told that no one can say that Christ is Lord but by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3), and confessing Christ as Lord is essential belief, so I guess that might appear to be something of a contradiction, but I think that's kind of the point: That these people do not believe of themselves (in other words, they are not rationally convinced or whatever; faith is not a matter of rational head knowledge, as any atheist will be happy to tell you ;)), but rather are brought to belief by the Holy Spirit working in them (Who they then receive at baptism, in Christianity). There is precedent for this, e.g., in the OT when Moses is told to take off his sandals because he standing upon holy ground (in Exodus 3, when he encounters the Lord in the burning bush). The situation here is that Moses has his own idea of how to approach this phenomenon ("I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn"), and God Himself calls out to Moses, telling him "Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground."

It is with this kind of thinking that we pray the following in the Coptic Agpeya (the book of hourly prayers for the day), under the title "The Faith of the Church":

One is God the Father of everyone.

One is His Son, Jesus Christ the Word, Who took flesh and died; and rose from the dead on the third day, and raised us with Him.

One is the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, one in His Hypostasis, proceeding from the Father, purifying the whole creation, and teaching us to worship the Holy Trinity, one in divinity and one in essence. We praise Him and bless Him forever. Amen.


+++

"Teaching us to worship the Holy Trinity" -- this is directly from God, in our belief, not a matter of who has asked for what, or how anyone understands things themselves. If someone were to ask to not worship the Holy Trinity (Lord have mercy), it would make no difference, as there are certain things established of God, not by our asking for them or being persuaded into them, but by His direct intervention in our community.

3. Again, if one must have the "Holy Spirit" to understand scripture, isn't it a waste of time for Christians to proselytize by citing lots of scripture? As a non-Christian without the "Holy Spirit", I can't understand it anyway, right?

Thanks in advance.

Depending on how it is introduced, I think it could be a waste, yes. I think just citing a bunch of scripture to someone who does not recognize it as anything is not likely to be effective. I've cited it above only because I know that if I'm going to say that there is precedent here or there, I should probably be able to show on what basis I'm claiming that (not because I think you personally see the scriptures as having authority).

But on the general topic, again, St. Mark didn't come to Egypt with a bunch of scripture: he came with experience and a willingness to share that with others, so as to show how the Christ they followed back in the Holy Land was the Messiah and the risen Lord. I don't know how effective such a thing would be in our modern world, where people tend to have a much more "show me" kind of attitude, but is nevertheless still the primary way of doing things. Anyone can quote a book, and as no religious text is self-interpreting, you're bound to get into some kind of pointless 'Bible fights' with people who can quote scripture with the best of them, and yet still disagree with you. This is no new observation, either. The influential third-century Roman Christian apologist (and later convert to Montanism) Tertullian put it in the following way:

"Our appeal, therefore, must not be made to the Scriptures; nor must controversy be admitted on points in which victory will either be impossible, or uncertain, or not certain enough. But even if a discussion from the Scriptures should not turn out in such a way as to place both sides on a par, (yet) the natural order of things would require that this point should be first proposed, which is now the only one which we must discuss: “With whom lies that very faith to which the Scriptures belong. From what and through whom, and when, and to whom, has been handed down that rule, by which men become Christians?” For wherever it shall be manifest that the true Christian rule and faith shall be, there will likewise be the true Scriptures and expositions thereof, and all the Christian traditions." (source)
 
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Serving Zion

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Hello there,

Over in the Christianity & World Religions forum, I've often heard the expression that I can't understand scripture unless I "have the Holy Spirit", or that the "Holy Spirit must dwell within me" (or some variation of that). To be honest, I feel it's a cop out; a reason to dismiss alternative scriptural interpretations or arguments without having to expend any effort considering them. I'm hoping some Christians have some time to clarify this expression by providing some input to the following questions.
There is truth in the premise, but you are right that it is sometimes a cop-out. Most are passionate about their religion and when they turn to say such a thing, are in a mode of defending their position. Having said that, a spirit that claims to be The Holy Spirit is not necessarily so (1 John 4:1-3).

So, consider then, what is a spirit? .. and then when we realise that a spirit expresses itself through the human (a "vessel"), then we are led to view the spirit as being something distinct from the human soul (the "self").

When scripture states that "God is love", then we are bound to agree that only a person who is operating of love can express The Holy Spirit.

In a Christian sense, we define love as being the nature of a human who is without sin, because we recognise that sin is always manifested when a person has chosen their own interests over and above that which would keep them sanctified in God's sight.

I like to analyse sin according to the Seven Deadly Sins, because it is easy to distinguish and categorise them that way, and to do so always shows how the self's interest has won over the conscience.

A person who is behaving in sin is behaving in a way that is opposed to holiness (sinlessness). When a person is reading the scripture accordingly, their view of the meaning of the scripture is inevitably distorted in order to fit their sinful preference, because the opposite effect is to receive The Holy Spirit's conviction and become more Christ-like. Obviously, Christianity is suffering from that: James 3:14-18, Jeremiah 50:6-7.

If a person loves the truth enough (and what incentive do they have?), then they will always let go of whatever it is that tempts them to believe opposite to the truth. This is the meaning of the expression "crucify the flesh with it's passions", and "deny himself, take up his cross and follow me", that you can see, not a majority of Christians have achieved.
1. If the Bible is meant to set God's expectations for everyone, provide a proper road map for life, and be the key to Jesus, and therefore, heaven, isn't this requirement of "having the Holy Spirit" self-defeating? With everyone's eternal soul on the line, shouldn't the Bible be readily understandable by anyone, and especially non-Christians?
As I have shown, that it is in fact readily understandable by anyone and especially Christians, if those ones are willing to completely let go of whatever it is that is preventing them from receiving the full and proper meaning of what the writer was saying (and this premise doesn't only apply to the scriptures, but you can see examples everywhere of people who are not effectively communicating, because the hearer is more interested in not receiving from the one who is speaking).

Passion and self-interest creates a bias, whereas forsaking the sin produces a total willingness to receive what The Holy Spirit is saying. (Keep in mind that English translations are subject to the same problem, so if the translator themselves is not holy, then their work is demonic - compromised by their sin).
2. When I ask, "How do I get the Holy Spirit?", I'm often told I need to pray or accept/welcome/invite Jesus (or some variatoin of that). But why would I do that when I don't believe yet? It's almost like in order to truly believe in Christianity, I have to understand the Bible, but to understand the Bible, I have to already believe.
I think that a willingness to believe is the key for you, but also to check the reliability of the idea that you are getting when you read. As an example, there is a possibility that a translation is saying something that the original writer didn't say, that you are justified to reject upon the grounds of justice, but unfortunately, if you believe that the thing you are rejecting is the bible when in fact it is a bad translation of it, then you have fallen as a victim to the devil's scheme and chosen a path that you wouldn't have chosen if you had known better. (Consider Mark 3:25, Luke 11:21-23).
3. Again, if one must have the "Holy Spirit" to understand scripture, isn't it a waste of time for Christians to proselytize by citing lots of scripture? As a non-Christian without the "Holy Spirit", I can't understand it anyway, right?
That's up to you, mostly. (.. you are the reader!)

Another point of relevance, is the quality of the one who is handling the scripture:

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another builds on it. But let each consider carefully how he builds on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is already laid[c]—which is Yeshua the Messiah. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear. For the Day will show it, because it is to be revealed by fire; and the fire itself will test each one’s work—what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15

What if one sincerely seeks the divine without any preconceived ideas and ends up following an entirely different religion?
It can only be due to the information that one has encountered, that has failed to bring that one to the knowledge of who Christ is (John 14:6, John 10:16). If everyone was equipped with the quality of information while being in holy spirit, the would be led to all the knowledge of the truth (John 16:13).
I would think an intermediate step, such as the Church, would be less efficient. Being composed of fallible people would also make it prone to corruption and/or unintentional error. Beyond the scope of this thread, but another question I often considered was why god would rely on angels, prophets, and churches at all.
They are there, and He does not desire to kill anyone (because He is The Holy and Everlasting One). So, He has to use them, but it is up to us what we make of them, and what effectiveness we present ourselves to be as likewise being an instrument to Him.
There's still plenty of meaning to take away, but I confess not likely to accept, "you need to do X, Y, and Z or believe A, B, and C" just because the Bible says so.
It's back-to-front to think like that. It is more that "because X, Y and Z are necessary, the bible says so". Look into the meaning of John 21:25, along the lines of John 12:35 and Acts 7:57-58 - and notice what The Holy Spirit says through the original language that is not so well conveyed through all the English translations - and our question is "why could the world not have space for them"? (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=are+they+not+written+book+kings&qs_version=TLV).
 
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Sanoy

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I think to an extent that is true, but not generally. If you look at the NT where they quote the OT as prophecy some of these quotes would not be understood in the OT as referring to the Messiah. For instance the verse quoted for the virgin birth was fulfilled in the OT (the word for virgin more commonly means a young woman). All those Hebrew prophecy followers that lived before Christ had that verse checked off as fulfilled prophecy. But if they were filled by the Holy Spirit they would have seen that God had a hidden layer to this Prophecy and meant it for two time periods. There are some layers you will not see without the Holy Spirit, but generally all you need to understand the literal written message is a good Bible translation.

I haven't read these threads but I think what they are getting at is that when a heart is turning toward God the Holy Spirit helps a person in understanding and seeing the truth.
 
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