Undermining prayer?

[Tamara224]

How is that possible? You, yourself, said that it is God's Will for you to be healed! If John prays for God's Will in your life, whatever that might be, how could that even remotely affect you, especially since God's Will is in your healing?

Besides, that's not even possible. If one person prays "God heal X" and another person prays "God don't heal X" (something NO TRUE CHRISTIAN, IMO, would ever pray, but just for the sake of hypothetical).... Then God has to answer one or the other of those prayers. But they are mutually exclusive. They can't both be answered.

So.... How would it be possible for God to answer the second person's prayer, if it is God's will to answer the first person's prayer? Would God really go against His own will to answer the prayer of someone foolish enough to ask for something that God doesn't want?

And if God only answers prayers based on 100% faith and He does answer the second person's prayer and not the first person's prayer... wouldn't that suggest that, in fact, it was the second person who had more faith than the first person?

So, is that what this is really about? Are people afraid that someone else, someone who prays differently than them, actually has more faith and would thereby get his prayer answered?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

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[Strong in Him]

But what if, just what if,,,, Just as we all believe that our salvation was a done deal at calvary, what if that healing was a done deal at calvary, and God didn't have to make a decision to heal when we pray, and we pray instead that the healing that was provided, would be manifested in our bodies ??

That doesn't answer my point.
In the first place, it should be obvious by now that some of us have trouble believing that healing was a done deal at Calvary.
Secondly, if it was and we pray "Lord, please heal me", surely at the very least he would say to us "I already have", or give us the faith to believe that he already had. I don't believe he is really too bothered about sorting out our theology before answering our prayer.
If he hears one of his children crying out to him, or sees them making even the tiniest act in faith (eg asking for prayer/anointing), I think he would answer the prayer first, and teach us about faith, prayer or what we should have asked for later. As I've also said before, to say otherwise conjures up a picture of God saying "now ask me properly, and what's the magic word" before doing anything.

 

[franky67]

That doesn't answer my point.
In the first place, it should be obvious by now that some of us have trouble believing that healing was a done deal at Calvary.
Secondly, if it was and we pray "Lord, please heal me", surely at the very least he would say to us "I already have", or give us the faith to believe that he already had. I don't believe he is really too bothered about sorting out our theology before answering our prayer.
If he hears one of his children crying out to him, or sees them making even the tiniest act in faith (eg asking for prayer/anointing), I think he would answer the prayer first, and teach us about faith, prayer or what we should have asked for later. As I've also said before, to say otherwise conjures up a picture of God saying "now ask me properly, and what's the magic word" before doing anything.

Why is so difficult to accept that all our needs were provided at calvary, instead of just eternal life.

I choose to believe they were, you choose not, why.

 

[Christina M]

God's will does not depend on whether we believe or know that it is His will.

Huh???

Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

How can you prove what is the will of God if you don't know what it is???

Eph 6:6
not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,

How can you do the will of God from your heart if you don't know what it is???

Heb 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

If you don't know what the will of God is and do it, how can you receive the promise???

1 John 2:17
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

If you don't know the will of God, will you abide forever???

 

[Christina M]

First, I never said your name, nor who said it.

Second, it wasn't you who said it. (And, no, I won't point fingers at who did.)

Third, as is evidenced by the posts that have happened here, there are several who agree with the statement about prayer being undermined by others.

I said it!

I do not want the prayers of those who:

1. Do not know God's will
2. Believe God may want sickness or poverty on someone to teach them a lesson
3. Believe in a Casino God.... "maybe He will, maybe He won't"....

I go to a like-minded faith-filled group who KNOW God's will if I need prayer.

However, I will pray for anyone who asks for prayer.

 

[Christina M]

This is another assumption that those who disagree with you automatically don't know Jesus is Lord.

You know what assuming does --- makes an ass of out someone

 

[Tamara224]

Huh???

Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

How can you prove what is the will of God if you don't know what it is???

By renewing our minds and not being transformed. That transformation is the proof. Not our knowledge of it.

Eph 6:6
not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,

How can you do the will of God from your heart if you don't know what it is???

Well, whether we do it or not is not the question. Even if we don't do it, it is still God's will.

God's will doesn't change based on whether we obey him or not.

Heb 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

If you don't know what the will of God is and do it, how can you receive the promise???

Again, God's will doesn't change if we don't receive the promise. It is what it is. It is up to obey or not. But we don't change his will by disobedience.

1 John 2:17
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

If you don't know the will of God, will you abide forever???

See above.


Besides which... not one of those verses is talking about it being always God's will to heal.

Jesus said that God's will is for us to obey. Which means loving Him and one another. We know that. All of us Christians know that.

 

[Christina M]

Why is so difficult to accept that all our needs were provided at calvary, instead of just eternal life.

I choose to believe they were, you choose not, why.

Because some view it as piety (albeit false piety) and consider it a badge of honor to be sick and poor..... it is religion, tradition that binds them.

Free them, Lord, we pray!!!

 

[Christina M]

By renewing our minds and not being transformed. That transformation is the proof. Not our knowledge of it.



Well, whether we do it or not is not the question. Even if we don't do it, it is still God's will.

God's will doesn't change based on whether we obey him or not.



Again, God's will doesn't change if we don't receive the promise. It is what it is. It is up to obey or not. But we don't change his will by disobedience.




See above.


Besides which... not one of those verses is talking about it being always God's will to heal.

Jesus said that God's will is for us to obey. Which means loving Him and one another. We know that. All of us Christians know that.

Then those who wish to not believe it is God's will to heal them shall remain sick... oh well, they cannot say the truth has not been shown to them.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

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[Strong in Him]

Why doesn't everyone post prayer requests only in their own subforums?

 

[Christina M]

Why doesn't everyone post prayer requests only in their own subforums?

I post mine specifically through email ... or in person. Or there is another forum I know of where like-minded folks are trusted to pray in agreement with me.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

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[SavedByGrace3]

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[NewSong]

I said it!

I do not want the prayers of those who:

1. Do not know God's will
2. Believe God may want sickness or poverty on someone to teach them a lesson
3. Believe in a Casino God.... "maybe He will, maybe He won't"....

I go to a like-minded faith-filled group who KNOW God's will if I need prayer.

However, I will pray for anyone who asks for prayer.

You can't stop people from praying for you even though you may desire it that way.

Well, that is out of your control, now what? Guess it means you will never know whether it is one of our prayers prayed for you that gets answered or one of yours will you?

 

[Christina M]

You can't stop people from praying for you even though you may desire it that way.

Well, that is out of your control, now what? Guess it means you will never know whether it is one of our prayers prayed for you that gets answered or one of yours will you?

Any prayers, that unknowingly are offered up for me, that are not in the will of God, are defeated.

If you pray for me, New Song, against the will of God, your prayers will not be answered.... I pray against those kind of prayers daily. Many do not believe that Christians can pray prayers that go against God's will... I do... and I account for it daily, when I put on my armor. I know it goes against the grain for many, but it is God's will for me... to guard my heart.


Breaking Christian Curses, Finding Freedom from Destructive Prayers is a good read:

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Christian-Curses-Finding-Destructive/dp/1886296197

 

[jeolmstead]

No, John, He wouldn't judge me based on what you believe, but He would answer your prayers for me based on what you believe the outcome would be.

So, God would punish you if my faith was faulty and I prayed amiss?

I know you don't really beleive that.

John O.

 

[Christina M]

So, God would punish you if my faith was faulty and I prayed amiss?

I know you don't really beleive that.

John O.

John,

God does not go against His Word...

it says "you have not if you ask amiss"..

so if I asked you to pray for me, and your faith wasn't there in agreement - thus asking amiss - yes, God would be liable to uphold His word.

That is why it is important with whom you come into agreement... the whole gist of this...

 

[jeolmstead]

John,

God does not go against His Word...

it says "you have not if you ask amiss"..

so if I asked you to pray for me, and your faith wasn't there in agreement - thus asking amiss - yes, God would be liable to uphold His word.

That is why it is important with whom you come into agreement... the whole gist of this...

I agree, He would not honor a prayer prayed amiss, So what then would be the problem with me praying for you?

How could any prayer prayed outside the will of God create a problem for one who is faithful?


John O.