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Any translation that renders the Greek word Aion (Age) as "World", as the KJV does, is a demosntrably poor translation.
First, let's remember the CONTEXT
We are talking about events happening during the Fourth Beast
The Bible PROMISES the Truth about Daniel's Fourth Beast remains "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" during the "Time-of-the-End"
Therefore, any "interpretation" made BEFORE the Last Saints "shall understand"
MUST BE WRONG because it was developed during a time when the Bible PROMISES
the Truth remained "closed-up" and "sealed".
That is WHY we already KNOW the "interpretations" about Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome being the Four Kingdoms
MUST BE WRONG... the same applies here
It doe NO GOOD to reference an "interpretation" made while the Truth remained "sealed"...
I don't know WHY you continue to do such a thing. Unless you REJECT the Word of God in Dan 12?
/
David it is beginning of the Day of Christ that is subject to the fulfillemnt of the falling away and the man of sin revealed - not the gathering unto the Lord.My view basically is this. The revealing of the man of sin and the falling away connected with that is preventing the gathering per verse 1 from occurring. IOW, until those events are fulfilled first, and I'm certain you agree, the gathering in verse 1 can't happen in the meantime.
The accusaton that I add to the text is humorous coming from someone such as yourself who plainly has added "the Holy Spirit" to this text where it does not exist at all.
I'm not arguing against any of this that you submitted in this post. This I basically agree with you about. I'm only arguing against your interpretation of verse 7, the fact, according to the Greek no one is being taken out of the way. And that you are arguing that someone is being taken out of the way, the Holy Spirit in this case.
My view is basically this. The revealing of the man of sin and the falling away connected with that is preventing the gathering per verse 1 from occurring. IOW, until those events are fulfilled first, and I'm certain you agree, the gathering in verse 1 can't happen in the meantime. Which then means we also need to factor in this---that he might be revealed in his time(2 Thessalonians 2:6)---obviously, meaning there is an appointed time set aside for this, which then involves the time of the end per the book of Daniel.
BTW, I have as of now edited that post you were initially responding to, since what I was arguing against didn't show up in quotes per your post I was quoting. Now it should be clearer anyway, what I'm basically arguing against. Therefore, my bad for initially failing to quote exactly what I was taking issue with in your post.
David it is beginning of the Day of Christ that is subject to the fulfillemnt of the falling away and the man of sin revealed - not the gathering unto the Lord.
Any translation that renders the Greek word Aion (Age) as "World", as the KJV does, is a demosntrably poor translation.
David it is beginning of the Day of Christ that is subject to the fulfillemnt of the falling away and the man of sin revealed - not the gathering unto the Lord.
Exactly.
Also important to note that in the first century, at the very time Paul was writing g to the Thessalonians, an actual MAN was at that time being restrained from his imminent takeover of the temple. "And you know what is restraining him now" And within a few short years of Paul’s letter, the temple was indeed taken over.
The notion that a sperm with an XY chromosome was somehow being restrained from entering an egg, and would continue to be restrained from entering that egg for thousands of years, is nowhere in the text.
The text is clear. There was a MAN, at that time, being restrained.
This is all first century stuff, fulfilled within a few short years after Paul wrote the letter.
Yes, The mystery of lawlessness was at work in the days of the first century and it continues to be manifested today. However, then as now, evil and lawlessness are currently being held back and suppressed, by the One WHO restrains evil - the Holy Spirit. The lawlessness was restrained so that God can build his church through the testimony of Two Witnesses. After the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished (Rev 11:7), when all Elect has been sealed and secured, the Restrainer of evil will then be removed and unrestrained lawlessness will be loosed upon the earth as a judgment upon the unfaithful church, especially those men without the seal of God in the congregation.No, they do not teach anything of the sort. You are presupposing your persinal bias onto the text.
That much is clear. Everyone here can see it.
There is absolutely NOTHING in those texts that even remotely suggests the Holy Spirit is the restrainer.
Not even one word.
Douggg, that's only a problemo if one is arguing that the day of the Lord is involving great tribulation, and that the gathering in verse 1 is meaning before great tribulation rather than after, and that these arguments are true. Except neither argument is true to begin with. Great tribulation does not involve the day of the Lord nor does the gathering in verse 1 mean prior to great tribulation.
Post #186 I think. I edited what I initially quoted per your post to reflect what I specifically was arguing against.
Granted, not everyone likes to check out links to articles that a member has a posted a link to. Which then tells me since you are still arguing this, either you didn't notice the link I submitted in post #173, thus didn't read the entire post. Or, that you did notice it but are one that doesn't care to check out links to articles. Or, that you did read that article or at least attempted to, but simply found the article unconvincing, since, in your mind, you have a far better understanding of these things than that author does. Assuming it might be the latter, how then can any serious Bible student read that article and find it unconvincing makes no sense unless that person simply is unable to comprehend what that article is arguing over all. But, since that person was very clear about things, I can't imagine anyone reading that article then failing to comprehend what the author is arguing over all. Unless one thinks exegesis is not important, that eisegesis trumps exegesis.
I understand this is your personal opinion.The KJV is the BEST translation we have.
I already replied to this in post #186
Any OLD INTERPRETATIONS of 2 Thess 2 MUST BE WRONG
because they were developed during a time when the Bible PROMISES the Truth
remains "closed-up" and "sealed".
I understand this is your personal opinion.
I happen to disagree.
I guess James didn't get that memo then?Mat 24:33-34
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, [all the signs He just prophesied]
know that it [His Return] is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation [of the Last Saints]
shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
You only need to ask yourself WHO "shall see ALL these things"?
Hello, @sovereigngrace and @Spiritual Jew,
Just wanted you guys to know that I am back!
TribulationSigns.
I guess James didn't get that memo then?
James 5:8-9
8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!
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