UFOs

[nathanlandon1]

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[juvenissun]

It's a cultural interpretation, that' all

...

Personally, I don't think it's a retrofit. I think it's a culture-specific explanation, nothing more

It does not matter what culture and how specific it could be, it is still an UFO description. There is nothing like it on the earth.

 

[Ryal Kane]

If I rememer correctly, the appearance of alien creatures in so called ecnounters has changed over time to, lagging just behind the public perception.

When hollywood and comic aliens were robots, people who saw aliens claimed to see robots, then as media perception changed they became little green men, then ET, then greys. In other words people who claimed to see aliens were seeing what the public perception of aliens should look like.

Obvious explanation: Aliens are shapeshifters that read the mind of humanity.

 

[nathanlandon1]

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[Tinker Grey]

It's a cultural interpretation, that' all
However, UFO's, demonic or divine visitations, succubi, angels, etc etc etc are nothing more than cultural explanations of the same experiences.
To call it a retrofit is to miss the point.
"They" said demons, angels, gods
"We" say aliens from a different planet
Same phenomena, different interpretations, that's all.

That was Sagan's (and my) point. Sorry I did not write more clearly.

 

[Naraoia]

You win this thread.

 

[Wirraway]

If I rememer correctly, the appearance of alien creatures in so called ecnounters has changed over time to, lagging just behind the public perception.

When hollywood and comic aliens were robots, people who saw aliens claimed to see robots, then as media perception changed they became little green men, then ET, then greys. In other words people who claimed to see aliens were seeing what the public perception of aliens should look like.

Obvious explanation: Aliens are shapeshifters that read the mind of humanity.

after the movie Independence Day, UFOs suddenly became three miles wide. any casual listener of late night radio programs like Coast to Coast AM could have observed that the UFOOLogy lore followed the plot of the X Files.

 

[ReverendDG]

its not a moon its a spacestation!

 

[ReverendDG]

It does not matter what culture and how specific it could be, it is still an UFO description. There is nothing like it on the earth.

Ezechiel 1 is a vision of angels, namely Ophanim, they were literally the wheels of gods chariot.
jewish mythology is very strange and downright confusing. to call them ufos would be wrong, the writer knows what they are, so they are ifo's, but not aliens.

 

[juvenissun]

Ezechiel 1 is a vision of angels, namely Ophanim, they were literally the wheels of gods chariot.
jewish mythology is very strange and downright confusing. to call them ufos would be wrong, the writer knows what they are, so they are ifo's, but not aliens.

The writer described it well enough so that we know it is nothing like what we have so far. I wonder if there is any modern scientific/engineering analysis on the thing described in Eze 1.

 

[DaisyDay]

its not a moon its a spacestation!

Oh for goodness sakes! Don't you people know a death star when you see one?!

 

[USincognito]

I'm guessing it is a medieval representation of Ezekiel's vision.

OT: In Sagan's Demon Haunted World, he says that there are no records of UFOs recorded prior to the 40s. Prior to that, people did have experiences but they were attributed to the supernatural, e.g., succubi and incubi. That is, if we take UFOs to be those phenomena that are explained by visitors from other physical places (outside earth), UFOs were never claimed before the 1940s. All such phenomena before that were explained as spiritual experiences -- angels and demons, etc.

To call the event in Ezekiel a UFO is to impose a cultural interpretation where it isn't warranted; it's a retrofit.

A very minor correction to this. UFOs were reported (and even called such) prior to that time. Interestingly the shapes that were reported lend even more weight to skepticism as they were more often spherical or cigar shaped. Now, either the aliens upgraded their ship design, the civilizations that were visiting us then were wiped out by those visiting us now or they were the products of people's imagination. It should also be noted many 19th Century sightings were accompanied by Fortean activity (meteors, lights, etc.). The consistent reports of more aerodynamic spacecraft didn't happen until after Ken Arnold's 1947 report.

Sagan/Tinker are correct about earlier "abduction" phenomena being chalked up to the supernatural rather than aliens and there's very little reports of aliens at all until the 40s (one of the few I know of is the Aurora, TX crash in 1897, which likely was a hoax).

 

[tansy]

A very minor correction to this. UFOs were reported (and even called such) prior to that time. Interestingly the shapes that were reported lend even more weight to skepticism as they were more often spherical or cigar shaped. Now, either the aliens upgraded their ship design, the civilizations that were visiting us then were wiped out by those visiting us now or they were the products of people's imagination. It should also be noted many 19th Century sightings were accompanied by Fortean activity (meteors, lights, etc.). The consistent reports of more aerodynamic spacecraft didn't happen until after Ken Arnold's 1947 report.

That's interesting.....did you get that info from a book or the web. If so, would you be able to provide a link, please?

 

[USincognito]

That's interesting.....did you get that info from a book or the web. If so, would you be able to provide a link, please?

I'm a skeptic but I've had an interest in UFOlogy for 30 years. The Wikipedia UFO page will give you a good place to start on the changing nature of UFO encounters from the mid-1800s to present.
Unidentified flying object - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tansy]

I'm a skeptic but I've had an interest in UFOlogy for 30 years. The Wikipedia UFO page will give you a good place to start on the changing nature of UFO encounters from the mid-1800s to present.
Unidentified flying object - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks, I'll check that out

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

A question prompted by another thread.

Does anyone know of any UFO sightings recorded before the 1940's? Because that's when it seems that reports started being made. Which would seem to point to UFOs indeed being weather phenomena and military experiments.

UFO observations were made in ancient times and are recorded in the Holy Bible as the Word of God.

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." -- II Kings 2:11

"Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?" -- Isaiah 60:8

"And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man." -- Ezekial 1:4-5

"And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone. And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel. When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went." -- Ezekial 10:9-11

"Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits." -- Zechariah 5:1-2

"... who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind...." -- Psalm 104:3

 

[Wirraway]

UFO observations were made in ancient times and are recorded in the Holy Bible as the Word of God....:

are those Space Aliens?

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

are those Space Aliens?

Yes. Correct.

Heaven means outerspace. Consult the ultimate authority, namely Webster defintion number 1.

Heaven - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1 : the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome

Furthermore, the Lord Jesus himself claimed to be an extraterrestrial.

"... ye are of this world; I am not of this world." -- Jesus Christ, extraterrestrial, John 8:23

"My kingdom is not of this world...." -- Jesus Christ, extraterrestrial, John 18:36

 

[Wirraway]

Yes. Correct.

Heaven means outerspace. Consult the ultimate authority, namely Webster defintion number 1.

Heaven - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



Furthermore, the Lord Jesus himself claimed to be an extraterrestrial.

"... ye are of this world; I am not of this world." -- Jesus Christ, extraterrestrial, John 8:23

"My kingdom is not of this world...." -- Jesus Christ, extraterrestrial, John 18:36

could be Swamp Gas, or a scratched lens.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

could be Swamp Gas, or a scratched lens.

ROFL...

As Dan Aykroyd observes, swamp gas is not invisible and does not appear on the infrared spectrum.

"I don't know whether swamp gas is not visible to the naked eye and visible on infrared, whether it comes in small balls, whether it is capable of doing a complete circuit around an aircraft and then taking off at right angles into the sky. If it is, then maybe it was swamp gas." -- Dan Aykroyd, actor, 2005

YouTube - Ancient UFO Paintings