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Understanding Adam and Eve in Calvinism

Matt Faith

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Hello, I am have recently embraced Calvinism as true. If I was in a conversation with an Arminian/inconsistent Arminian, and they said Adam had free will in the garden. How would I respond to this? Is the understanding that humans did originally have free will, but lost it in the fall? And how did God work out his plan in the garden exactly? I'd appreciate it if a more experienced Calvinist could explain their understand to me. Thank you.
 

twin1954

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Hello, I am have recently embraced Calvinism as true. If I was in a conversation with an Arminian/inconsistent Arminian, and they said Adam had free will in the garden. How would I respond to this? Is the understanding that humans did originally have free will, but lost it in the fall? And how did God work out his plan in the garden exactly? I'd appreciate it if a more experienced Calvinist could explain their understand to me. Thank you.
Adam didn't have a "free will" in the Garden because he was controlled by his desires and innocence just as we are today. Up until the Fall Adam was fully devoted to God and his choices were dictated by that devotion.

But we are clearly told by Paul in 1Tim. 2:14 that Adam was not deceived but Eve. Knowing that Adam was not deceived we can easily surmise that Adam knew exactly what he was doing and the consequences. He loved the woman and determined to die with her for he knew that was the penalty for eating the fruit of the tree God had withheld from them.

Now we also know that Eve could have eaten and not Adam and nothing would have happend except that God would have probably given Adam another woman to be his helpmeet. You see Adam was a Federal Head and represented all of his posterity by natural generation. When Adam sinned we all sinned in him. It is as though we had eaten the fruit ourselves. His disobedience is what plunged us all into sin and depravity.

But God is gracious and it was all according to His purpose of grace in Christ Jesus. Paul tells us in 2Tim. 1:9 that grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. If Adam hadn't fallen, because he desired the woman more than he desired God, we would know nothing of mercy, grace and the love of God in sending the Son into the world to accomplish our salvation. God didn't cause Adam to sin but He certainly put him in the position and under the circumstances that ensured that he would. God is not the author of sin but He is the one who determined before the world began to glorify Himself in sovereign mercy in Christ Jesus the Lord. He purposed all that is needed to bring about His purpose and has been working providentially to bring it to pass exactly as He determined before to be done.


If I can figure out how to do it I will post my sermon on the Federal Headship of Christ. I believe it will help you.
 
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AMR

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Hello, I am have recently embraced Calvinism as true. If I was in a conversation with an Arminian/inconsistent Arminian, and they said Adam had free will in the garden. How would I respond to this? Is the understanding that humans did originally have free will, but lost it in the fall? And how did God work out his plan in the garden exactly? I'd appreciate it if a more experienced Calvinist could explain their understand to me. Thank you.
God is the primary efficient cause of man’s actions. Man is the secondary efficient cause of his actions. Therefore, there are two efficient causes of human actions. After Adam, man’s "free will" (the liberty of spontaneity: the ability to choose according to one's greatest inclinations at the moment one chooses) piggybacks on the free will of God. All born-again men are able to sin or not to sin. All lost men are able to only sin more or sin less.

Two propositions result from this:

1. Adam ate the apple of his own free will.
2. God decreed that Adam would eat the apple of his own free will.

Before his sin, Adam was able to sin and able not to sin, but he did not yet have a sin nature. This is quite important: His nature was not neutral. There was nothing in his nature that in any way prompted him to sin; rather, his nature was righteous and he walked in righteous. He was not yet glorified however and Adam had the capability of sinning (and did), but we must not be mistaken about what this meant for him.

This did not mean that Adam was confronted with all sorts of temptations to sin or situations in which he had to choose not to sin before his encounter with the devil: mutable, earthy, Adam walked in righteousness, according to his nature, until he was confronted with Satan's temptation and succumbed. In fact all sin was comprehended in this sin, that is, that Adam sinned in every way by sinning in this way.

God does not know this particular evil as merely a possible evil, but as an actual evil because He decreed it to be so. It is not the case that God is the efficient cause and Adam is the instrumental cause of Adam’s sin. Both Adam and God are the efficient causes of Adam’s eating of the apple. Adam is not the instrument of God’s sinful action. Rather God is the efficient cause of Adam's free action (a freedom which is good, so established by a perfectly good God's decree), which results in the sin of Adam.

No doubt it may then be asked, If there are two efficient causes of Adam’s eating the apple, why is the primary efficient cause (God) not responsible for the sin, while the secondary efficient cause (Adam) is responsible for the sin?

The proper answer follows:

The motive which God has in actively permitting sin and the motive which man has in committing sin are radically different. Many are deceived in these issues because they fail to consider that God wills righteously those things which men do wickedly.

But we must always remind ourselves that God contracts no defilement or criminality from such agency. God is just in all His ways, and holy in all His works. While everything that occurs in God’s universe finds its account in God's positive ordering and active concurrence, yet the moral quality of the deed, considered in itself, is rooted in the moral character of the subordinate agent (Adam), acting in the circumstances and under the motives operative in each instance. God is not the author (the doer) of sin. Sin is embraced in His ordaining; it is accomplished in His providence. Yet Adam's sin and all sin is embraced in His decree and effected in His providence in such a way as to ensure that blame and guilt attach to the perpetrators of wrong and to them alone.

Blame attaches to actions, and actions are characterized by intentions. The truth of propositions 1 and 2 above includes the fact that Adam and God perform quite different actions:

1. Adam intentionally eats a fruit; God does not eat a fruit.
2. Adam knowingly breaks a divine command; God does not break one of His own commands.
3. God commanded that Adam should not eat the fruit; God did not command that He should not ordain (decree) that Adam should eat the fruit.

A clear biblical locus classicus for this sort of dual agency is the story of Joseph in Genesis... where Joseph says, “you intended it for evil, but God intended it for good."

Even if it cannot be shown how it is that God and man can be the cause of free actions, it does not follow that it is a contradiction. Moreso, per His decree to establish the liberty of spontaneity, God is required to cause free actions. God does not simply cause the existence of free will apart from the actions of free will. God’s causing (necessarily, freely, or contingently) the acts of free will is God’s providential sustaining of human free will (liberty of spontaneity). This is what it means by man’s free will piggybacks on God’s free will.

Nor is it the case that God’s free will overrides man’s free will. God does not overpower or compete with man’s free will. Again, the existence of human free will depends on God’s causing not just the fact of free will, but the acts of free will. That is how God sustains free will. For if God did not do so, humans would not be free creatures.
 
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JM

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I'm probably in the minority or overly blunt but I see Adam and Eve as having free will in the Garden, they were not forced to sin but did so freely and that their fall was determined by God. I don't see a contradiction at all.

GOD PREDETERMINED THE FALL OF ADAM; this fell under his decree, as all things do that come to pass in the world; there is nothing comes to pass without his determining will, “Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?” (Lam. 3:37), nothing is done, or can be done, God not willing it should be done: that the fall of Adam was by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God is certain; because the sufferings and death of Christ, by which is the redemption of men from that sin, and all others, were ordained before the foundation of the world; and which must have been precarious and uncertain, if Adam’s fall was not by a like decree (Acts 2:23; 4:28; 1 Pet. 1:20), but then neither the foreknowledge of God, nor any decree of God, laid Adam under a necessity of sinning; it is true, there arises from hence a necessity of immutability, that is, that the things God has decreed should unchangeably come to pass, but not a necessity of co-action or force; as Judas and the Jews sinned freely, the one in betraying, the other in putting Christ to death; so Adam sinned freely, without force or compulsion, notwithstanding any decree of God concerning him; so that these do not make God at all chargeable with being the author of his sin; he and he alone was the author of it. John Gill​

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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sdowney717

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Was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world?, or not.
Christ says if He makes you free, you will really and truly be free, (from sin).
Adam and Eve did not have Him abiding within them, so they were not really free from in their case the possibility of sin, were not sinful creatures yet. They were likely intelligent people.

Satan forces into Eve's mind confusion about what God had clearly said, as he does even today.
Deceivers are tricky folk.

Eve being deceived by Satan eats the fruit first and gave to Adam the fruit and Adam was not deceived by Satan, he made a deliberate wilful clear headed choice. Only after observing I suppose that Eve had not appeared to immediately perish, did he eat of it.
And it was not until after both had eaten that their eyes were opened to the understanding of good and evil.

So Adam also did not believe God when He said they would die if they ate the fruit.

Neither Adam or Eve truly believed what God had said will happen to them if they disobeyed that one rule He had.
Maybe they thought God was a push-over, and they could challenge what He said and get away with it, after all so had the Serpent.

They were not free of self desire and Satan had made them feel a sense something was lacking in their life, that God was holding back a truth, hiding from them that they could be like God was and they then after Satan had done his evil work, wanted to be like Him.

Genesis 3:6, hey eating this fruit really makes a lot of sense, let's do it! Satan your a smart fellow, I am glad you told me about this fruit, now I understand what God really meant! God wants us to be like Him and eat it.

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise,
 
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TaylorSexton

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I'm probably in the minority or overly blunt but I see Adam and Eve as having free will in the Garden.

I don't think you are in a minority. Here is the LBCF (1689), chapter 9, paragraph 2:

"Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God."
 
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Job8

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If I was in a conversation with an Arminian/inconsistent Arminian, and they said Adam had free will in the garden. How would I respond to this?
Do you believe in responding to others based upon some dogma, or based upon what Scripture actually reveals? The minute you make any theologian or theology the primary authority, you already have a problem.
 
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twin1954

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Not a Calvinist, but I will always firmly believe, at least as a general rule, man always has, and always will have free will...otherwise there would be no point to any of this age.
There is a difference between having a will and having a free will. We do not deny that man has a will and makes choices according to his desires and influences. What we deny is that man's will is free from the confinement of his fallen nature.

An analogy would be a frog in a snake's belly. The frog is free to jump in any direction that he wants but he cannot get out of the snake's belly. Man is trapped and confined by the fallen nature of depravity. That means that while he makes choices according to his desires and influences he cannot make choices outside of his fallen wicked nature which is sin.

(Pro 21:4) An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.


The point of this age is the glory of Christ Jesus the Lord in the salvation of chosen sinners. It has always been the point of every age and the point of eternity.

Your premise would make man the point of all things.
 
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Kenny'sID

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So, no offense, but what then did you expect to contribute to this thread?

The op had comment/questions on free will and I gave my general view on that. Why do you ask?

What do you expect to contribute, or are you just the on duty contribution police?

Sorry, but geez, lol
 
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TaylorSexton

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The op had comment/questions on free will and I gave my general view on that. Why do you ask?

What do you expect to contribute, or are you just the on duty contribution police?

Sorry, but geez, lol

The title of the thread is "Understanding Adam and Eve in Calvinism." You start off your comment by saying plainly that you are not a Calvinist, yet proceed to offer your convictions. For that, I ask: What did you, not being a Calvinist, expect to contribute to a thread asking explicitly for the the Calvinist's defense or explanation of the state of Adam and Eve's will?
 
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Kenny'sID

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For that, I ask: What did you, not being a Calvinist, expect to contribute to a thread asking explicitly for the the Calvinist's defense or explanation of the state of Adam and Eve's will?

Yet you leave out the part of OP's concern over free will. Also, go count the posts here that were made by non Calvinists. I can make no sense of what you said to me...only that we may have had a past disagreement, but either way, I'd just a soon drop it here.
 
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twin1954

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Yes, but I specified free will.
Which I clearly showed to be a false idea. Your post and the premise it promoted necessarily concludes that man is the point of everything which makes man god.

What you post here just ignores everything I said. It contributes nothing to the thread or the debate over free will.

You made it clear that you have no intention of even considering the actual argument against free will or the implications of what you promote. You seem to want to hang on to your sovereignty over God and control your own destiny.
 
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twin1954

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I'm probably in the minority or overly blunt but I see Adam and Eve as having free will in the Garden, they were not forced to sin but did so freely and that their fall was determined by God. I don't see a contradiction at all.

GOD PREDETERMINED THE FALL OF ADAM; this fell under his decree, as all things do that come to pass in the world; there is nothing comes to pass without his determining will, “Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?” (Lam. 3:37), nothing is done, or can be done, God not willing it should be done: that the fall of Adam was by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God is certain; because the sufferings and death of Christ, by which is the redemption of men from that sin, and all others, were ordained before the foundation of the world; and which must have been precarious and uncertain, if Adam’s fall was not by a like decree (Acts 2:23; 4:28; 1 Pet. 1:20), but then neither the foreknowledge of God, nor any decree of God, laid Adam under a necessity of sinning; it is true, there arises from hence a necessity of immutability, that is, that the things God has decreed should unchangeably come to pass, but not a necessity of co-action or force; as Judas and the Jews sinned freely, the one in betraying, the other in putting Christ to death; so Adam sinned freely, without force or compulsion, notwithstanding any decree of God concerning him; so that these do not make God at all chargeable with being the author of his sin; he and he alone was the author of it. John Gill​

Yours in the Lord,

jm
I agree with you of course but I was trying to help the OP understand in a more full manner how it was that free will was exercised in the Fall. I was trying to explain how even Adam didn't have a libertarian free will as most folks think that they have. :oldthumbsup:
 
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