UK Election 2024: Key Issues

[Hans Blaster]

As someone who loves all the facts and figures of an election (and I haven't yet had time to absorb them all), the UK election has a simple message or motto: "kick the Tories out". The betting scandal (Tory party insiders using inside info to place bets on the date of the election) was the last straw of a scandal riven, corrupt and confused Tory government. One media commentator put Labour's large majority, on a relatively small popular vote, down to efficient targeting of effort by the party, but I think rather it shows the voters understood how best to kick the Tories out. There were online tools available which showed voters how to vote tactically to kick the Tories out. As a former Labour candidate I like that phrase.

We read a lot in the media about the advance of the right in Europe and yet in two large countries (UK and France) the left have advanced.

French elections: The left-wing coalition is at the forefront of an unprecedented political situation

France election: surprise win for leftwing alliance keeps Le Pen’s far right from power

View attachment 351253

View attachment 351254

In France the center and the left join together to stop Le Pen's party. As they were chanting in Paris tonight: "everyone hates the fascists"

(And I was not joking in my previous post.)

 

[Vanellus]

The relative silence on Brexit can be explained by a perception by the parties that its divisive nature would distract from the main points a party wanted to get across to the public. One exception was the Green Party who are committed to rejoining the EU with the proviso it would be a long term project. In fact, the left wing Green Party did well, increasing its vote share in practically every seat although usually from a small base. It did increase its number of seats from one to four and that was down to efficient targeting of effort.

One annoying feature in how the results are presented is that percentage gains are related to the total electorate in a seat. But when your previous percentage was, say 5%, then a 2% rise to 7% is actually a large increase in the vote achieved by that party.

 

[mindlight]

The Tories sabotaged themselves and thoroughly deserved this outcome. Given their atrocious betrayal of their base I expected them to lose even more. The Tories need to be destroyed because as a 'conservative' party they fail in preserving anything.

That is all very well and I agree that the aristocratic nobility of the old true blues has been replaced by something altogether more crass and corrupt but what replaces the Tories on the right of British politics? Reform are populist nationalists out of touch with the national interest and the current Tory Party requires serious reform and a recovery of its sense of identity. It used to be about King, Country, and the Church of England and about preserving the best of our nation. But now we have a multifaith King, a compromised Anglican hierarchy more interested in blessing sins than preaching virtue, and a party that is focused on a version of capitalist success that has nothing to do with God. Lies, heresy, immorality and greed are not values worth conserving, so what are? Kier Starmer, an atheist, has spoken in terms of secular institutions like the NHS, equality and redistribution but these are not the core values of a nation - simply staying alive and sharing wealth has to have a larger purpose and direction and this is missing from all the parties right now.

Until Britain recovers a sense of its core values how can any party stand for ttrue conservatism?

 

[Hans Blaster]

That is all very well and I agree that the aristocratic nobility of the old true blues has been replaced by something altogether more crass and corrupt but what replaces the Tories on the right of British politics? Reform are populist nationalists out of touch with the national interest and the current Tory Party requires serious reform and a recovery of its sense of identity.

I'm not quite sure what the "lib-dems" are, but perhaps they could do the trick for the those not sucked in by the populist nationalists. The monarchists might not fit, I don't know, but they can wallow in their sty.

It used to be about King, Country, and the Church of England and about preserving the best of our nation. But now we have a multifaith King, a compromised Anglican hierarchy more interested in blessing sins than preaching virtue, and a party that is focused on a version of capitalist success that has nothing to do with God.

Perhaps I am confused about the nature of decrepit monarchies, but isn't "the king" just one guy. How can one guy be "multifaith" or is this referring to his whole familly, or household, or something else lost on us republicans?

Lies, heresy, immorality and greed are not values worth conserving, so what are? Kier Starmer, an atheist, has spoken in terms of secular institutions like the NHS, equality and redistribution but these are not the core values of a nation - simply staying alive and sharing wealth has to have a larger purpose and direction and this is missing from all the parties right now.

So secular institutions and an atheist head of government are not worthy of something? (Not sure what, though Starmer isn't a Tory, so I'm not sure how he matters to the state of the Tory party.) After this and your extolling of "King, Country, and the Church of England", it sounds like the Tories were a Christian party, a Nationalist party, and a Monarchist party. How is that different that "Christian Nationalism/traditionalism"?

Until Britain recovers a sense of its core values how can any party stand for true conservatism?

The rest of the world had enough of British core values.

 

[mindlight]

The relative silence on Brexit can be explained by a perception by the parties that its divisive nature would distract from the main points a party wanted to get across to the public. One exception was the Green Party who are committed to rejoining the EU with the proviso it would be a long term project. In fact, the left wing Green Party did well, increasing its vote share in practically every seat although usually from a small base. It did increase its number of seats from one to four and that was down to efficient targeting of effort.

One annoying feature in how the results are presented is that percentage gains are related to the total electorate in a seat. But when your previous percentage was, say 5%, then a 2% rise to 7% is actually a large increase in the vote achieved by that party.

No one except the Greens wants to talk about BREXIT right now. The passions are still too raw and the divisive damage of the last transition is still too fresh in people's minds. But simply rejoining the EU is not the solution to Britain's problems although in the long term, I and many others may hope for that. More fundamental is getting the economy sorted out and recovering a core sense of identity and value to the United Kingdom that can unite the nations of the union in a common cause. 7% is nothing in a first-past-the-post system. Labor won a landslide with just over a third of the votes but they have a presence in all the constituencies.

 

[mindlight]

I'm not quite sure what the "lib-dems" are, but perhaps they could do the trick for the those not sucked in by the populist nationalists. The monarchists might not fit, I don't know, but they can wallow in their sty.

Perhaps I am confused about the nature of decrepit monarchies, but isn't "the king" just one guy. How can one guy be "multifaith" or is this referring to his whole familly, or household, or something else lost on us republicans?

So secular institutions and an atheist head of government are not worthy of something? (Not sure what, though Starmer isn't a Tory, so I'm not sure how he matters to the state of the Tory party.) After this and your extolling of "King, Country, and the Church of England", it sounds like the Tories were a Christian party, a Nationalist party, and a Monarchist party. How is that different that "Christian Nationalism/traditionalism"?

The rest of the world had enough of British core values.

Starmer co-opted the definition of conservatism by suggesting alternate institutions that needed conserving to replace the traditional Tory institutions. If you were more familiar with British politics you might have understood the point.

Britain's core values used to include Christian faith which is still growing globally and has never been more influential on a global scale. Britain also pioneered the global market place which is also something now here to stay. The British monarchy remains the head of the global Commonwealth and the head of state of important countries like the UK, Canada and Australia. Indians still play cricket and vote in a parliamentary democracy as do many other countries around the world that have a British background. Britain pioneered the development of national health services and the welfare state. Your atheist skepticism seems a little out of touch with actual global trends. The more important question is whether Britain still subscribes to the values that made it great.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Starmer co-opted the definition of conservatism by suggesting alternate institutions that needed conserving to replace the traditional Tory institutions. If you were more familiar with British politics you might have understood the point.

You mentioned some government institutions, now you are labeling them as "Tory"?

Britain's core values used to include Christian faith which is still growing globally and has never been more influential on a global scale. Britain also pioneered the global market place which is also something now here to stay. The British monarchy remains the head of the global Commonwealth and the head of state of important countries like the UK, Canada and Australia. Indians still play cricket and vote in a parliamentary democracy as do many other countries around the world that have a British background. Britain pioneered the development of national health services and the welfare state.

Frankly, I barely think of Britian having culture, or what it's "core values" might be.

Your atheist skepticism seems a little out of touch with actual global trends. The more important question is whether Britain still subscribes to the values that made it great.

It's got little to do with atheism or skepticism, but instead on a hard republicanism.

 

[Whyayeman]

No one except the Greens wants to talk about BREXIT right now. The passions are still too raw and the divisive damage of the last transition is still too fresh in people's minds. But simply rejoining the EU is not the solution to Britain's problems although in the long term, I and many others may hope for that. More fundamental is getting the economy sorted out and recovering a core sense of identity and value to the United Kingdom that can unite the nations of the union in a common cause. 7% is nothing in a first-past-the-post system. Labor won a landslide with just over a third of the votes but they have a presence in all the constituencies.

The Brexit issue has been regarded as settled by the referendum only eight years ago, so was (almost) excluded from the hustings and not much mentioned buy the two main parties. Yet it is the elephant in the room. People refer to the issue as Regrexit; it is pretty clear that many who voted Leave in the referendum have regretted it. No tangible advantages have so far been noticed; many who were used to an easy holiday trip have discovered one or two distinct advantages to membership of the Union.

Our ancient voting system is well-understood by voters here. The Tories lost so many seats in Parliament (and in local elections held last May) through tactical voting. Many who voted Conservative last time decided to vote for the second party locally. The results were a collapse in the Conservative vote and the consequent victory of Labour. The Labour vote was largely unchanged.

It has been a remarkable turnaround from the worst result in Labour's history to the best, in less than five years.

 

[Vanellus]

The Brexit issue has been regarded as settled by the referendum only eight years ago, so was (almost) excluded from the hustings and not much mentioned buy the two main parties. Yet it is the elephant in the room. People refer to the issue as Regrexit; it is pretty clear that many who voted Leave in the referendum have regretted it. No tangible advantages have so far been noticed; many who were used to an easy holiday trip have discovered one or two distinct advantages to membership of the Union.

Our ancient voting system is well-understood by voters here. The Tories lost so many seats in Parliament (and in local elections held last May) through tactical voting. Many who voted Conservative last time decided to vote for the second party locally. The results were a collapse in the Conservative vote and the consequent victory of Labour. The Labour vote was largely unchanged.

It has been a remarkable turnaround from the worst result in Labour's history to the best, in less than five years.

Yes Labour used Obama's "Change" as their campaign motto but the voters had their own more memorable motto: "kick the Tories out".

 

[Whyayeman]

Yes Labour used Obama's "Change" as their campaign motto but the voters had their own more memorable motto: "kick the Tories out".

Yes. And did a good job.