Unclean meats

[IPreachChrist]

Wondering your guys stance on this verse relative to unclean meats:

As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
-Romans 14:14

To me, this is pretty much saying exactly what it says, unless you feel it's wrong for you personally to eat pork, then don't eat pork. But since nothing in itself is unclean, and you're okay with eating pork, then it's okay to eat pork!

Just wondering since I know that ya'll have problems with eating unclean meats.

BTW, if you're answer is going to be "Well, this is about foods offered to idols", then prove that context. Thanks

 

[numlock321]

remember in leviticus and deut.. are the known and considered as FOOD.. other than those are not considered as food.. all food is clean! yes indeed.. but the listed animals are considered as food to eat other than that are not to be considered as food...

 

[Princessdi]

Numlock, I like that description much better. When we talk about clean and unclean then, we always get into the discussion about what God made being clean, and He said ALL of it was "Good" upon creation. this description by passes that needless part of the conversation..

My POV at this time...........Is there anything clean to eat? Meat, recalls, vegetable recalls, water is polluted, that which iyou plant yourself is planted in potentially polluted ground......I don't know......

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

BTW, if you're answer is going to be "Well, this is about foods offered to idols", then prove that context. Thanks

In verse 3 Paul talks about those in the church who ate only vegetables. This implies that he is not talking specifically about unclean meats, but about meat in general. Why would meat in general be an issue? Well, this was a letter to the church of Rome, a mostly pagan city. If the butcher who slaughtered the animal was a pagan, chances are it was dedicated to some pagan god.

In verse 21 he says it is good not to eat meat or drink wine if it would cause a brother to stumble. Why would wine be an issue? It isn't forbidden in the Law. It's an issue because pagans dedicated wine to their gods as well. This is why Daniel and friends didn't eat meat or drink wine when they were at the court of Nebuchadnezzar.

This was a major issue in the church at the time. Paul talks about it expressly in 1 Corinthians 8.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Wondering your guys stance on this verse relative to unclean meats:

As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
-Romans 14:14

To me, this is pretty much saying exactly what it says, unless you feel it's wrong for you personally to eat pork, then don't eat pork. But since nothing in itself is unclean, and you're okay with eating pork, then it's okay to eat pork!

Just wondering since I know that ya'll have problems with eating unclean meats.

BTW, if you're answer is going to be "Well, this is about foods offered to idols", then prove that context. Thanks

Check out the underlying Greek, then compare to the Septuagint passages relating to food (principally Leviticus 11.) I think you will find some sloppy translation from Greek to English in the passage you mentioned.

 

[ricker]

[=SoldierOfTheKing;59036210]In verse 3 Paul talks about those in the church who ate only vegetables. This implies that he is not talking specifically about unclean meats, but about meat in general. Why would meat in general be an issue? Well, this was a letter to the church of Rome, a mostly pagan city. If the butcher who slaughtered the animal was a pagan, chances are it was dedicated to some pagan god.

The Bible says this:
25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”everything in it.”]
27 If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. 29 I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?


Do you think maybe "unclean" meat would be sold in a Corinth meat market along with sacrificed meat?

In verse 21 he says it is good not to eat meat or drink wine if it would cause a brother to stumble. Why would wine be an issue? It isn't forbidden in the Law. It's an issue because pagans dedicated wine to their gods as well. This is why Daniel and friends didn't eat meat or drink wine when they were at the court of Nebuchadnezzar.

Food sacrificed to idols may have been an issue to an Israelite, but it isn't to us anymore according to the NT.( BTW, Daniel drank wine and ate meat later in life).

This was a major issue in the church at the time. Paul talks about it expressly in 1 Corinthians 8.

Paul talks about it in 1 Cor. 10 I just quoted, too.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Food sacrificed to idols may have been an issue to an Israelite, but it isn't to us anymore according to the NT.( BTW, Daniel drank wine and ate meat later in life).

Read Revelation 2. Jesus seems to have a problem with it. Paul now trumps Jesus?

With regard to 'meat sold in the market', I would encourage you to find the Mishnah on line and read tractate Avodah Zarah. It deals with precisely these issues.

Early Christian congregations were a mix of Gentiles and Jews, each with their own food customs.

 

[ricker]

=Steve Petersen;59137126]Read Revelation 2. Jesus seems to have a problem with it. Paul now trumps Jesus?

With regard to 'meat sold in the market', I would encourage you to find the Mishnah on line and read tractate Avodah Zarah. It deals with precisely these issues.

Don't twist an allegorical and symbolic statement in Revelaton to counter God's clear words in 1 Corinthians 10?

I will quote them again.

25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”
. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. 29 I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?




Would you mind paraphrasing the statements in the Mishnah tractate Avodah Zarah (whatever that is) for me?

Early Christian congregations were a mix of Gentiles and Jews, each with their own food customs.

Yes, and Gentile customs would not include avoiding "unclean" meat.

 

[ricker]

Read Revelation 2. Jesus seems to have a problem with it. Paul now trumps Jesus?
.

Paul's writings are just as much from God as John's!

Rev 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Yes, eating food sacrificed to idols was a sin for the nation of Israel under the old covenant. What do the Epistles to the Gentiles say about the practice post cross?

 

[Merlinius]

What God has cleansed, don't anyone call it "unclean".

The lesson of Peter's vision.

(Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

The only reason that the law existed in the first place about "clean/unclean animals" was to be revealed right here;

(Act 10:28) And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Any other application is just psuedo-religious wind blowing.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The only reason that the law existed in the first place about "clean/unclean animals" was to be revealed right here;

No, the reason for the distiction between clean and unclean was because God knows what is best for our bodies. What we eat is not salvational but it does determine general health. Have you noticed that the things classified as unclean are generally scavengers...

The scripture you quoted was used as an allegory.

 

[Merlinius]

No, the reason for the distiction between clean and unclean was because God knows what is best for our bodies. What we eat is not salvational but it does determine general health. Have you noticed that the things classified as unclean are generally scavengers...

The scripture you quoted was used as an allegory.

It has nothing to do with health. (show the scriptures that make you believe otherwise)

It only has to do with God cleansing the Gentiles to be "clean" for the Gospel. The "reality" is with Peter's vision. Not an "allegory" lol. Who told you that?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

This isn't something I am to judge you or instruct you on.... eat whatever you feel is healthy for your body.

 

[ricker]

No, the reason for the distiction between clean and unclean was because God knows what is best for our bodies. What we eat is not salvational but it does determine general health. Have you noticed that the things classified as unclean are generally scavengers...

The scripture you quoted was used as an allegory.

Where, oh where does the Bible back up what you said here? Eating unclean meat was a salvational issue for an Israelite, and was never said to be about health.

Them unclean rabbits! And eating an animal that scavenges makes it unhealthy how?


Edit to add:Just saw your answer to Merlinius. Fair enough.

 

[Brandon4Rangers]

Where, oh where does the Bible back up what you said here? Eating unclean meat was a salvational issue for an Israelite, and was never said to be about health.

Them unclean rabbits! And eating an animal that scavenges makes it unhealthy how?


Edit to add:Just saw your answer to Merlinius. Fair enough.

are you honestly that uneducated about what scavengers do to your body? why do you think America leads the world in obesity and diabetes? a high pork diet perhaps? the jews do not eat pork for health reasons and salvational reasons. same with muslims. i love pork. but i know that eating crap is not good for me. and our bodies are the Temple of God are they not? So God wants us to eat a bunch of junk? As for Paul, he's a muppet of Rome. The teacher of lies according to the Jewish Essenes. He contradicts God in pretty much all of his teachings.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

why do you think America leads the world in obesity and diabetes?

Enormous quantities of refined sugar, primarily. The average American consumes their weight in sugar every year.

 

[ricker]

are you honestly that uneducated about what scavengers do to your body? why do you think America leads the world in obesity and diabetes? a high pork diet perhaps? the jews do not eat pork for health reasons and salvational reasons. same with muslims. i love pork. but i know that eating crap is not good for me. and our bodies are the Temple of God are they not? So God wants us to eat a bunch of junk? As for Paul, he's a muppet of Rome. The teacher of lies according to the Jewish Essenes. He contradicts God in pretty much all of his teachings.

Um, do Asians (for example) eat a smaller percentage of "unclean" meats that Americans do? I don't think so.

 

[ricker]

Enormous quantities of refined sugar, primarily. The average American consumes their weight in sugar every year.

Sure, they blame obesity on the ham sandwiches.......... :o

 

[Steve Petersen]

I for one am sure glad to be in the New Law Marriage Covenant in Christ by which all things have been cleansed

(Act 10:10) And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
(Act 10:11) And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
(Act 10:12) Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
(Act 10:13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
(Act 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
(Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

As has been previously noted, Peter's own interpretation of the vision (later in the chapter) is that he was to call no MAN common or unclean.

 

[winslow]

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