Understanding God...

[PurelyIslam]

Thanks Alexei for ur great post..

This issue ofunderstanding Muslims' concept of God could be confusing to non-Muslims...Why? we Muslims believe in God's Oneness and Christian'sand they will commonly say there is no difference between Islam’s concept of God’s unity and Christianity’s; in spite of the fact they believe in trinity.

Now, this usually puts me in a state of confusion on how to best explain the difference. I know that this issue could be a little blurry to a lot of Christians. Anyways, I set off to search for a more researched understanding of Monotheism in Islam, and I just liked to share with all of you some of what I found:

___________________________________________
​

The Fundamentals of ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM
​

ISLAMIC Monotheism in Arabic is called TAWHEED

Tawheed = “Unification” or “Asserting Oneness”

When TAWHEED is used in reference to Allah, it means the realizing and maintaining of Allah’s unity in all of man’s actions which directly or indirectly relate to Him.


The three categories of Tawheed are commonly referred to by the following titles:

1. Tawheed ar-Ruboobeeyah
(lit. "Maintaining the Unity of Lordship")

2. Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat
(lit. "Maintaining the Unity of Allaah's Names and Attributes")

3. Tawheed al-'Ebaadah
(lit. "Maintaining the Unity of Allaah's Worship")





1. Tawheed ar-Ruboobeeyah (lit. "Maintaining the Unity of Lordship")

One Without partner in His dominion and His actions.



Through this we understand that it is Allah who alone created the universe which is why one of his divine names is Al-Khaliq (the Creator). Through this we know that it is Allah alone who controls the universe and allows things to happen. This is why Allah refers to himself in the Qur'aan as Al-Malik (The Owner of the universe). Hence when something happens, it only happens with the permission of Allah:

"And no calamity strikes except with the permission of Allah"
(Surah At-Taghabun 64:11)
​

The prophet Muhammed (saws) further elaborated on this concept of Allah's control over the universe by saying: "Be aware that if the whole of mankind gathered together in order to do something to help you they would only be able to do something for you which Allah had already written for you. Likewise, if the whole of mankind gathered together to harm you, they would only be able to do something to harm you which Allah had already written to happen to you". [6]

We know that another name, which Allah chooses to call himself by, is Ar-Razzaq (the Sustainer). It is Allah who provides us with our food, shelter, clothing, families and friends. When our crops seem to be dying and there is not a cloud in sight, it is Allah who sends down His rain from the skies and sustains us.

"Allah created all things and He is the agent upon which all things depend"
(Surah Az-Zumar 39:62)
​

From this you would expect that people would turn back to Allah for good or bad fortune.

2. Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat (lit. "Maintaining the Unity of Allaah's Names and Attributes")

One Without similitude in His essence and attributes.

Allah says in the Qur'aan:

"Allah there is no God but He. To Him belong the most beautiful names"
(Surah Ta-Ha 20:8)
​

This category of tawheed helps us to understand who our Creator is through His Names and Attributes. Through His Names and Attributes we know that Allah is far beyond our imagination and bears no resemblance to human beings. In fact it is this principle which makes Islam unique from all the other religions on the face of this earth. Allah says in the Qur'aan:

"There is nothing like Him and He hears and sees all things"
(Surah Ash-Shura 42:11)
​

It is in this verse that a distinction is made between those who truly worship their Creator and those who worship the creation. The most prominent example of this is that of the Christians. They claim that Jesus (as) was God, this negates the Tawheed of Allah's Names and Attributes because it degrades the Creator (whom the Christians say was Jesus) to the level of human beings and gives Him those weaknesses which humans possess. It is known from the bible that Jesus ate, drank, felt tired, slept and did all the things which normal humans do. So how is it right for the Christians to say that god lowered himself to the level of humans? As Muslims we say 'Allah is above such imperfection' (subhanallah) and rather it is us weak humans who need to turn to this perfect lord and Creator.



3. Tawheed al-'Ebaadah (lit. "Maintaining the Unity of Allaah's Worship")

One Without rival in His Divinity and in Worship.

It is this aspect of tawheed which it could be said is the most important. It is through this that we learn how to worship our Creator alone. Allah is not the kind of god who does not respond or hear your calls. He is not the kind of god who needs some sort of middleman to take our prayers up to Him. Rather Allah says:

"And your lord said : Call on me and I will answer you"
(Surah Ghafir 40:60)
​

There is nothing to prevent a person from calling directly upon Allah and asking for His help and forgiveness. Unfortunately this is violated by most of mankind who believe that other men can intercede for them and even grant them forgiveness because of their apparent special status! An example of this is the Catholic religion which holds that the celibate priests are more purer then normal people. This allows for them to then hear the confessions of people's sins and subsequently grant them forgiveness. It is this kind of behaviour which takes a person away from the worship of Allah to the worship of man.



The omission of any of the above mentioned aspects of TAWHEED is referred to as “Shirk” . (lit. sharing) ; the association of partners with Allah, which in Islamic terms, is in fact idolatry.

urs in Islam..PurelyIslam

 

[Kas]

It is known from the bible that Jesus ate, drank, felt tired, slept and did all the things which normal humans do. So how is it right for the Christians to say that god lowered himself to the level of humans?

You have heard this before I am sure, but it is worth pointing out again. We believe in a GOD who is love and in that love He lowered Himself to become a man! A point we are not ashamed of, for our GOD is not so unloving as to be aloof from His creation, which for us we believe that He created out of love. It is right because GOD did it, it is GODly because GOD did it, and for me, it is the surest sign of His love.

Tell me, Love is not proud!


so to answer...out of love!

Peace,
Kas.

 

[Kas]

Well, actually I would still like this issue resolving myself. When I was considering Islam, my moslem missionary friends often made much of this charge that:

a) Christian could not count!
b) Were confused as to whetherthey believed that Jesus was GOD or the Son of GOD
c) Believed in more than one GOD

Through investigation I later found that actually all of these were false claims.

Christian believ in One GOD, they know how to count to one! They believe that this one GOD has revealed Himself in three persons, and they knew how to count to three!-funny that! They also, knew that calling Jesus the SON of GOD had to theological meanings, first it was reference4 to the realationship of FARTHER to SON within the devine Trinity and secondly it was an affirmation of the Divinity of the Christ!-Yet my Msolem friends always tried to make this into something more than what was plain and simple.

However, on further investigation of Islam, I came across something that really I found quite perplexing. That is the doctrine of the eternal nature of the Quran! That is the Quran is eternal-always has been-always will be-now if I am reading right, the Quran shows that-eternal is an attribute of Allah!

So if Allah is eteranal
and the Quran is eternal

surely that is Shirk-I asked the imaam he did not have an answer!
I asked my friends they did not have answer!

So my question is, is the eternal nature of the Quran shared with the eternal nature of Allah, or rather is the eternal nature of the Quran seperate from the eternal nature of Allah?

Peace,
Kas.

 

[rebazar]

Hence when something happens, it only happens with the permission of Allah:

"And no calamity strikes except with the permission of Allah"
(Surah At-Taghabun 64:11)
​

The prophet Muhammed (saws) further elaborated on this concept of Allah's control over the universe by saying: "Be aware that if the whole of mankind gathered together in order to do something to help you they would only be able to do something for you which Allah had already written for you. Likewise, if the whole of mankind gathered together to harm you, they would only be able to do something to harm you which Allah had already written to happen to you". [6]

So, what is the point of living if everything is already predestined for you ? Where does your FREE WILL come into play ? How can a person SIN if Allah controls and is responsible for everything ?? Should we thank him for all the wars, killings, murders and rapes ??


Cheers

 

[Mephster]

This issue ofunderstanding Muslims' concept of God could be confusing to non-Muslims...Why? we Muslims believe in God's Oneness and Christian'sand they will commonly say there is no difference between Islam’s concept of God’s unity and Christianity’s; in spite of the fact they believe in trinity.

The omission of any of the above mentioned aspects of TAWHEED is referred to as “Shirk” . (lit. sharing) ; the association of partners with Allah, which in Islamic terms, is in fact idolatry.

urs in Islam..PurelyIslam

Basically, the whole discussion turns on the meaning of "PARTNERS" because no Christian on earth is going to admit or adhere to any doctrine which ascribes "partners" to God. (God - here meaning the Almighty Creator).

The subtle distinction here is that "trinity" is meant (usually) to signify three completely distinct, individual, and separate beings. So yes, when "trinity" is used in that sense, it does seem like Christianity ascribes "partners" to God. Helpers/assistants/partners, etc.

However, this is not the Christian teaching of the nature of God. (Cp. Summa Theologiae by St. Thomas Aquinas; Exposition on Orthodox Faith St. John of Damascus; and the writings of St. Athanasius.) Observe the wording of the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible......​

Further with regard to Docetism and Arius' heresies, it is clear that the Church has continuously avoided the claims that the Islamic "shirk" seeks to convict the Church of.

But Christianity itself has compounded the problem with poor translations of the New Testament. Most editions that I see read something like "was born" (speaking of Jesus), when if one examines old (and I mean OLD) editions of the N.T. the term "INCARNATE" is used. Some may think this is mere semantics, but in theology, semantics is a gigantic issue.

 

[Kas]

Basically, the whole discussion turns on the meaning of "PARTNERS" because no Christian on earth is going to admit or adhere to any doctrine which ascribes "partners" to God. (God - here meaning the Almighty Creator).

The subtle distinction here is that "trinity" is meant (usually) to signify three completely distinct, individual, and separate beings. So yes, when "trinity" is used in that sense, it does seem like Christianity ascribes "partners" to God. Helpers/assistants/partners, etc.

However, this is not the Christian teaching of the nature of God. (Cp. Summa Theologiae by St. Thomas Aquinas; Exposition on Orthodox Faith St. John of Damascus; and the writings of St. Athanasius.) Observe the wording of the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible......​

Further with regard to Docetism and Arius' heresies, it is clear that the Church has continuously avoided the claims that the Islamic "shirk" seeks to convict the Church of.

But Christianity itself has compounded the problem with poor translations of the New Testament. Most editions that I see read something like "was born" (speaking of Jesus), when if one examines old (and I mean OLD) editions of the N.T. the term "INCARNATE" is used. Some may think this is mere semantics, but in theology, semantics is a gigantic issue.

Mephster, we have not seen you round here for a while, good to have you back!

Thankyou for your statements, I hope that this will clear up any misundertsnading concerning the complete monotheistic beliefs of Christians.

(In that we are and vehemently deffend a belief in one GOD, to Him we surrender and to Him do we worship alone, the craetor of the worlds, the most magnificent the most merciful)

I thik that part of the problem come (not just from unhelpful translations) but also, from Theological terms, which in their own time and context were adequate at deffending and clarifying beliefs of GOD oneness and the fact that there is only one GOD, but in our time, removed from the heresys' they were designed to fend off, can now be construed to be something different.

e.g: Theotokos-a Christological staement designed to deffend the Orthodox understanding of the incarnation.

Trinity-Theological statement designed to help encapsulate Orthodox beliefs about Almighty GOD

SON of GOD-see above post!

All of these terms in the modern mind conjure up images far removed from the context that brought them to birth. Perhaps it would aid discussion if this was remembered when discussing Christian Monotheism vis-a-vis Islamic perceptions of Christian beliefs.

I think that part of the problem is modern mindset that demands 'proof texts' something very novel indeed in world history. Christianity has from its inceptions always seen authority as laying outside of Scripture, it is an intrinsic part of our faith, Scripture solely being the foundation, is its self only a recent and modern inception, and is far remioved in its modern forms than from what Luther was fassioning.

To be unwilling to engage in this reality in its own terms is not to engage with Christianity at all!

Peace and love,
Kas.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

It is known from the bible that Jesus ate, drank, felt tired, slept and did all the things which normal humans do. So how is it right for the Christians to say that god lowered himself to the level of humans?

If you can pass this islamic stumbling block, you may start to see things different, I am just saying "islamic" stumbling block because I had the same views, what I previously believed caused me to doubt and refuse what I clearly believe now.

Philippians 2

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Basically, the whole discussion turns on the meaning of "PARTNERS" because no Christian on earth is going to admit or adhere to any doctrine which ascribes "partners" to God. (God - here meaning the Almighty Creator).

The subtle distinction here is that "trinity" is meant (usually) to signify three completely distinct, individual, and separate beings. So yes, when "trinity" is used in that sense, it does seem like Christianity ascribes "partners" to God. Helpers/assistants/partners, etc.

However, this is not the Christian teaching of the nature of God. (Cp. Summa Theologiae by St. Thomas Aquinas; Exposition on Orthodox Faith St. John of Damascus; and the writings of St. Athanasius.) Observe the wording of the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible......​

Further with regard to Docetism and Arius' heresies, it is clear that the Church has continuously avoided the claims that the Islamic "shirk" seeks to convict the Church of.

But Christianity itself has compounded the problem with poor translations of the New Testament. Most editions that I see read something like "was born" (speaking of Jesus), when if one examines old (and I mean OLD) editions of the N.T. the term "INCARNATE" is used. Some may think this is mere semantics, but in theology, semantics is a gigantic issue.

I liked your post! Good job.

 

[Arthra]

The Baha'i view as I understand it is that God is Unknowable... We cannot from our perpsective as humans understand or grasp what God is like:

"To every discerning and illuminated heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the Divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress. Far be it from His glory that human tongue should adequately recount His praise, or that human heart comprehend His fathomless mystery..."

- Baha'u'llah

but God is knowable to a degree through His Manifestations to mankind.

God does not incarnate Himself:

".... the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality--that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes--became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied--for the Sun is one--but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, "The Father is in the Son," meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror."

- Abdul-Baha in "Some Answered Questions"



God's attributes can be seen through turning to His Prophets and Messengers:

"These sanctified Mirrors, these Day Springs of ancient glory, are, one and all, the Exponents on earth of Him Who is the central Orb of the universe, its Essence and ultimate Purpose. From Him proceed their knowledge and power; from Him is derived their sovereignty. The beauty of their countenance is but a reflection of His image, and their revelation a sign of His deathless glory. They are the Treasuries of Divine knowledge, and the Repositories of celestial wisdom."

- Baha'u'llah

The God of the Bible is identical in our view to Allah in the Qur'an and is the source of the religions.

- Art

 

[Kas]

The doctrine of the eternal nature of the Quran! That is the Quran is eternal-always has been-always will be-now if I am reading right, the Quran shows that-eternal is an attribute of Allah!

So if Allah is eteranal
and the Quran is eternal

surely that is Shirk-I asked the imaam he did not have an answer!
I asked my friends they did not have answer!

So my question is, is the eternal nature of the Quran shared with the eternal nature of Allah, or rather is the eternal nature of the Quran seperate from the eternal nature of Allah?

Peace,
Kas.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

The doctrine of the eternal nature of the Quran! That is the Quran is eternal-always has been-always will be-now if I am reading right, the Quran shows that-eternal is an attribute of Allah!

So if Allah is eteranal
and the Quran is eternal

surely that is Shirk-I asked the imaam he did not have an answer!
I asked my friends they did not have answer!

So my question is, is the eternal nature of the Quran shared with the eternal nature of Allah, or rather is the eternal nature of the Quran seperate from the eternal nature of Allah?

Peace,
Kas.

Salutations.

The Glorious Quran is the word of God.

In Islam, the Speech of Allah is one of His (the Mighty the Majestics) attributes. Therefore it has always been with him eternally and it is not created.

This is a very important concept and many have gone astray regarding this.

 

[rebazar]

Hence when something happens, it only happens with the permission of Allah:

"And no calamity strikes except with the permission of Allah"
(Surah At-Taghabun 64:11)
​

The prophet Muhammed (saws) further elaborated on this concept of Allah's control over the universe by saying: "Be aware that if the whole of mankind gathered together in order to do something to help you they would only be able to do something for you which Allah had already written for you. Likewise, if the whole of mankind gathered together to harm you, they would only be able to do something to harm you which Allah had already written to happen to you". [6]

So, what is the point of living if everything is already predestined for you ? Where does your FREE WILL come into play ? How can a person SIN if Allah controls and is responsible for everything ?? Should we thank him for all the wars, killings, murders and rapes ??


P.S. I am re-posting this because I really would like an answer to this question. Please give me your opinion on this . Thanx.


</FONT>Cheers</FONT>

 

[Kas]

Salutations.

The Glorious Quran is the word of God.

In Islam, the Speech of Allah is one of His (the Mighty the Majestics) attributes. Therefore it has always been with him eternally and it is not created.

This is a very important concept and many have gone astray regarding this.

So does that mean that the Quran shares in the eternal nature of Allah and has no eternal nature seperate from Allah?

Also, what of the stone tablets which I have heard that the mother of the book is said to exist on in heaven.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer my questions!

Peace,
Kas.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

So does that mean that the Quran shares in the eternal nature of Allah and has no eternal nature seperate from Allah?

Also, what of the stone tablets which I have heard that the mother of the book is said to exist on in heaven.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer my questions!

Peace,
Kas.

Salutations,

I thought it would have been quite obvious from my previous post.

The Quran whether is it written down or recited is the Speech of God, it is an attribute of Him.

All of Gods have attributes have been with Him and he is the First and the Last, none of the Attributes are created.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

he is the First and the Last

Yep, amen! Just like Jesus said in Revelations.

 

[crystalpc]

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So, what is the point of living if everything is already predestined for you ? Where does your FREE WILL come into play ? How can a person SIN if Allah controls and is responsible for everything ?? Should we thank him for all the wars, killings, murders and rapes ??


P.S. I am re-posting this because I really would like an answer to this question. Please give me your opinion on this . Thanx.


</FONT>Cheers</FONT>

The Christian doctrine of predestination, is two fold, and deals more with foreknowledge than the predestination that I believe Islam teaches.
We are all born with a free will, God never overrides our free will. He give us the freedom to make choices to make in this life, the right ones lead to life, the wrong ones lead to death.
Although as Christians we are saved from sin, we may not be saved from bad choices. Scripture tells us the way of the sinner is hard.
Keep asking your questions..they show a willingness to learn.

 

[crystalpc]

To all who answered the Incarnation post. I was so glad to see this here, and I enjoyed seeing the post preceding it. It brought me into a deeper study. Thank you.

 

[Kas]

he is the First and the Last,

He certainly is that Amen and Amen!!!

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.


Peace,
Kas.

 

[Kas]

Salutations,

I thought it would have been quite obvious from my previous post.

The Quran whether is it written down or recited is the Speech of God, it is an attribute of Him.

All of Gods have attributes have been with Him and he is the First and the Last, none of the Attributes are created.

OK on the first point, so therefore since the Quran is distinct from Allah there is a duality within the oneness of Allah! After all the Quran is not Allah, and Allah is not the Quran!

The only other explanation is that the Quran is not seperate from Allah, thus Allah is one, but is constantly proceeding from Allah and thus constantly distinct!

Which of these two versions is more accurate a discription of Islamic Taweed!

Secondly, could you comment upon the belief that the Quran exists eternally upon stone tablets in heaven: this being called the mother of the book!-clarification please.

Peace,
Kas(who is greatful for your paitence in this matter!)

 

[rebazar]

Purelyislam wrote:

Through this we understand that it is Allah who alone created the universe which is why one of his divine names is Al-Khaliq (the Creator). Through this we know that it is Allah alone who controls the universe and allows things to happen. This is why Allah refers to himself in the Qur'aan as Al-Malik (The Owner of the universe). Hence when something happens, it only happens with the permission of Allah:

"And no calamity strikes except with the permission of Allah"​

(Surah At-Taghabun 64:11)

The prophet Muhammed (saws) further elaborated on this concept of Allah's control over the universe by saying: "Be aware that if the whole of mankind gathered together in order to do something to help you they would only be able to do something for you which Allah had already written for you. Likewise, if the whole of mankind gathered together to harm you, they would only be able to do something to harm you which Allah had already written to happen to you".

rebazar asked:

So, what is the point of living if everything is already predestined for you ? Where does your FREE WILL come into play ? How can a person SIN if Allah controls and is responsible for everything ?? Should we thank him for all the wars, killings, murders and rapes ??

P.S. I am re-posting this because I really would like an answer to this question. Please give me your opinion on this . Thanx.

crystalpc answered:

The Christian doctrine of predestination, is two fold, and deals more with foreknowledge than the predestination that I believe Islam teaches.
We are all born with a free will, God never overrides our free will. He give us the freedom to make choices to make in this life, the right ones lead to life, the wrong ones lead to death.
Although as Christians we are saved from sin, we may not be saved from bad choices. Scripture tells us the way of the sinner is hard.
Keep asking your questions..they show a willingness to learn.

Thanx for your answer crystalpc but I really wanted an answer to the original post which claims that ; "No calamity strikes except with the permission of Allah".
Maybe Purelyislam, or any other Muslim brother, would like to answer? Thanx.


Cheers