Uncanonical websites Please note!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rick of Wessex

Alive and kicking!
Mar 18, 2004
903
101
48
São Paulo - SP - Brazil
✟16,572.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
That said I think this forum should recognize the Synod in Resistance under Metropolitan Cyprian and the GOC under bishop Chrysostomos II and those in union with them.

Buzuxi, I really find it hard to accept two bickering gruops who have anethematized each other, and in the processes have proclaimed each other to be "a schismatic, graceless sect". Have you read the awful things thar Kiousis has said about Orthodox hierarchs and aven other old-calendarist groups? and what about his support to the monks of Esphigmenou?

This guy is evil with a capital "E" - really Evil... now Koutsoumbas... well, he's just a show-off who thinks that he, one day, will unify all the old-calendarist groups under his "omophorion"... perhaps one day he will create a parallel "Ecumenical Patriarchate" of his own. Pfff...

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not an "ecumenist". Far from it!! I really think that our time to leave the WCC is long past and I'd love to see and end to all these pseudo-ecumenical dialogues with non-chalcedonians and other heterodox groups, for instance. However, I fully reject the old-calendarist arrogance, self-righteousness and sectarianism, which have lead them astray and took them out of the pleroma of the Church.

In XC,
Rick

Rick
 
Upvote 0

Rick of Wessex

Alive and kicking!
Mar 18, 2004
903
101
48
São Paulo - SP - Brazil
✟16,572.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Listen, you guys can take this one through pm... this is a thread for questionable websites. Please do not debate on this thread...
Thank you :)
God bless,
Philothei

Agreed. :thumbsup: No debating for me.

Rick
 
Upvote 0

RobNJ

So Long, And Thanks For All The Fish!
Aug 22, 2004
12,074
3,310
✟166,532.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why not collect all these websites and put them in one "Sticky" at the top of the thread?? Mods can always edit as more are added.

Just a thought

I think that is what will happen, after they're done "collecting" them!
 
Upvote 0

SpyridonOCA

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2007
2,509
105
✟3,415.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They are not Orthodox because they have left the Church. Orthodoxy is not just praxis, but also belonging to the Eucharistic Communion with the entire Body. The OC groups are not in that Communion.

When communion is broken between two groups of Christians, it isn't always just one side that is at fault. If the ecumenical involvement of the canonical Orthodox Churches were to end, I wonder how many Old Calendarists would return to the Church.
 
Upvote 0

RobNJ

So Long, And Thanks For All The Fish!
Aug 22, 2004
12,074
3,310
✟166,532.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DarkNLovely

Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5
Jul 25, 2007
3,012
140
Where da party at!
✟18,913.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Also, might it be a good idea to explain wy they are not connonical. Since I am not a Orthodox, they all look legit to me and I would never have known had you not told me! :)

I do not understand the thing with the calendar, for example.
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Also, might it be a good idea to explain wy they are not connonical. Since I am not a Orthodox, they all look legit to me and I would never have known had you not told me! :)

I do not understand the thing with the calendar, for example.
The Canonical churches are those churches in communion with the ancient Patriarchates which are in communion with each other.

The uncanonical churches are vagante, they may have been started by some guy who simply bought a priest costume and other orthodox-looking stuff off of E-BAY and now is starting his own church. Or it could be some church which originates from some priest who was defrocked and excommunicated by a canonical church for infractions and now is heading his own 'independant' church. Regardless of the means, uncanonical churches are not Orthodox and have no apostolic succession, their sacraments are devoid of grace.

As far as the calendar, in 1923 some of the Orthodox Churches began switching to the gregorian calendar, some laity and heirarchs saw this as a departure of the traditions, thus they 'walled off ' themselves from their "Mother Churches" (aka: Canonical Churches). In order to distinguish these churches from the vagante churches mentioned above, you must do the research. The Canonical churches view these churches (often called old calendarists) not as vagante or heretical, but as schismatic.
Me and Spyridon object to grouping the old calendarists with the fraudulent vagante sects under the same umbrella.
 
Upvote 0

DivineWisdom

New Member
Dec 18, 2007
3
0
✟7,613.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Protoevangel why do you have a photo up of Fr Seraphim Rose given that his attitude was radically opposed to your own?



"Large movements of protest opposed the reformers in both the Russian and Greek Churches, producing the deep divisions which exist until now in the Orthodox world. In the Russian Church, Sergianism was decisively rejected by very many of the bishops and faithful, led by Metropolitan Joseph of Petrograd; this "Josephite" movement later became organized to some extent and became known as the "True Orthodox Church." The history of this illegal "Catacomb" Church of Russia is, to this day, veiled in secrecy, but in the past few years a number of startling evidences of its present-day activities have come to light, leading to stern repressive measures on the part of the Soviet government. The name of its present chief hierarch (Metropolitan Theodosius) has become known, as has that of one of its ten or more bishops (Bishop Seraphim). In the Diaspora, the Russian Church Outside of Russia committed itself from the very beginning of Sergianism in 1927 to a firm anti-Sergianist position, and on numerous occasions it has expressed its solidarity with the True Orthodox Church in Russia, while refusing all communion with the Moscow Patriarchate. Its uncompromisingness and staunch traditionalism in this and other matters were not to the taste of several of the Russian hierarchs of Western Europe and America, who were more receptive to the "reform" currents in 20th-century Orthodoxy, and they separated themselves at various times from the Russian Church Outside of Russia, thus creating the present "jurisdictional" differences of the Russian Diaspora.
In Greece the movement of protest, by a similar Orthodox instinct, likewise took the name of "True Orthodox Christians." From the beginning in 1924 (when the calendar reform was introduced), this movement has been especially strong among the simple monks, priests and laymen of Greece; the first bishop to leave the State Church of Greece and join the movement was Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina, and today it continues its fully independent life and organization, comprising about one-fourth of all the Orthodox Christians of Greece, and perhaps one-half or more of all the monks and nuns. Although popularly known as the"old calendarists," the True Orthodox Christians of Greece stand for a staunch traditionalism in Orthodox life and thought in general, viewing the calendar question merely as a first stage and a touchstone of modernism and reformism."

Fr Seraphim Rose.



"In recent years, the Russian Church Outside of Russia has also given support and recognition to the True Orthodox Christians of Greece, whose situation also has long been exceedingly difficult and misunderstood. In Greece the first blow against the Church (the calendar reform) was not as deadly as the "Declaration" of Metropolitan Sergius in Russia, and for this reason it has taken longer for the theological consciousness of the Orthodox Greek people to see its full anti-orthodox significance. Further, few bishops in Greece have been bold enough to join the movement (whereas, by contrast, the number of non-Sergianist bishops in the beginning was larger than the whole episcopate of the Greek Church). And only in recent years has the cause of the old calendarists become even a little "intellectually respectable," as more and more university graduates have joined it. Over the years it has suffered persecutions, sometimes quite fierce, from the State and the official Church, and to this day it remains disdained by the "sophisticated" and totally without recognition from the "official" Orthodox world. Unfortunately, internal disagreements and divisions have continued to weaken the cause of the old calendarists, and they lack a single unanimous voice to express their stand for patristic Orthodoxy. Still, the basic Orthodoxy of their position cannot be denied, and one can only welcome such sound presentations of it as may be seen in the article that follows."

Fr Seraphim Rose.



"We are "old believers", but not schismatics, for we have never cut ourselves off from the true Church of Christ.
We are in union with our Head, Christ the Savior, with His holy Disciples and Apostles, with the Apostolic Fathers, with the great Fathers and Teachers of the Church, and with the great luminaries and pillars of the faith and piety of our Fatherland, Holy Russia. But you are in union with some sort of innovating, self-appointed teachers, whom you advertise everywhere so unlawfully and obstinately, disparaging and at times even daring to criticize the genuine luminaries of our Holy Church, who have pleased God and been glorified in many ascetic struggles of piety and miracles throughout the course of her two thousand year history.
This being the case, which of us is really the schismatic?
Of course it is not those in the spirit of traditional Orthodoxy, but those who have apostatized from the true faith of Christ and rejected the genuine spirit of Christian piety; even though all the contemporary patriarchs, who have altered our age-old, patristic Orthodoxy, may be on the latter's side, as well as the majority of contemporary, so-called Christians.
Indeed, Christ the Savior did not promise eternal salvation to the majority, but, quite to the contrary, He promised it to His "little flock", which will remain faithful to Him to the end, in the day of His Glorious and Terrible Second Coming, when He will come "to judge the living and the dead."
"Fear not, little flock," He said, painting the frightening picture of the last times of apostasy from God and persecution of the Faith before our mind's eye, "For it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom" (Lk. 12:32).
This is why all we have said above prompts us to re-examine the terminology that has been accepted up to the present. It is insufficient in our time to say only "Christian"—now it is necessary to qualify this by saying "true-Christian". Similarly it is insufficient to say "Orthodox"—it is essential to emphasize that one is not referring to an innovating modernist "Orthodox", but to a True Orthodox.

All genuine zealots of the true faith, serving Christ the Savior alone, have already begun to do this, both those in our Fatherland, enslaved by ferocious enemies of God, where zealots depart into the catacombs like the ancient Christians, as well as in Greece, our brother nation, where the "Old Calendarists" not only refuse to accept the new calendar, but also reject all innovations of any kind. They have a special veneration for that champion of Holy Orthodoxy, St Mark of Epheseus thanks to whose steadfastness the impious Union of Florence with papal Rome in 1439 failed."

Archbishop Averky, friend and mentor of Fr Seraphim Rose.
 
Upvote 0

DivineWisdom

New Member
Dec 18, 2007
3
0
✟7,613.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
[FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana]ARCHBISHOP THEOPHAN ON THE NEW CALENDAR[/FONT] [FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana][/FONT][FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana]WHAT DOES IT MEAN?[/FONT] [FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana]In 1926, Archbishop Theophanes of Poltava and Pereyaslavl, wrote the following in his work, "Short canonical judgements on chronology":[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana] Question. Have the pastors of the Orthodox Church made a judgement concerning the calendar?
Answer. They have, many times - with regard to the introduction of the new Roman calendar - both in private assemblies and in councils. A proof of this is the following. First of all, the Ecumenical Patriarch Jeremiah II, who lived at the same time as the Roman calendar reform, immediately, in 1582, together with his Synod condemned the new Roman system of chronology as being not in agreement with the Tradition of the Church. In the next year (1583), with the participation of Patriarchs Sylvester of Alexandria and Sophronius VI of Jerusalem, he convened a Church Council. This Council recognised the Gregorian calendar to be not in agreement with the canons of the Universal Church and with the decree of the First Ecumenical Council on the method of calculating the day of Holy Pascha.
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana]Through the labours of this Council there appeared: a Conciliar tome, which denounced the wrongness and unacceptability for the Orthodox Church of the Roman calendar, and a canonical conciliar Decree - the Sigillion of November 20, 1583. In this Sigillion all three of the above-mentioned Patriarchs with their Synods called on the Orthodox firmly and unbendingly, even to the shedding of their blood, to hold the Orthodox Menaion and Julian Paschalion, threatening the transgressors of this with anathema, cutting them off from the Church of Christ and the gathering of the faithful.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana]In the course of the following three centuries: the 17th, 18th and 19th, a whole series of Ecumenical Patriarchs decisively expressed themselves against the Gregorian calendar and, evaluating it in the spirit of the conciliar decree of Patriarch Jeremiah II, counselled the Orthodox to avoid it.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana] Question. Is the introduction of the new calendar important or of little importance?
Answer. Very important, especially in connection with the Paschalion and it is an extreme disorder and ecclesiastical schism, which draws people away from communion and unity with the whole Church of Christ, deprives them of the grace of the Holy Spirit, shakes the dogma of the unity of the Church and, like Arius, tears the seamless robe of Christ, that is, everywhere divides the Orthodox, depriving them of oneness of mind; breaks the bond with Ecclesiastical Holy Tradition, and makes them fall under conciliar condemnation for despising Tradition.
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, tahoma, verdana] Question. How must the Orthodox relate to the new calendarist schismatics, according to the canons?
Answer. They must have no communion in prayer with them, even before their conciliar condemnation.
[/FONT]
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Philothei

Love never fails
Nov 4, 2006
44,872
3,217
Northeast, USA
✟68,179.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
These guys are NOT Orthodox and their stuff should be considered highly dangerous:

http://www.monasteryicons.com/
Yes I would second that the Monastery icons are ...non-orthodox and we should not buy their icons. Not because they are not orthodox as to the fact they produce a work that is not within the parameters of Eastern Orthodox Iconongraphy.

God bless,
Philothei
 
Upvote 0

Protoevangel

Smash the Patriarchy!
Feb 6, 2004
11,662
1,248
Eugene, OR
✟33,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
Protoevangel said:
Protoevangel why do you have a photo up of Fr Seraphim Rose given that his attitude was radically opposed to your own?
Because I am an impulsive fool who should keep his ears and eyes open, mouth closed, and fingers far from the keyboard.

Because of you, SpyridonOCA & buzuxi02, I have deleted my links in Post #2. I will try to cease pronouncing who is and is not Orthodox or “canonical”. Especially as a catechumen, it is not my place.

But I agree with Philothei. If you want to continue this, please PM me. I will not continue a conversation in this thread. But I thought this reply should be public.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DarkNLovely

Dark am I, yet lovely.....Song of Songs 1:5
Jul 25, 2007
3,012
140
Where da party at!
✟18,913.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Because I am an impulsive fool who should keep his ears and eyes open, mouth closed, and fingers far from the keyboard.

Because of you, SpyridonOCA & buzuxi02, I have deleted my links in Post #2. I will try to cease pronouncing who is and is not Orthodox or “canonical”. Especially as a catechumen, it is not my place.

But I agree with Philothei. If you want to continue this, please PM me. I will not continue a conversation in this thread. But I thought this reply should be public.
If it makes you feel any better, I think you're just grand and I have always enjoyed your posts! :pink:

Thanks guys!
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.