Typical Israeli attrocity

[HisdaughterJen]

You are trying to characterize a conflict of the "Good Christian and Jew" against "evil Islam". It is somewhat interesting that Islamic countries in the past were more tolerant of Jews than Chritiandom. and so it was at a time Islam/Jew against Christian or so called. My view is different. I see Zionist zealots, Crusaders and Jihadis on one side and Christ on the other.

Romans 12
What I read is not really relavent is it? If you flippently discard the facts I present again I will need to put you on the ignore list and my apologies for having to do this but I cannot spent time essentially discussing what you think absent any fact.

As to communism that was yet another round of labor Zionism against the pro-exile Jewish conservatives among other things. Jew against Jew.

Edit: I will dump that reference
for this

http://www.whale.to/b/communism_q.html

No, please don't misunderstand me...I'm not trying to flippantly disregard anything historically documented.

My point is that I do not see the value in bringing up atrocity after atrocity that men have committed against one another. It could go all the way back to Cain and Abel. To try to figure out who started it is useless, imho.

To lay blame for the behavior of another at the feet of someone other than the person who commits the behavior is not right either.

It's like saying a rape victim deserves rape because she dressed provocatively. The rapist is responsible for his own behavior.

I do not think that any one nation is righteous or holy. All men are evil. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

We didn't force Islam into cutting off people's heads or flying planes into towers. That was their idea in their seeking to please their god.
The Jews are not responsible for the Nazi concentration camps, Hitler is. It was his order and his action.

If communism is Jew against Jew, what was it in Vietnam, China, Korea? It's an ideology of oppression and satanic in origin.

 

[gwynedd1]

No, please don't misunderstand me...I'm not trying to flippantly disregard anything historically documented.

My point is that I do not see the value in bringing up atrocity after atrocity that men have committed against one another. It could go all the way back to Cain and Abel. To try to figure out who started it is useless, imho.

To lay blame for the behavior of another at the feet of someone other than the person who commits the behavior is not right either.

It's like saying a rape victim deserves rape because she dressed provocatively. The rapist is responsible for his own behavior.

I do not think that any one nation is righteous or holy. All men are evil. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

We didn't force Islam into cutting off people's heads or flying planes into towers. That was their idea in their seeking to please their god.
The Jews are not responsible for the Nazi concentration camps, Hitler is. It was his order and his action.

If communism is Jew against Jew, what was it in Vietnam, China, Korea? It's an ideology of oppression and satanic in origin.

Communism was not only Jew against Jew but they were on both sides and, quite significantly, the Bolshevik leadership largely aetheist/Jewish . However plently of Russians went along with the madness that swept the country. Then we end up with Stalin who ends up killing masses of people and much of the Bolshevik leaders who, as I stated, were Jewish. So this little society that Schiff started was devastating to Russian Jews as well. It was however helpful to Zionism as all Jewish persecution is.
So even at that level there is no faction or group to join other than Christ. All else is folly as the inhumanity and endless violence puts on display. Jesus does not rule Israel nor is there any commision for us to fight for it. To deny the West's role in the state of the world and to demonize Islam for the purpose of war is more of the same and has and will continue to cause death. As to those like Schiff or Rockefeller who provide the funding.


http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=WorldCh02#Rock

Rev 18
23: and the light of a lamp shall shine in thee no more; and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall be heard in thee no more; for thy merchants were the great men of the earth, and all nations were deceived by thy sorcery.
24: And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Communism was not only Jew against Jew but they were on both sides and, quite significantly, the Bolshevik leadership largely aetheist/Jewish . However plently of Russians went along with the madness that swept the country. Then we end up with Stalin who ends up killing masses of people and much of the Bolshevik leaders who, as I stated, were Jewish. So this little society that Schiff started was devastating to Russian Jews as well. It was however helpful to Zionism as all Jewish persecution is.
So even at that level there is no faction or group to join other than Christ. All else is folly as the inhumanity and endless violence puts on display. Jesus does not rule Israel nor is there any commision for us to fight for it. To deny the West's role in the state of the world and to demonize Islam for the purpose of war is more of the same and has and will continue to cause death. As to those like Schiff or Rockefeller who provide the funding.


http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=WorldCh02#Rock

The West does have a role in the state of the world today...I don't deny that. As I said before, all men are evil. There is no righteous or holy nation on the planet. There never has been.

Even when God led Israel in the days of Joshua, Moses, etc., they weren't a perfect nation (perfect meaning sinless). They gave sacrifices as atonement but God still led them most of the time. That includes into battle, by the way...against Canaanites, Philistines, etc.

In the same way, Israel today is an imperfect nation. Does that mean that God is not going to have His way and fulfill His prophecies? He said he'd regather them and revive them and then restore them.

Yes, every nation is evil...including Israel and everyone else because it's run by imperfect, fallen men.

Should God, then, just ignore His promises to the nation of Israel that He gave while they were imperfect/are imperfect or allow His will to come to pass?

His perfect Will (prophecies and promises) will come to pass even though Israel doesn't yet understand. This Israel is the Israel of those prophecies because it's the same people back in the same land.

Should we expect a more perfect Jewish nation to come along to fulfill those promises/prophecies? NO...there will not be a perfect nation until it's people are sinless.

You said, "Jesus does not rule Israel...". The point is that He WILL. It's prophecied to happen. They and we will be one family..."his purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two..."Ephesians 2

 

[gwynedd1]

The West does have a role in the state of the world today...I don't deny that. As I said before, all men are evil. There is no righteous or holy nation on the planet. There never has been.

Even when God led Israel in the days of Joshua, Moses, etc., they weren't a perfect nation (perfect meaning sinless). They gave sacrifices as atonement but God still led them most of the time. That includes into battle, by the way...against Canaanites, Philistines, etc.

When they followed the law they were justified and were a holy people as they were called. Today Christ justifies any of us who claim it. You seem to think that people are all the same if they accept Christ or not. Why did you not read where I said essentially there is Christ and the rest of the world?

1 Corithians 3
18: Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour.
19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us.
Acts 11
1: Now the apostles and the brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
2: So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcision party criticized him,
3: saying, "Why did you go to uncircumcised men and eat with them?"
4: But Peter began and explained to them in order:
5: "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, something descending, like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came down to me.
6: Looking at it closely I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air.
7: And I heard a voice saying to me, `Rise, Peter; kill and eat.'
8: But I said, `No, Lord; for nothing common or unclean has ever entered my mouth.'
9: But the voice answered a second time from heaven, `What God has cleansed you must not call common.'
10: This happened three times, and all was drawn up again into heaven.

In the same way, Israel today is an imperfect nation. Does that mean that God is not going to have His way and fulfill His prophecies? He said he'd regather them and revive them and then restore them.

It also said the Gentiles would seek the Messiah. Did that make the Gentiles of the day holy? Why this complete misunderstanding? The promise is to generations to come. God promised that a furture generation of Jacob/Israel, not the state of Israel, will serve him. Does someone who does not accept Jesus serve God?

Yes, every nation is evil...including Israel and everyone else because it's run by imperfect, fallen men.

Should God, then, just ignore His promises to the nation of Israel that He gave while they were imperfect/are imperfect or allow His will to come to pass?

His perfect Will (prophecies and promises) will come to pass even though Israel doesn't yet understand. This Israel is the Israel of those prophecies because it's the same people back in the same land.

Should we expect a more perfect Jewish nation to come along to fulfill those promises/prophecies? NO...there will not be a perfect nation until it's people are sinless.

You said, "Jesus does not rule Israel...". The point is that He WILL. It's prophecied to happen. They and we will be one family..."his purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two..."Ephesians 2

Anyone who accepts Christ is holy today. It is as if you say a criminal is justified because his grand child will be innocent. You are consumed with a point of view that is not fruitful.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

When they followed the law they were justified and were a holy people as they were called. Today Christ justifies any of us who claim it. You seem to think that people are all the same if they accept Christ or not. Why did you not read where I said essentially there is Christ and the rest of the world?




It also said the Gentiles would seek the Messiah. Did that make the Gentiles of the day holy? Why this complete misunderstanding? The promise is to generations to come. God promised that a furture generation of Jacob/Israel, not the state of Israel, will serve him. Does someone who does not accept Jesus serve God?


Anyone who accepts Christ is holy today. It is as if you say a criminal is justified because his grand child will be innocent. You are consumed with a point of view that is not fruitful.

I think you and I agree more than you think...we just are saying it differently.

Yes, we are redeemed and sanctified by Christ. We are His body and set apart. We are not of the world.

Now, it is clear from scripture that Israel has been "hardened in part until the full number of gentiles has come in" Romans 11 We are talking about the people, not necessarily the nation, even though the people make up the nation (or maybe I should say the true people among the current people make up the true nation of the current nation).

End times prophecies center around a people, Israel, the land of Israel and Jerusalem. There are people (Jewish) who are being brought back to the land (Israel) that will be among the people (Israel) that "mourn for the one they pierced" (Zachariah 12-14) and see "Jerusalem secure" in the near future.

Do the current leaders of Israel believe in God and strive to lead their country to please Him. I'd say that's a no.

Big things are on the horizon prophetically that are going to bring up a people (Israel) out of that nation (Israel) who will strive to lead their country to please God.

God said he would "settle them in their own land." Ezekiel 37
Once settled in their own land, do you think God wants them to give it away again or have it taken from them? I'd say that's a "no".

Christians know that there is a people among national Israel who will know Christ. We know that the land belongs to them and they have been resettled there as was predicted in Ezekiel 37.

Those who try to take it from them are going against God's stated will. That's mainly where the support for Israel is at the moment in regards to a Christian's viewpoint. Israel is back (a part of which is true Israel) in their own God-given land as was prophecied and they should hold onto it.

 

[Lightcreated]

As a christian I'm on Israel's side. I'm sure there are sides to this story the press won't tell us.
As a christian I feel bad for the innocent people that have suffered because of this war.
As a christian I understand that no one is perfect, not even the chosen people.

Ummm.. you my friend need to go and read your bible more carefully because when GOD speak's of His chosen people He is speaking of all the true believers that He has planed to save during the course of this world's existence.As a matter of fact most people of the jewish natiality do not and will not accept Jesus as their Lord and savior or their GOD.We are in the FINAL TRIBULATION people! this is it the final strech of this world's existence this is the time when He separating the wheats from the tare's this is the time when he savin that great multitude.This is the final tribulation, now that we are at the time of the end, read your bible more carefully old and new testament.IT's HERE!!

 

[gwynedd1]

I think you and I agree more than you think...we just are saying it differently.

I think the confusion is over the particular entities and time and place. Do I think that Jacob will find Christ? Sure I do because Paul says so. Even today we have some messianics. However they are, for the most part, blind now and probably a prime target of Satan. If you were Satan would you not take pleasure in highjacking Jacob? This makes them dangerous to us today because they are decieved and in the highest places they are terribly lost. We just need to be vigilant.

Yes, we are redeemed and sanctified by Christ. We are His body and set apart. We are not of the world.

Now, it is clear from scripture that Israel has been "hardened in part until the full number of gentiles has come in" Romans 11 We are talking about the people, not necessarily the nation, even though the people make up the nation (or maybe I should say the true people among the current people make up the true nation of the current nation).

The state of Israel has people other than Jews in it quite literally. In addition only 1/3 would be spared if Zecharia 12-14 will come to pass so even if it were near we are really not dealing with the six pointed star state.

End times prophecies center around a people, Israel, the land of Israel and Jerusalem. There are people (Jewish) who are being brought back to the land (Israel) that will be among the people (Israel) that "mourn for the one they pierced" (Zachariah 12-14) and see "Jerusalem secure" in the near future.

That could happen but for now they are enemies of the Gospel. The ACLU for example is influenced by Judaism. That is the force behind the anti-Christian culture. That is easy to prove. The 10 Commandments are a problem because that is for Jews. Gentiles are to follow the 7 Noahide laws mentioned in the Talmud.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/7laws.html

Notice there is not a peep? That is good Talmudic Judaism. The 10 Commandments is offensive to Judasim to apply to Gentiles. Now I also think that their are aethiest Jews who would have none of it but they would be rather divided in such as case.

Do the current leaders of Israel believe in God and strive to lead their country to please Him. I'd say that's a no.

Big things are on the horizon prophetically that are going to bring up a people (Israel) out of that nation (Israel) who will strive to lead their country to please God.

God said he would "settle them in their own land." Ezekiel 37
Once settled in their own land, do you think God wants them to give it away again or have it taken from them? I'd say that's a "no".

Christians know that there is a people among national Israel who will know Christ. We know that the land belongs to them and they have been resettled there as was predicted in Ezekiel 37.

Those who try to take it from them are going against God's stated will. That's mainly where the support for Israel is at the moment in regards to a Christian's viewpoint. Israel is back (a part of which is true Israel) in their own God-given land as was prophecied and they should hold onto it.

I think that will happen but the state of Israel counterfiet shell around them is not God's IMHO. Its foundation is far too dark. However in general we agree on Jacob still having a great value to God and probably will dwell in the land. What drives me nuts is when "Christians" blatantly defy Christ's principles for the sake of so called Israel.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I think the confusion is over the particular entities and time and place. Do I think that Jacob will find Christ? Sure I do because Paul says so. Even today we have some messianics. However they are, for the most part, blind now and probably a prime target of Satan. If you were Satan would you not take pleasure in highjacking Jacob? This makes them dangerous to us today because they are decieved and in the highest places they are terribly lost. We just need to be vigilant.


The state of Israel has people other than Jews in it quite literally. In addition only 1/3 would be spared if Zecharia 12-14 will come to pass so even if it were near we are really not dealing with the six pointed star state.


That could happen but for now they are enemies of the Gospel. The ACLU for example is influenced by Judaism. That is the force behind the anti-Christian culture. That is easy to prove. The 10 Commandments are a problem because that is for Jews. Gentiles are to follow the 7 Noahide laws mentioned in the Talmud.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/7laws.html

Notice there is not a peep? That is good Talmudic Judaism. The 10 Commandments is offensive to Judasim to apply to Gentiles. Now I also think that their are aethiest Jews who would have none of it but they would be rather divided in such as case.


I think that will happen but the state of Israel counterfiet shell around them is not God's IMHO. Its foundation is far too dark. However in general we agree on Jacob still having a great value to God and probably will dwell in the land. What drives me nuts is when "Christians" blatantly defy Christ's principles for the sake of so called Israel.

NOW I understand and we are pretty much in agreement on these points!
Regarding 10 Commandments thing you mentioned...Romans 10:11-"...salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious." more fulfilled prophecy!

 

[MezzaMorta]

Israel is a terrorist nation, what do you expect. They were created out of terrorism, expanded though terrorism and maintain to this date though terrorism.

Expecting morality from Israel is like expecting Elvis to walk by.