unborn child

[charlottetu]

is there any where in the bible where God/Jesus talks about concern for the unborn child?

 

[ZiSunka]

You alone created my inner being. You knitted me together inside my mother. 14 I will give thanks to you because I have been so amazingly and miraculously made. Your works are miraculous, and my soul is fully aware of this. 15 My bones were not hidden from you when I was being made in secret, when I was being skillfully woven in an underground workshop. 16 Your eyes saw me when I was only a fetus. Every day [of my life] was recorded in your book before one of them had taken place.
Psalms 139: 13-16

 

[caley]

Yes.  In Matthew, it mentions that John the Baptist leapt for joy in Elizabeth's womb when she and Mary got together.  If this doesn't make a biblical case for the sapience of the unborn, I don't know what dos.

 

[MizDoulos]

The topic is more suited for discussion here. Moved from QAC.

 

[paulewog]

Also note in the OT where it talks about what happens to a person that causes (by hitting or something like that) a woman's baby to die (still inside the womb). I forget where that is though. :o I think it's in Exodus, Levitcus, Numbers, or Deuteronomy

 

[Texas Lynn]

Anti-abortionism as practiced today is not Biblical, however. It is simply a social and political agenda to control women.

No one advocates abortion. However, restrictions on access to abortion are a wrongheaded public policy. Our last elected President expressed a desire to make abortion "safe, legal, and rare". Those were good sentiments. The way to do that is to empower women and girls.

 

[seebs]

Well, it's worth noting: What happens to a person who causes a woman's baby to die inside the womb is a lot less than what happens to a person who kills a woman's child outside the womb. Perhaps we should take that distinction as Biblical after all.

 

[dignitized]

Originally posted by Texas Lynn
Anti-abortionism as practiced today is not Biblical, however. It is simply a social and political agenda to control women.

 

huh??

 

you might like this link:

 

http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.org/index2.htm

 

 

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Texas Lynn
Anti-abortionism as practiced today is not Biblical, however. It is simply a social and political agenda to control women.

No one advocates abortion. However, restrictions on access to abortion are a wrongheaded public policy. Our last elected President expressed a desire to make abortion "safe, legal, and rare". Those were good sentiments. The way to do that is to empower women and girls.

Except in cases of rape, no one forces a woman to open her legs and accept the man. Abortion today is caused by lack of self-control, not by external control or oppression of women.

The more women and girls are "empowered" by the tyranny of extra-marital sex, the more abortion flourishes. Who is oppressing these women but the very people who claim to be freeing them?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Originally posted by Br. Max
 

huh??

 

you might like this link:

 

http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.org/index2.htm

 

 

Quite so.  Yeah, I've seen that website before.  It's pretty bizarre.

Of course, it's obvious many if not most of the wives who claim to be submissive to their husbands are obviously in control.  This is what is known in the sadomasochistic community as "topping from the bottom"  and it's fairly common.  If you haven't seen the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" I'd highly recommend it if only for one scene, where the bride-to-be (Nia Varaldos) and her mother (Lainie Kazan) are conferring about how to address the problem that the Dad (Michael Constantine) will not like the fact that the groom-to-be (John Corbett) is not Greek Orthodox.  Says the mother:  "Man is the head of the family, but woman is the neck.  And the neck can turn the head any way she wants!"

 

 

[Texas Lynn]

Originally posted by lambslove
Except in cases of rape, no one forces a woman to open her legs and accept the man. Abortion today is caused by lack of self-control, not by external control or oppression of women.

The more women and girls are "empowered" by the tyranny of extra-marital sex, the more abortion flourishes. Who is oppressing these women but the very people who claim to be freeing them?

 

I can't disagree with your sentiments entirely but I don't like the vulgar anti-womanism expressed in the "opening legs" remark.  In a world where every woman is deemed either virgin or harlot the only decent thing to do is be a harlot with pride.  It takes two to begin a pregnancy the usual way so the woman who participates in such is in no way less than the man who does.  Perhaps if girls and women felt valued and honored by society they would be less likely to "spread their legs " as you cavalierly put it. 

 

[seebs]

I do always wonder where the condemnation is of the teenage fathers. After all, it doesn't matter how promiscuous or wanton a teenage girl is if the teenage boys are all unwilling to father children until they're married.

I actually have more sympathy for the girl; she's often under a lot more emotional pressure, and getting a lot less actual support from family and friends.

 

[dignitized]

Originally posted by Texas Lynn
Quite so.  Yeah, I've seen that website before.  It's pretty bizarre.

Of course, it's obvious many if not most of the wives who claim to be submissive to their husbands are obviously in control.  This is what is known in the sadomasochistic community as "topping from the bottom"  and it's fairly common.  If you haven't seen the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" I'd highly recommend it if only for one scene, where the bride-to-be (Nia Varaldos) and her mother (Lainie Kazan) are conferring about how to address the problem that the Dad (Michael Constantine) will not like the fact that the groom-to-be (John Corbett) is not Greek Orthodox.  Says the mother:  "Man is the head of the family, but woman is the neck.  And the neck can turn the head any way she wants!"

 

 

My dear I would like to reccomend a book to you.  From the few posts I have seen you post to date I am sure that you would benefit from it in your Christian walk - LIBERATION THROUGH SUBMISSION by P.B. Wilson

As for the website I posted - bizzar? not in the least.

 

[Angelus00]

Well Seebs,

As a parent of a couple of teenage boys, I have to agree. My boys, while not perfect , have been taught respect and responsibility. We'll have to see if it "takes." My middle son (14 yrs old this December) was propositioned by a friend's sister a couple of weeks ago and, to my delight, declined her "charms." Personally, I wanted to go rip her t**s off. I have quite a ways to go on my journey. *sigh* There's alot of this type of stuff going on. I ask myself, where ARE the parents of these kids!! To say the least, my son is not allowed there if the parents are not there. I was very proud of his response but very saddened that it even happened.

Pax

 

[dignitized]

angelus: rotfl at your reaction. blunt - honest - real . . . PTL

 

[seebs]

Heh! Nice to know some of the parents of the boys are doing their part. I always hated the way people were like "oh, boys will be boys". Well, if "boys will be boys" and girls are supposed to be pure and chaste, our only options are homosexuality and pedophilia... So maybe boys shouldn't be "boys" in that particular way.

 

[dignitized]

its all about teaching our kids selfocntrol and to DENY their passions. YEA they may feel attracted to some person - but does that mean to act upon that attraction? Thanks to the "free love" menatlity of MY parents generation - you lovely babyboomer hippies  - the mantra of today is: IF IT FEELS GOOD DO IT.

 

[ZooMom]

I can't disagree with your sentiments entirely but I don't like the vulgar anti-womanism expressed in the "opening legs" remark. In a world where every woman is deemed either virgin or harlot the only decent thing to do is be a harlot with pride. It takes two to begin a pregnancy the usual way so the woman who participates in such is in no way less than the man who does. Perhaps if girls and women felt valued and honored by society they would be less likely to "spread their legs " as you cavalierly put it.

Maybe if everyone just got over the 'poor-me-I'm-a-victim-of-society' and started being responsible for themselves without excuses, we might all be better off. The "I had promiscuous sex, became pregnant, and had an abortion because society undervalues women" really doesn't work for me. Especially since I happen to be a woman with the same pressures and opportunities of any other woman. You aren't empowering women by making excuses for their poor choices. You are enabling them to continue making poor choices without consequences.

And I must say that I take extreme exception to your comment that all women are viewed either as virgins or harlots. It offends me, and I sure it offends a great many men who have nothing but tender affection and great respect for women. As they should, as we are neither virgin or harlot, but partner, helpmate, wife, and mother.

 

[dignitized]

zoomom: have you read:

A NATION OF VICTIMS by charles sykes?? I'm reading it now it would be funny if it wasn't so scarry

 

[seebs]

I agree that the comment is offensive, but I think it is a fair depiction of an attitude I've seen in a lot of parts of our culture. If a boy and a girl have sex, the girl is "dirty" and "soiled goods", and the boy is just a boy... That's not universal, but it's common enough to be a real problem.