ummm..Another Question! Sorry!!

[Polycarp1]

Poor Pope Liberius -- the only pope to hold Peter's see before 496 AD who didn't get canonized! Think he gets much ribbing from his fellow late vicars of Christ in Heaven?

The other thing that amazed me about this was how few of the later popes have been canonized -- since the late 1200s, only St. Pius V and St. Pius X, though there are a number of popes who have been beatified, the beloved John XXIII among them.

Popes are usually selected from among the senior bishops of the church -- since some date or other, by the College of Cardinals -- and hence tend to be quite along in years before being made pope. And the job must be wearing on the men who hold it. I believe I remember reading somewhere that Pio Nono and Leo XIII together represent the longest period when there were only two popes in succession in history.

 

[Michelina]

the early popes were all martyrs I believe.

Taking the job was like signing your own Death Warrant.
The Romans paid a hefty bounty for info on the Papa. It was simply a matter of time.

For centuries, Catholic Missionaries went into the bush and the jungles, knowing that it was very likely they would not survive. Prophets have always been treated this way, especially the Greatest Prophet.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

How do you know Jesus established the Catholic church? Jesus didn't say "on this rock will I build my Catholic church." There were other religions around when Jesus was around and I thought Jesus was Jewish.

In the beginning, there was only one Church. If one traces this Church through history, one ends up with the Catholic and Orthodox churches of today.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

This thread is back open. Please keep in mind our forum rules:

3) Non-Catholic members (eg. Protestant members) can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Catholic doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Catholic. Any debate posts by Non-Catholics will be deleted or moved to the Interdenominational Doctrine Debate forum. In other words, only Catholic members can debate here.

http://www.christianforums.com/t20790

 

[prodromos]

Because they died. The Papacy is not like the Presidency, John. It isn't democratic and we can't "kick 'em our" or ask for his resignation. I can't speak for the earliest Popes, but in recent times, a new Pope is selected only when the existing Pope dies. Pope John Paul II, when recently asked if he would resign due to his failing health, replied.."To whom would I send my resignation?"

I asked because Michelle seemed to imply in her earlier post that death was not the only reason for the chair becoming vacant.

And just for a note....we don't ever refer to the Papacy as the "throne." Your bias is rearing it's ugly head.

I had no idea the use of this term was frowned upon and certainly did not intend to suggest anything by it. I will not use it again. Truth be told though, being Orthodox, I can't help but show a certain amount of bias in my posts. If you are honest you will admit the same of your own posts. I hope that bias would never be described as ugly though.

John.

 

[Michelina]

I asked because Michelle seemed to imply in her earlier post that death was not the only reason for the chair becoming vacant.

Abdication is possible. e.g. Pope St Celestine V.

I had no idea the use of this term was frowned upon and certainly did not intend to suggest anything by it. I will not use it again. Truth be told though, being Orthodox, I can't help but show a certain amount of bias in my posts. If you are honest you will admit the same of your own posts. I hope that bias would never be described as ugly though.

The term "Throne" was used in the past. It is frowned upon today since it sounds somewhat Triumphalistic. The Orthodox perspective might seem a bias to catholics, just as a Catholic perspective might seem a bias to Orthodox people. What we need to focus on is Our Lord and our fraternity in Him. In heaven, we will be One Body in Christ. If we look at things 'sub specie aeternitatis' (from the point of view of eternity), our perspectives will merge.

 

[Benedicta00]

I asked because Michelle seemed to imply in her earlier post that death was not the only reason for the chair becoming vacant.

I wasn't implying any such thing.

 

[isshinwhat]

No need to be so touchy, Michelle...

For what it is worth, the word cathedra can be translated either as "throne" or "chair," throne being the preferred term when referring to Peter as the "Prince of the Apostles."

God Bless,

Neal

 

[Benedicta00]

No need to be so touchy, Michelle...

For what it is worth, the word cathedra can be translated either as "throne" or "chair," throne being the preferred term when referring to Peter as the "Prince of the Apostles."

God Bless,

Neal

I wasn’t at all. I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I never complained about the word “throne.” I was just clearing up that when I posted what I did, I wasn’t implying what was thought, that’s all.

 

[Godspyro]

Consider the following:

Matthew 12:25 - Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided againsts himself. How then can his kingdom stand.

I know this is talking about driving out demons however if you look at it deeper we can get a good lesson. I think we agree that we all love Jesus and in my opinion we are all "Christians" be it a Catholic christian, jewish christian, baptist, non-demo, or whatever we all love Jesus and thats the most important part. We shouldnt be divided amongst ourselves because if we are then how can we stand? I love debates myself but Jesus never meant for us to get caught up over who has the best "Religion" and why, he simply called us to love him. Jesus said in Matthew 22:37 that the greatest commandment is to "love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all you mind" and the second is "Love your neighbor as yourself".

Now I dont see any anger here but we need to realize when debating that God says Love is the most important. Just something that I am dealing with

 

[ps139]

Consider the following:

Matthew 12:25 - Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided againsts himself. How then can his kingdom stand.

I know this is talking about driving out demons however if you look at it deeper we can get a good lesson. I think we agree that we all love Jesus and in my opinion we are all "Christians" be it a Catholic christian, jewish christian, baptist, non-demo, or whatever we all love Jesus and thats the most important part. We shouldnt be divided amongst ourselves because if we are then how can we stand? I love debates myself but Jesus never meant for us to get caught up over who has the best "Religion" and why, he simply called us to love him. Jesus said in Matthew 22:37 that the greatest commandment is to "love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all you mind" and the second is "Love your neighbor as yourself".

Now I dont see any anger here but we need to realize when debating that God says Love is the most important. Just something that I am dealing with

Love is the most important thing - 1 Cor 13 - but we all have an obligation to seek out the Truth, it shall set us free (Jn. 8:32). We should search for the truth with reverence and gentleness, and keep our minds set on that goal.

Jesus wanted a Church unified in Faith and Love, also in Truth.