Understanding key differences: Christian conservatism vs. Christian nationalism

[Vambram]

Understanding key differences: Christian conservatism vs. Christian nationalism

Nearly all self-identified Christian Nationalists are Calvinists, typically Presbyterian like Wolfe, but often theologically Reformed Baptists like the subjects of the Politico article

www.christianpost.com

Most of what is written about Christian Nationalism is silly. Critics and analysts sweepingly deride conventional Christian conservatives as Christian Nationalists. By some counts, there are, by this definition, tens of millions of Christian Nationalists. Sometimes even civil religion, with its homage to a vague deity, is labeled Christian Nationalism. If so, all presidents from George Washington to Joe Biden are Christian nationalists. Sometimes the target is folk religionists who conflate God and country.

They sometimes sport paraphernalia with American flags draped around the cross. These folk religionists typically aren’t aware they are Christian nationalists. They don’t publish articles, much less books. And they typically don’t have policy agendas, just an attitude that God and country should be interchangeably honored.

But some more intellectual Americans do consciously self-identify as Christian Nationalists. Politico has published an article about two of them. But unhelpfully the article does not explain distinctions and, like a hundred other articles, focuses on a combination of Christian conservative and New Right views held by their subjects without defining why they call themselves Christian Nationalists.

Christian Nationalism is distinct from conventional Christian conservatism. The former are typically post-liberals who want some level of explicit state-established Christianity. The latter have been and largely still are classical liberals who affirm traditional American concepts of full religious liberty for all. Both groups want a “Christian America.” But the former want it by statute. The latter see it as mainly a demographic, historical, and cultural reality.

 

[BCP1928]

Understanding key differences: Christian conservatism vs. Christian nationalism

Nearly all self-identified Christian Nationalists are Calvinists, typically Presbyterian like Wolfe, but often theologically Reformed Baptists like the subjects of the Politico article

www.christianpost.com

Most of what is written about Christian Nationalism is silly. Critics and analysts sweepingly deride conventional Christian conservatives as Christian Nationalists. By some counts, there are, by this definition, tens of millions of Christian Nationalists. Sometimes even civil religion, with its homage to a vague deity, is labeled Christian Nationalism. If so, all presidents from George Washington to Joe Biden are Christian nationalists. Sometimes the target is folk religionists who conflate God and country.

They sometimes sport paraphernalia with American flags draped around the cross. These folk religionists typically aren’t aware they are Christian nationalists. They don’t publish articles, much less books. And they typically don’t have policy agendas, just an attitude that God and country should be interchangeably honored.

But some more intellectual Americans do consciously self-identify as Christian Nationalists. Politico has published an article about two of them. But unhelpfully the article does not explain distinctions and, like a hundred other articles, focuses on a combination of Christian conservative and New Right views held by their subjects without defining why they call themselves Christian Nationalists.

Christian Nationalism is distinct from conventional Christian conservatism. The former are typically post-liberals who want some level of explicit state-established Christianity. The latter have been and largely still are classical liberals who affirm traditional American concepts of full religious liberty for all. Both groups want a “Christian America.” But the former want it by statute. The latter see it as mainly a demographic, historical, and cultural reality.

It's a distinction without a difference to most of us.

 

[Vambram]

It's a distinction without a difference to most of us.

I truly believe that there is a very distinct difference.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's a distinction without a difference to most of us.

I think it's a difference worth distinguishing. I try to be careful before applying the "Christian Nationalist" label to anyone.

There is a similar distinction that I have expressed before: "Christian Nation" versus "nation of Christians". The United States is without doubt a nation of Christians (65%+), but it is a secular nation not founded on Christianity, nor establishing Christianity (a Christian Nation). The US is a secular nation with a Christian majority.

 

[BCP1928]

I truly believe that there is a very distinct difference.

But it is not, as seen from the outside, much of a practical difference. Do not both groups consider themselves in a privileged position to require that what they believe to be sins should be criminalized by the state for non-Christian citizens?

 

[Vambram]

But it is not, as seen from the outside, much of a practical difference. Do not both groups consider themselves in a privileged position to require that what they believe to be sins should be criminalized by the state for non-Christian citizens?

No. We don't.
Unless you are talking about conservatives wanting children to NOT be groomed by drag queens, transgender activists, and LGBTQ activists.

 

[Vambram]

I think it's a difference worth distinguishing. I try to be careful before applying the "Christian Nationalist" label to anyone.

There is a similar distinction that I have expressed before: "Christian Nation" versus "nation of Christians". The United States is without doubt a nation of Christians (65%+), but it is a secular nation not founded on Christianity, nor establishing Christianity (a Christian Nation). The US is a secular nation with a Christian majority.

I thank you for your helpful post. But I do have an honest question for you.

If the USA was founded as a strictly secular nation, why did the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, The Federalist Papers, and many other writings of our nation's founding fathers make repeated references to God?

 

[JustOneWay]

The First Amendment is the law, and trumps any notes and writings.. The First Amendment provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. That is secularism. This should already be known to informed Americans.

 

[BCP1928]

No. We don't.
Unless you are talking about conservatives wanting children to NOT be groomed by drag queens, transgender activists, and LGBTQ activists.

That's fine, one example will do. Because it's against your religion you want to make it illegal for everybody.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I thank you for your helpful post. But I do have an honest question for you.

If the USA was founded as a strictly secular nation, why did the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, The Federalist Papers, and many other writings of our nation's founding fathers make repeated references to God?

The Constitution doesn't mention a god at all. It only references religion to prohibit the use of religion as a qualification for office. It is the law of the land and sets the US as a nation with a secular government.

The Declaration invokes vague, deistic creator, certainly not a trinity of any kind.

The Federalist is a long series of newspaper essays for persuasion from three different authors to the people of New York. They are not official documents of any kind.

Finally, Christians have been a major component of the American population from the beginning, of course many will reference their god in essays, letters, etc.

 

[Vambram]

First Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Vambram]

That's fine, one example will do. Because it's against your religion you want to make it illegal for everybody.

Are you suggesting that you don't have a problem with the sexual grooming of children?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The First Amendment is the law, and trumps any notes and writings.. The First Amendment provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. That is secularism. This should already be known to informed Americans.

Yes but they do not accept it. Ask anyone who is not "Christian"

 

[keith99]

I thank you for your helpful post. But I do have an honest question for you.

If the USA was founded as a strictly secular nation, why did the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, The Federalist Papers, and many other writings of our nation's founding fathers make repeated references to God?

The reference in the Declaration of Independence seems to me to be a political refutation of the idea that God appointed the King to rule. It is countered by claiming that God created all men equal.

And so it continues to this day with men claiming that their political position was ordained by God.

 

[BCP1928]

Are you suggesting that you don't have a problem with the sexual grooming of children?

I oppose the sexual grooming of children, but I suspect what I understand as "grooming" is not the same thing as you mean.

 

[Vambram]

I oppose the sexual grooming of children, but I suspect what I understand as "grooming" is not the same thing as you mean.

May I know how you define sexual grooming of children?

 

[BCP1928]

May I know how you define sexual grooming of children?

Gaining the confidence of a child for the purpose of inflicting physical sexual abuse. I think that's a standard definition. What's yours?

 

[Vambram]

Gaining the confidence of a child for the purpose of inflicting physical sexual abuse. I think that's a standard definition. What's yours?

I agree with that definition.

 

[A2SG]

I thank you for your helpful post. But I do have an honest question for you.

If the USA was founded as a strictly secular nation, why did the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, The Federalist Papers, and many other writings of our nation's founding fathers make repeated references to God?

The US Constitution mentions god once:

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,​

-- A2SG, and that's it....

 

[perplexed]

I truly believe that there is a very distinct difference.

Wow that is a big shock, I suppose I have totally misunderstood you.