Undermining prayer?

[JAS4Yeshua]

In James 5:14,15, when the elders anoint with oil and pray for the sick one, it says the prayer of faith (singular) a single prayer prayed by more than one elder, and the prayer, offered in faith will restore the one who is sick.

This prayer must have the faith of all the elders combined, to be effective.

If it doesn't, there is hinderence present.

1 Peter 3:7 indicates our attitudes can hinder prayers, and to doubt, is an attitude.

You have your elders praying for you, they are all in agreement. Very good. My prayer, not part of the prayer circle, will in no way cancel out or undermine their prayers. The Scripture in James neither says, nor insinuates, any such thing. And the verse in 1 Peter is about our attitudes in marriage, and how we treat our spouses. Not about faith or doubt.

 

[jeolmstead]

I believe this verse says exactly what it means, nothing was said about them asking.

They were just onlookers with unbelief, and as a result, Jesus could not do.....

Yes by our unbelief, we limit God.

Matt. 9:29 "..........according to your faith, be it done unto you."

But my unbelief does not limit your faith. It can't hinder your prayers.

Would God judge you based on what I believe?

John O.

 

[peacechild4]

Brother.. you did mention Word of Faith.. not me..

Perhaps you need to reread what you did say and think about your feelings towards those who are of the Word of Faith.. Why why why if someone believed what they believed based on the Word alone and was not Word of Faith.. Would you need to make mention of this denomination in your post at all?

 

[Strong in Him]

Think of it, God himself was limited by unbelief, are we not surely limited in the success of our prayers by doubt?

That was the Gospel writer's assessment of the situation, it doesn't necessarily mean that that was the case.

As I've already said, one man said to Jesus IF you want to .... and another said "Lord I believe, help me in my unbelief". Jairus and family laughed when Jesus said his daughter was asleep and several other people expressed various degrees of doubt that Jesus could do anything. He still healed though. When someone goes forward at a service for prayer for healing, or says "Lord I bring .... to you, I don't know how to pray, but you know their needs", is that showing any less faith than the man who said IF to Jesus?

And I can't really believe that Almighty God, our Creator, majestic and awesome in his glory, who created everything from nothing by speaking a word - is sitting in heaven thinking "gee, I'd really like to heal, it is my will to heal and my glory will be shown only by healing, but those human beings either don't believe I can, or haven't got quite enough faith, so I guess I can't do anything." God's greatness and glory is not diminished by our finite minds or puny faith. God doesn't require anything from us, and we can't do anything to earn his blessings.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

I do not deny that I mentioned Word of Faith. It was because of the verse you posted. It was a way for me to contrast opposing points of view. Again, it had nothing to do with your icon, and everything to do with contrasting the two differing focuses of that verse, and the associated teachings and understandings that stems from both sides of the Word of Faith lines.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

...

 

[~RENEE~]

Jas no matter how much what I say is twisted. I said nothing about anything being undermined. NOTHING.

 

[franky67]

But my unbelief does not limit your faith. It can't hinder your prayers.

Would God judge you based on what I believe?

John O.

No, John, He wouldn't judge me based on what you believe, but He would answer your prayers for me based on what you believe the outcome would be.

 

[Tamara224]

Brother.. you did mention Word of Faith.. not me..

Perhaps you need to reread what you did say and think about your feelings towards those who are of the Word of Faith.. Why why why if someone believed what they believed based on the Word alone and was not Word of Faith.. Would you need to make mention of this denomination in your post at all?

Because those beliefs are WoF beliefs. WoF teachers and preachers are the ones teaching them. WoF people are the ones who believe them. It is those beliefs that distinguish certain people as WoF.

It's like, if someone came in here and said "Peter was the first pope because Jesus said "on this rock will I build my church"". Everyone would know, even if the person had a plain Christian icon, that the person was Catholic. Because that's a distinctly Catholic belief not held by Protestants.

Why does it bother you? (Genuine question, I'm curious).

 

[~RENEE~]

Oh and uh to the poster that said I don't want prayer your a liar.

That was only said by you not me.

 

[Tamara224]

Jas no matter how much what I say is twisted. I said nothing about anything being undermined. NOTHING.

No, Renee, it was someone else in your thread who said it. Jason never said it was you who said it.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

Jas no matter how much what I say is twisted. I said nothing about anything being undermined. NOTHING.

First, I never said your name, nor who said it.

Second, it wasn't you who said it. (And, no, I won't point fingers at who did.)

Third, as is evidenced by the posts that have happened here, there are several who agree with the statement about prayer being undermined by others.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

I think that is a perfect example of what is happening today in this world. People do not see Jesus as the Lord. They do not see or realize that the name of Jesus has power and authority. Many people see Jesus as merely a sin janitor... and the title "Lord" has no real meaning.
Locate yourself.
Does the name of Jesus have power and authority in heaven?
Does the name of Jesus used in prayer define the will of God in your life and return the expected end?
Does God detemine His will by the word that abides in your heart?

If not.. then there is no difference between current events and what happened in the home town of Jesus. People still do not see Jesus as the exact image of the Father. They still do not see Him as the will of God manifest. They do not see His name as meaning anything in the world, opting instead to define God and His will as some mysterious "plan" that cannot be known or understood.

I think the story of Jesus in His home town is a perfect reflection of the modern chruch. He and we are hindered by their unbelief, and we are still amazed by it.

This is another assumption that those who disagree with you automatically don't know Jesus is Lord. It is one of the things you keep pushing at those who disagree with you. Just because we have a different interpretation, doesn't mean we don't know and believe fully in the power of God.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

No, John, He wouldn't judge me based on what you believe, but He would answer your prayers for me based on what you believe the outcome would be.

How is that possible? You, yourself, said that it is God's Will for you to be healed! If John prays for God's Will in your life, whatever that might be, how could that even remotely affect you, especially since God's Will is in your healing?

 

[~RENEE~]

No, Renee, it was someone else in your thread who said it. Jason never said it was you who said it.

First, I never said your name, nor who said it.

Second, it wasn't you who said it. (And, no, I won't point fingers at who did.)

Third, as is evidenced by the posts that have happened here, there are several who agree with the statement about prayer being undermined by others.

 

[franky67]

That was the Gospel writer's assessment of the situation, it doesn't necessarily mean that that was the case.

As I've already said, one man said to Jesus IF you want to .... and another said "Lord I believe, help me in my unbelief". Jairus and family laughed when Jesus said his daughter was asleep and several other people expressed various degrees of doubt that Jesus could do anything. He still healed though. When someone goes forward at a service for prayer for healing, or says "Lord I bring .... to you, I don't know how to pray, but you know their needs", is that showing any less faith than the man who said IF to Jesus?

And I can't really believe that Almighty God, our Creator, majestic and awesome in his glory, who created everything from nothing by speaking a word - is sitting in heaven thinking "gee, I'd really like to heal, it is my will to heal and my glory will be shown only by healing, but those human beings either don't believe I can, or haven't got quite enough faith, so I guess I can't do anything." God's greatness and glory is not diminished by our finite minds or puny faith. God doesn't require anything from us, and we can't do anything to earn his blessings.

But what if, just what if,,,, Just as we all believe that our salvation was a done deal at calvary, what if that healing was a done deal at calvary, and God didn't have to make a decision to heal when we pray, and we pray instead that the healing that was provided, would be manifested in our bodies ??

 

[Tamara224]

I think that is a perfect example of what is happening today in this world. People do not see Jesus as the Lord. They do not see or realize that the name of Jesus has power and authority. Many people see Jesus as merely a sin janitor... and the title "Lord" has no real meaning.
Locate yourself.
Does the name of Jesus have power and authority in heaven?
Does the name of Jesus used in prayer define the will of God in your life and return the expected end?
Does God detemine His will by the word that abides in your heart?

Lord, definition:

a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler.
​

If God's will is determined by what we pray for, or what is in our hearts, then how does that make Jesus lord? It doesn't. That would make us the lords.

Jesus is lord because He rules, He has authority, control and power over us.

We don't tell Him what His will is. He tells us what His will is. Because He's Lord. He rules. He controls.

And one day every tongue will confess and every knee will bow to Him. They will be forced to stop pretending they are in control, and acknowledge that Jesus is in control.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

But what if, just what if,,,, Just as we all believe that our salvation was a done deal at calvary, what if that healing was a done deal at calvary, and God didn't have to make a decision to heal when we pray, and we pray instead that the healing that was provided, would be manifested in our bodies ??

So? What if that were true? How does my differing interpretation affect anything? It definately wouldn't undermine your prayers. It wouldn't cancel it out. After all, as you state, healing is already provided so long as you (not I) believe.

 

[millerrod]

I cant believe this argument is even still taking place. I knew there was differences in doctrine but i thought the one thing we all have in common was our belief in Christ and our willingness to pray for each other and anyone else in need out of Love.
Whats next are we going to argue that Christ and Salvation is for everyone willing to turn to Him. Wait Wait Wait dont answer that just forget i said anything or thats the next thing we will be debating

 

[Br0kenSunshyne]

I cant believe this argument is even still taking place. I knew there was differences in doctrine but i thought the one thing we all have in common was our belief in Christ and our willingness to pray for each other and anyone else in need out of Love.
Whats next are we going to argue that Christ and Salvation is for everyone willing to turn to Him. Wait Wait Wait dont answer that just forget i said anything or thats the next thing we will be debating

I guess so. Wanna go for it?????? *puts on boxing gloves*