Unaccompanied Singing

[JM]

"As for instrumental music, I fear that it often destroys the singing of the congregation, and detracts from the spirituality and simplicity of worship. If I could crowd a house twenty times as big as this by the fine music which some churches delight in, God forbid that I should touch it; but let us have the best and most orderly harmony we can make—let the saints come with heir hearts in the best humour, and their voices in the best tune, and let them take care that there be no slovenliness and discord in the public worship of the Most High." Spurgeon

 

[saintboniface]

"As for instrumental music, I fear that it often destroys the singing of the congregation, and detracts from the spirituality and simplicity of worship. If I could crowd a house twenty times as big as this by the fine music which some churches delight in, God forbid that I should touch it; but let us have the best and most orderly harmony we can make—let the saints come with heir hearts in the best humour, and their voices in the best tune, and let them take care that there be no slovenliness and discord in the public worship of the Most High." Spurgeon

Seems odd that this person can say that instrumental music detracts from the worship of God but has no concern that the singing does the same. How can he say one form of worship is better than another when the bible lays down no set form of worship (outside of the ritual of breaking bed as commanded by Jesus)?

The Christian Reformed church next door to my house was just a thumpin' this December. They had drums and who knows what else blasting out a lively rendition of Gloria.

 

[Willie T]

I was CoC for too long to want any of that a capella pridefulness any longer.

 

[JM]

From my continued reading it seems instruments were not accepted in the early church or Protestant church. Instruments were used during the Dark Ages but not widely.

Any further thoughts on the subject? I would prefer to keep this conversation centered on scripture and history keeping anecdotals to a minimum.



j

 

[nobdysfool]

As a musician who has played in "church bands" before, I can attest to the power that music can bring about in worship, when done properly and with sensitivity to the Holy Spirit. In most congregations, there are those who cannot carry a tune in a bucket. That would be a huge distraction to me....

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Personally would rather listen to a roomful of people who cannot carry a tune, as opposed to a roomful of slick professionals, greatly lacking in conviction, sincerity, humility, and genuine praise to God from the heart. Not the judge of hearts, but have listened to many professionals in the past.

Of course I see not why there cannot be both rather than either or.

The biggest problem in worship for me is me, my heart of hearts and all the heart problems from indwelling sin. How desperately wicked the heart is, I struggle with obedience and sacrifice, for the insincerity that overflows from my heart. God save me from me and have mercy! If only it were possible to permanently erase the worldly things from my mind, if only I were not so foolish as to allow myself to get sucked into worldly things that will not last. The more I think on the holiness of God, the more I realize how desperately I need Christ every day! To be sure, where I fail I depended on me, and where there is success there is dependence on Christ.

 

[twin1954]

Far too often, whether with instruments or without, the singing isn't worship anyway it is about being seen and heard. Singing praise to the Lord means nothing when you are doing it to impress your fellow man.

 

[JM]

Our worship music often becomes about us, what we feel and not what the words are expressing.

Did you folks know some churches have taken to the practice of hiring professional, unbelieving musicians, to play church services?

Crazy.

Anyone else find it weird that musical instruments were not used in the church until the 19th century? (baring a few Roman Catholic organs here and there)

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Our worship music often becomes about us, what we feel and not what the words are expressing.

I have long thought the words are most important...personally I've had times where I start out not "feeling" it, but then after a bit, listening and thinking on the words, the Spirit rises up in me and like wax the Lord melts my heart.

Did you folks know some churches have taken to the practice of hiring professional, unbelieving musicians, to play church services?

It's not surprising, people get desperate will do about anything to draw people in the doors, without realizing gimmicks can only go so far, and just might draw some people you'd rather not want in your doors. Would you believe a pastor once gave my wife and I a hundred dollar bill, without us ever having steeped foot in his Church? Of course we visited a few times, and when it became evident we wouldn't be returning, he wouldn't have anything more to do with us. I could see it in his eyes, the man was flirting with danger.

Anyone else find it weird that musical instruments were not used in the church until the 19th century? (baring a few Roman Catholic organs here and there)

I've always been of the mindset that there is Biblical support for the use of musical instruments, especially in the Psalms. It seems there might be some interpretive wiggle room concerning the "Regulative Principal". Said and done, Sola Scriptura right?

 

[JustAsIam77]

"As for instrumental music, I fear that it often destroys the singing of the congregation, and detracts from the spirituality and simplicity of worship. If I could crowd a house twenty times as big as this by the fine music which some churches delight in, God forbid that I should touch it; but let us have the best and most orderly harmony we can make—let the saints come with heir hearts in the best humour, and their voices in the best tune, and let them take care that there be no slovenliness and discord in the public worship of the Most High." Spurgeon

Amen! Oh for the days of my youth when there were no drums and cymbals with guitars and tambourines, only the beautiful harmonious singing of the congregation lifting up their praises to the Lord through song.

 

[JM]

Just a few points that I’ve read to exclude musical instruments in worship:

- David was given divine revelation to use them (when to use them, how to use them, etc.) which is why we find them listed in the Psalms (in the AV with instructions on what to use)

- The inclusion of musical instruments was not commanded/given by divine revelation in the NT

- Musical instruments were associated with worship in the Temple

- Synagogues did not use musical instruments because they were apart of worship in the Temple

- The early church, following the pattern of the NT, did not use instruments

- The church at large refused to use instruments in worship until the 19th century

- The new covenant deals with the heart, circumcision was of the heart not flesh, worship in the NT is a matter of the heart

- When Protestants, following the lead of Roman Catholicism, wanted to use instruments the argument was made, “to keep our children from leaving the church”

Thanks folks.

jm

 

[saintboniface]

- When Protestants, following the lead of Roman Catholicism, wanted to use instruments the argument was made, “to keep our children from leaving the church”

jm

Where is this one pulled from?

 

[JM]

I've read it a few different works over the last few months. I believe it was and Anglican who wanted to use instruments to keep the attention of the children.

What Early Christians believed about USING INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC

 

[nobdysfool]

I think that in the case of the early church, especially during the time of the Apostles and beyond, instruments were not used because they would draw the attention of the "authorities", given the furtive nature of many of the early gatherings of believers. From the Roman view, they were engaging in illegal activities. Hence, instruments would cause undo attention, and they were not convenient to carry around. Also, there was no such thing as a guitar, or lute, in those days. No pianos or harpsichords, either. Instrumentation, if any would have been sparse to non-existant. personally I think the reason that it was carried so far for so long was more a matter of unthinking tradition, as there is no clear reference in the NT to instruments or forbidding their use. I don't believe a truly scriptural argument can be made prohibiting the use of instruments. What can be said is that, as with other things in a church service, all things should be done decently and in order.

 

[JM]

Is there scriptural support for NOT using instruments in the NT? We cannot find any reference for the use of instruments in the NT, nothing directly commanded, but I'm uncomfortable with arguments from silence. The quotes I've read from the ECF's clearly state that using instruments were apart of Judaism and not Christianity.

 

[nobdysfool]

Is there scriptural support for NOT using instruments in the NT? We cannot find any reference for the use of instruments in the NT, nothing directly commanded, but I'm uncomfortable with arguments from silence.

an argument from silence is an inherently weak argument, because there's really nothing to hang one's hat on. I tend to hold the view that what is not specifically prohibited, is permissible, provided that the use conforms to other principles regarding worship.

The quotes I've read from the ECF's clearly state that using instruments were apart of Judaism and not Christianity.

Since the ECF's writings were not considered Scripture, their opinions likewise do not rise to that level. Also, wouldn't it be prudent to consider the times they lived in, and their standing vis-a-vis the Roman authorities? As I pointed out earlier, from the Roman point of view, these people were engaged in illegal activities, so it would be natural for them to keep as low a profile as possible. Instruments would not be conducive to a "low profile", IMO.

 

[dhh712]

From my continued reading it seems instruments were not accepted in the early church or Protestant church. Instruments were used during the Dark Ages but not widely.

Any further thoughts on the subject? I would prefer to keep this conversation centered on scripture and history keeping anecdotals to a minimum.



j

From what I remember of "Presbyterians of the South, Vol. I", there was such a ruckus when organs were first introduced into the churches (this was probably late 1700's, early 1800's or so; since I read the book over a year ago, my memory of the precise years during which this happened is faded though).

Is there scriptural support for NOT using instruments in the NT? We cannot find any reference for the use of instruments in the NT, nothing directly commanded, but I'm uncomfortable with arguments from silence. The quotes I've read from the ECF's clearly state that using instruments were apart of Judaism and not Christianity.

My Reformed Presbyterian brethren claim there is, though I have read the Bible through with this in my mind and was not convicted of the truth of it. Thus, while I do not hold a personal conviction of no instruments, it just remains a preference for me for there to be no more than a piano/organ.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

In most congregations, there are those who cannot carry a tune in a bucket. That would be a huge distraction to me....[/QUOTE/]

Hey, I resemble that remark

I attend a Amish Mennonite church, its a capella , grew up I. F. Baptist, which mostly used piano and organ. I reckon the main thing is where your heart is, and what you really are singing for. I myself get caught in the trap of routine, ritual, and my heart is not there. I think it would be nice if churches would put away the scripted routine and come together for service, and let it flow naturally, this at least could interrupt the "programmed" performance by those like myself, who just start following the same ole routine.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

I think that in the case of the early church, especially during the time of the Apostles and beyond, instruments were not used because they would draw the attention of the "authorities", given the furtive nature of many of the early gatherings of believers. From the Roman view, they were engaging in illegal activities. Hence, instruments would cause undo attention, and they were not convenient to carry around. Also, there was no such thing as a guitar, or lute, in those days. No pianos or harpsichords, either. Instrumentation, if any would have been sparse to non-existant. personally I think the reason that it was carried so far for so long was more a matter of unthinking tradition, as there is no clear reference in the NT to instruments or forbidding their use. I don't believe a truly scriptural argument can be made prohibiting the use of instruments. What can be said is that, as with other things in a church service, all things should be done decently and in order.

I totally agree. The Anabaptist history of my church shares same reasons for not using instruments, musical instruments caught the attention of the catholic (Roman Catholic, interesting) authorities, and its easier to run without them. Tradition is strong with the Anabaptist, and change is slow to be accepted, which, from just looking around today, is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

Personally would rather listen to a roomful of people who cannot carry a tune, as opposed to a roomful of slick professionals, greatly lacking in conviction, sincerity, humility, and genuine praise to God from the heart. Not the judge of hearts, but have listened to many professionals in the past.

Of course I see not why there cannot be both rather than either or.

The biggest problem in worship for me is me, my heart of hearts and all the heart problems from indwelling sin. How desperately wicked the heart is, I struggle with obedience and sacrifice, for the insincerity that overflows from my heart. God save me from me and have mercy! If only it were possible to permanently erase the worldly things from my mind, if only I were not so foolish as to allow myself to get sucked into worldly things that will not last. The more I think on the holiness of God, the more I realize how desperately I need Christ every day! To be sure, where I fail I depended on me, and where there is success there is dependence on Christ.

Amen brother, Amen