UMC's first openly gay bishop

BearJMG · Aug 23, 2016

My name is not Jim and I am not of a denomination specifically on this forum. I attend a Nazarene church and did not want to specify my denomination at the creation of this account. Also, don't be so defensive. I did not say anything offensive or say anything against you.

BearJMG · Aug 23, 2016

I have petitioned to change my denomination. When it is done there should be no more issues with me adding my opinion in this area.

Dave-W · Aug 23, 2016

farout said:
The Methodist Seminary in KC MO in 1986 openly had wear Blue Genes on Friday id you support Homosexuality. It all started long ago.

Yeah - the Gay community at Michigan State had a "Gay Blue Jean Day" back in the late 1970s. If you wore jeans on that day, you were considered to be gay yourself.

David4223 · Aug 23, 2016

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BearJMG · Aug 23, 2016

What bible are you reading? The bible is clear that men shouldn't be with men and women shouldn't be with women. And while it does not mention transgender, it would be unreasonable to believe that God would be okay with that. He made us perfect. We do not choose our gender. circuitrider, the bible is 100% clear about sex and marriage. And it is not between two of the same gender. I even mentioned leviticus 20:13. That is all the evidence you need.

Dave-W · Aug 25, 2016

Oy. This is getting too close to a discussion that AFAIK is banned in this forum.

seeking.IAM · Aug 25, 2016

I was a UMC PK and a member for over 50 years before taking up with the Anglicans. I pray for my UMC sisters and brothers that they may come to a resolution of this issue in some manner that does not rip this fine church asunder. I would be very sad if the church divides.

circuitrider · Aug 27, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Oy. This is getting too close to a discussion that AFAIK is banned in this forum.

We had a vote some time back and discussions related to homosexuality is allowed in this forum, if that is what you are referring to.

Dave-W · Aug 29, 2016

circuitrider said:
We had a vote some time back and discussions related to homosexuality is allowed in this forum, if that is what you are referring to.

Oh. OK. I was under the impression the vote went the other way ......

hedrick · Aug 29, 2016

9 to one to allow.

circuitrider · Aug 29, 2016

hedrick said:
9 to one to allow.

Thanks Hedrick! I was looking for the vote count.

BearJMG · Aug 30, 2016

It says in the bible that sex between two people of the same gender is sin. Therefore it is a sin to do such a thing. It does not however say that two people can not be married of the same gender, but who marries and does not have sex? Also, priests and pastors are to avoid sin and be a good example of Godliness. A homosexual can not be a good example.

Meowzltov · Aug 30, 2016

BearJMG said:
Also, priests and pastors are to avoid sin and be a good example of Godliness. A homosexual can not be a good example.

A homosexual is defined as someone with same sex attraction.

That doesn't mean they have to act on it. They can choose to be celibate. If a homosexual priest or pastor lives celibately, there's no problem. Being tempted is not a sin.

Meowzltov · Aug 30, 2016

circuitrider said:
Christians disagree about the "clarity" of the Bible's statements on sexual issues.

Legitimately? Only to a degree. When the Bible calls something an abomination, you have to be in pretty strong denial to say that the Bible is okay with it.

Dave-W · Aug 31, 2016

BearJMG said:
It says in the bible that sex between two people of the same gender is sin.

Actually it only says sex between men is prohibited. There is only one verse that addresses sex between women and it is not all that clear that it is a prohibition:

Rom 1.26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

The next verse brings more clarity to what the apostle is talking about, but specifically addresses men:

27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

JCFantasy23 · Aug 31, 2016

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I have cleaned this thread, trying to leave relevant discussion that is not violating for all posters participating.

Please remember that you cannot debate here if you are not Methodist.

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circuitrider · Aug 31, 2016

Open Heart said:
Legitimately? Only to a degree. When the Bible calls something an abomination, you have to be in pretty strong denial to say that the Bible is okay with it.

The Old Testament also calls eating shell fish an abomination, the wearing of mixed fabrics an abomination, etc. It is a term used to described forbidden religious practices. There are quite a few of the Old Testament religious practices that we no longer follow as Christians including the above.

What happens is that people have cherry picked out the sexuality abomination statements and passed over many of the others without giving a theological reason for doing so. I would argue that the holiness code of the Jewish people in the Old Testament does not apply to Christians. We don't eat Kosher. We don't follow Jewish dress codes. We don't follow Jewish Sabbath laws.

(Don't forget to toss all of you cotten and polyester mixed dress shirts. According to the Old Testament they are an "abomination.")

circuitrider · Aug 31, 2016

JCFantasy23 said:
Please remember that you cannot debate here if you are not Methodist.

Thanks!

Anto9us · Aug 31, 2016

I went back to the United Methodist Church where I used to sing in the choir when I was in my home-town before..
Wonderful.
No arguing about Bishop Karen in Sunday School, any slight mention of the matter seemed very accepting.
New Lady Pastor preached very well on Jacob wrestling with the man/angel/God and getting his name changed to Israel...

I got a part time job mon-sat that will leave Wed night free for choir practice
and Sunday for church

I have not read any of the UMC Theologian FURNISH talking about "temple prostitutes and pederasty" being the main focus of the texts usually used as the "clobber verses" against gays, but those same ideas were detailed by a guy named Townsend -- I read his stuff, it was plausible

I don't know how to get the UMC icon to appear;

I may officially re-join this UMC 11th or 18th

I guess then I can officially DEBATE here

Til then -- watch out and don't boil any kids in their mother's milk!
(That's lambs or goats, not human kids...)

Dave-W · Aug 31, 2016

circuitrider said:
The Old Testament also calls eating shell fish an abomination, the wearing of mixed fabrics an abomination, etc. It is a term used to described forbidden religious practices.

Actually, "abomination" was specifically used of practices that "defile the land." (lev 18) It is not used of other prohibited practices. Eating trayfe or wearing mixed fabrics were not described in that way.

I would argue that the holiness code of the Jewish people in the Old Testament does not apply to Christians. We don't eat Kosher. We don't follow Jewish dress codes. We don't follow Jewish Sabbath laws.

BTW, OpenHeart is Jewish, so she still must abide by those things.

Don't forget to toss all of you cotton and polyester mixed dress shirts.

The text says specifically flax and wool. It does not specify beyond that.
Mixing cotton and poly, or wool and poly, seems to be ok. Even the rabbis with their extensions allow it even for "holy" ritual garments.

UMC's first openly gay bishop

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