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What science do I deny that says I can't use a computer?
And in fact, it's the other way around.
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
I hold the science of computing up to a Higher Standard that you, in your current state (atheism), wouldn't dare go.
I'll assume I'm not denying science then.That's easy. We don't even need science. We need logic.
Do you, by any chance, have a Defender's Study Bible?Subduction Zone said:Now that is clearly false. You are now merely abusing the Bible. Adding open blasphemy by mistranslating the Bible does not do your case any good at all.
Even more of a travesty of scripture than Scofield's.I'll assume I'm not denying science then.Do you, by any chance, have a Defender's Study Bible?
(I didn't think so.)
I'll assume I'm not denying science then.
Do you, by any chance, have a Defender's Study Bible?
(I didn't think so.)
So you deny the Fourth Commandment.I....have both the scientific sense and the literary sophistication to (1) accept evolution;
So far as I know, there is not a single Hebrew scholar who would agree with you. I know I don't, and because you can't produce a single passage of Scripture to support what you claim, the Scriptures don't either. How do you justify your belief in evolution and the utter rejection of most of the doctrine of Christianity? You DO realize that God seems to think He created the Heavens and the earth in six days, right?and (2) recognize the use of non-literal imagery in the Bible.
So you deny the Fourth Commandment.
You deny that God created Adam.
You deny that Adam's sin brought sin and death to the world.
You deny the genealogies of the Bible.
You deny that the Great Flood happened and believe that Jesus didn't know what he was taking about when He said it happened.
You deny the fallen nature of man, the consequence of man's sin, the condemnation of God for man's rebellion and the authority of God's word.
Why, then, did Jesus come into the world, suffer and die, then rise again? Kind of sounds like He should have talked to you first, right?
So far as I know, there is not a single Hebrew scholar who would agree with you. I know I don't, and because you can't produce a single passage of Scripture to support what you claim, the Scriptures don't either. How do you justify your belief in evolution and the utter rejection of most of the doctrine of Christianity? You DO realize that God seems to think He created the Heavens and the earth in six days, right?
Exodus 20: 8-11 Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.Which version? Keep holy the Sabbath? Or Honor thy father and mother?
Exodus 20: 8-11 Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
I like the lines:By the way do you keep the Sabbath? What day do you go to church?
I like the lines:
To our grandparents, it was the Holy Sabbath.
To our parents, it was Sunday.
To us, it's the weekend.
Moral entropy (gradualism) in action.
Your grandparents didn't enjoy life?You have it backwards. It is moral evolution if anything. Going from an immoral mindless following of writings of man to enjoying life.
Hi dave,
You responded to me:
I do appreciate and understand that. However, something sounding ludicrous to someone, while I'd certainly say whatever it is deserves more careful looking into, doesn't have any bearing on the truth. As I have pointed out, and yes, I know that you aren't going to agree because of the source material, but God's word has already warned me that the things of God are foolishness to those who are perishing. So, hopefully you can also appreciate and understand my position.
As I explained to others previously, I was once much like you, although I've always made a claim to 'be' a christian, I wasn't born again and, therefore, did not have access to the one who convicts an individual of the truth. I believed that mankind evolved and likely pretty much the way science explains to us that man has. But then I was born again. My entire worldview changed. My understanding of God and who He is and what He has done and His purpose in creating this realm all changed.
So, I understand what it's like to not believe the truth of the Scriptures. I also understand that, according to Jesus, most people aren't ever going to understand the things of God aright. I understand that because I believe that Jesus is the Son of the living God and that he came to us for the purpose of giving testimony to who God, his Father, is. As a part of that testimony he spoke of there being only two paths that each individual can take through this life. One is broad and many take that way. They live the life that their Creator has given them and they squander it just as the parable of the wayward son explains that he did. Oh, they don't know that they're squandering it. Just as the wayward son, they are living good in the neighborhood. Got good jobs and make good money and are honestly pretty satisfied with their lives on the whole. Have some friends and begin a family and are satisfied with these things. They aren't wicked, mean, spiteful people at all. They're just people living life. Enjoying all that life has to offer them.
The other way is narrow, and according to Jesus, few there be that find it. It is a life of love and adoration and understanding of what really matters in this life. Understanding that a loving Creator made all of this and desires to know each one of us and live with us for all eternity. Understanding that it is because He exists that we exist. That this existence didn't come about by a bunch of possible connections of the natural properties of the elements of this realm. They understand that this realm exists because of the careful planning and detail of one who created it all and will someday call each one of us to account.
For the first group of people. Well, they just go on living their lives and enjoying the bounty of the earth until one day... They don't even have a clue that such a day is coming. Most of them consider themselves to be biological entities which upon death cease to exist forever and that will be the end of it. But the Scriptures detail a very different future for all mankind. That all men will be raised up from death and face the judgment of their Creator. They will then be rewarded with an eternal existence commiserate with what they worked for in this life.
For me, this wake up call from God came about when I began to investigate the many prophecies of the Scriptures. Unlike some who find that they were not always precisely fulfilled, I found the opposite. I found that not only were they fulfilled pretty much exactly as the Scriptures foretold that they would be, but that some of them were most amazing in the amount of time that passed between the giving of the prophecy and the fulfilling of the prophecy that absolutely convinced me that there is a God and He does know the end from the beginning.
Specifically the prophecy found in the writings of Daniel chapter 9. For me, that prophecy is amazing in it's detail and in the fact that Daniel had no idea that any of the things foretold would ever come to pass. He didn't even know that there would be the event that started the clock ticking on the prophecy. It was yet another 50-100 years before the decree would be issued to rebuild and restore Jerusalem. Friend, that would be like you being told in 1940 that in 2017 a man by the name of Donald Trump would be elected President of the United States. Then, from the starting of that ticking clock, Daniel was given insight into a very specific period of time in which a couple of things would happen. The entire fulfillment of that prophecy was to take several hundred years, but precisely as everything was laid out to Daniel, everything came to be. For me, no man has that ability of prophecy. Only a God who loves what He has created would be able to tell the times of unfolding events so precisely and of things that are so important to what man needs to understand about this life that we have been given to live.
For me, only a Creator who made all things to be and cares about mankind that He has made, would be able to tell someone so accurately of unfolding events in the future.
From there, I was on my knees beseeching God to forgive me, just as the prodigal son pleaded to his father to forgive him for squandering away the precious life that he had been given. Asking Him to take me in. I then spent a number of hours in prayer over the next few weeks and months continually asking that God would give me wisdom and discernment of the truth through His Holy Spirit. The one who Jesus promised would lead those who were born again into all truth. God has answered that prayer.
Now, I fully understand that you don't believe that or agree with my source of truth. All I can tell you is that such a position is not unexpected and is, according to the Scriptures, the default position of mankind overall. But it doesn't have to be.
When God gave unto Israel the law, He said to them, "Heaven and earth are witnesses to you that I have set before you this day the way of life and the way of death...choose life! God has done the same thing for each of us. He has set forth, through His Scriptures, the way of life and the way of death. Each one is free to choose which way he wants to go.
God bless you,
In Christ, ted
Hi expos,
You answer your question to me as such:
You understand me correctly in those matters. The difference, though, is that I can see and reproduce and test the total outcome of those things. I can take two vehicles and set them up for an 'accident' and put one occupant belted and another not belted and physically see that the premise is correct that seat belts save lives. I can run that test every day for months and see the same outcome repeated over and over and over again. Based on such repetitive testing I can adopt the conclusion that seat belts save lives.
However, I can also tell you that if God so chooses to get involved in the outcome of such an accident, all bets are off as to what will happen to the occupants of the vehicles involved. The God I know, if He so chooses, can allow two vehicles to come together in a head on crash where both vehicles are traveling at 120 mph and both occupants walk away without a scratch. The God I know can allow the accident to happen and both occupants die and then raise either one or both back to life again.
So, the problem for me, with allowing science to tell me about things that they cannot observe happening, but can only make judgments about such things happening by extrapolating information that we know to be true today and likely have been true for a very, very long time; that they can only 'prove' by looking at little pieces of the puzzle and then making grandiose claims that these little pieces that we know to be true today explain the event, is that they all depend on the natural properties of things working as we know them to work. But, God has, as I mentioned above, shown evidence that when He gets involved in doing something upon the earth, the 'rule' of the natural properties of things that we know, goes out the window.
The greatest example of this is the birth of my Lord and Savior, Jesus. The Scriptures tell me that he was born of a virgin. Some 2,000 years ago before man even knew about invitro fertilization and such things, a woman who claims of herself to having never laid with a man, is pregnant. Now, friend, science will tell you that's impossible. Yet, I believe that it happened just as the Scriptures tell me. Why? Because God did it!! God's word explains to us that through His Holy Spirit He implanted in Mary's womb what was necessary for Jesus to be born. She didn't have sexual relations with anyone. She merely woke up one day and she was pregnant. By all of your scientific knowledge and wisdom, that's impossible.
God bless you,
In Christ, ted
As you correctly say Ted, I don't believe a word of it. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. I'll only ever find out if I was wrong, because when I'm dead that's it according to what I believe, but if i'm wrong it's eternal torment for me. My only small consolation will be that i'll be eternally tormented alongside all my family and friends, and some great people - Einstein, Gandhi, David Lloyd George, Churchill, David Attenbrough to name but some. To my way of thinking, the idea that god created this entire universe of billions of stars and planets and it existed for billions of years before humans came along, just so he could judge a few humans and have them in this bizarre place of everlasting life is ludicrous in the extreme. However, that's your faith and good luck to you.
Ted, it is perfectly possible that the scriptures say that Jesus was born of a virgin because that's what prophesy required, apart form the scriptures, written long after the event, there can be no evidence of virgin birth, hence I will say it was a hoax. Similarly, wasn't Jesus supposed to be of "Davids line"? Well as I understand the Bible, Joseph was of Davids line and given he wasn't the father (According to scripture) ten Jesus wasn't of Davids line and that part of the prophesy was not foretold.
One does not need to believe the fictional part of those verses to
keep the Sabbath. By the way do you keep the Sabbath? What day do you go to church?
That's because science is myopic.... there can be no evidence of virgin birth,
I think he wanted to know which day of the week you considered to be the Sabbath.Hi SZ,
There again, you show such little understanding of what God has said through His Scriptures. Observing the Sabbath is not about 'going to church'. The Sabbath is a day of rest. We can go to 'church' seven days a week and we will not have honored the law of Sabbath.
The Sabbath for man is a day of rest. The Sabbath for the ground is a year of rest.
God bless you,
In Christ, ted
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