Tyndale and defying the Pope

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
Lazarus was also sought by and under sentence of death by the Chief Priests.
Conincidentaly, he is mentioned in Luke 16 in the parable of the richman and lazarus, the only person, other than Jesus, to be ressurected after being dead 3 days

John 12:10 Counsel yet the Chief-Priests that also the Lazarus they may be killing.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Lazarus and the rich man

I just read this in my Bible. I have GOT to delve into the book of John. Goodgoogaloogamooga!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 15, 2011

brinny said:
I just read this in my Bible. I have GOT to delve into the book of John. Goodgoogaloogamooga!

I am sure my bro W. Tyndale "plowed" thru the Scriptures and why I like the statement he made below

NKJV) Luke 9:62 But Jesus said to him, "No one having put his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

NKJV) 1 Corinthians 9:10 Or does He say [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.

A clergyman hopelessly entrenched in Roman Catholic dogma once taunted Tyndale with the statement, "We are better to be without God’s laws than the Pope’s".
Tyndale was infuriated by such Roman Catholic heresies, and he replied, "I defy the Pope and all his laws. If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!"
"If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!""

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
I believe that is the greatest miracle/wonder performed by Jesus in the NT

http://www.christianforums.com/t7461118/#post54553876
Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

John 11:39 Jesus is saying "take away ye! the stone".
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Reve 11:12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "Ascend ye here!".
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and observed them, the enemies of them.

Amen, i did not know Lazarus was out there spreading the gospel...awesome!!!

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 15, 2011

brinny said:
Amen, i did not know Lazarus was out there spreading the gospel...awesome!!!

Lazarus being ressurected was the biggest testimony he could give, as Jesus Himself was later to raise on the 3rd day.
The corrupt Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, tho the Pharisees did. None of them wanted to accept Jesus as the Messiah/Savior promised to Israel and Mankind

Acts 23:8 For Sadducees indeed are saying no to be a resurrection nor messenger nor spirit, Pharisees yet are avowing the both.

Young) Matthew 16:21 From that time began Jesus to shew to his disciples that it is necessary for him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be put to death, and the third day to rise.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=3974
　
Being closely associated with the Temple, the Sadducees disappeared from history when the Temple was destroyed in 70.

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
Lazarus being ressurected was the biggest testimony he could give as Jesus was later to raise on the 3rd day.
The corrupt Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, tho the Pharisees did. None of them wanted to accept Jesus as the Messiah/Savior promised to Israel and Mankind

Acts 23:8 For Sadducees indeed are saying no to be a resurrection nor messenger nor spirit, Pharisees yet are avowing the both.

Young) Matthew 16:21 From that time began Jesus to shew to his disciples that it is necessary for him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be put to death, and the third day to rise.

just how mixed up WERE the Sadducees? They didn't understand any of what God spoke of in the Old Testament. It is written there about resurrection. Why didn't they believe it, and why would they allign themselves with a God they had no respect for, and in fact, insulted by doubting Him?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 15, 2011

brinny said:
just how mixed up WERE the Sadducees? They didn't understand any of what God spoke of in the Old Testament. It is written there about resurrection. Why didn't they believe it, and why would they allign themselves with a God they had no respect for, and in fact, insulted by doubting Him?

Perhaps we can discuss that on this thread brin

http://www.christianforums.com/t7454770/
Why did Sadducees not believe in Resurrection? Acts 23:8

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
Lazarus being ressurected was the biggest testimony he could give, as Jesus Himself was later to raise on the 3rd day.
The corrupt Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, tho the Pharisees did. None of them wanted to accept Jesus as the Messiah/Savior promised to Israel and Mankind

Acts 23:8 For Sadducees indeed are saying no to be a resurrection nor messenger nor spirit, Pharisees yet are avowing the both.

Young) Matthew 16:21 From that time began Jesus to shew to his disciples that it is necessary for him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders, and chief priests, and scribes, and to be put to death, and the third day to rise.

The Sadducees | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site
　
Being closely associated with the Temple, the Sadducees disappeared from history when the Temple was destroyed in 70.

Amen!! I just read where people were coming from ev'rywhere to see Lazarus, who Jesus raised from the dead. It gives some insight into why Jesus tarried in responding after Lazarus died. Whoa! Delving in the Bible is like digging up treasures, one after the other. May God bless yer socks off for your diligence in studying and sharing His Word, amigo.

Thekla · Oct 15, 2011

I always feel compelled to mention, when discussing Lazarus, that he fled to Cyprus where he became the bishop of what is now Larnaca. His second tomb is still there and reads, "Lazaros, friend of Jesus"

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 15, 2011

Thekla said:
I always feel compelled to mention, when discussing Lazarus, that he fled to Cyprus where he became the bishop of what is now Larnaca. His second tomb is still there and reads, "Lazaros, friend of Jesus"

Very interesting. I had never heard of that before

Young) Luke 16:20 and there was a certain poor man, by name Lazarus, who was laid at his porch, full of sores,
22 `And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham--
and the rich man also died, and was buried;

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave?

It is strenuously denied by most evangelists that this story, as told by Christ, could be a parable. They hold that this is not a parable because it starts out in narrative form. It is argued, because it reads, "there was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day," that Christ is speaking here of an actual incident that took place.
But in the parable of the prodigal son, in the fifteenth chapter of Luke, the narrative introduction is found also, for it says, "A certain man had two sons..." Yet it is generally conceded that the story of the prodigal son is a parable and all the fundamentalist preachers love to preach from its beautiful figures, thus applying it as a parable.

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

Thekla said:
I always feel compelled to mention, when discussing Lazarus, that he fled to Cyprus where he became the bishop of what is now Larnaca. His second tomb is still there and reads, "Lazaros, friend of Jesus"

That is AWESOME!!! I did not know that!! I am learning sooo much from this thread....what a gem of information this is, Thekla!! God bless you!

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

Seems like Tyndale was placed in that place in time, (born into it) "for such a time as this"

Jere209 · Oct 15, 2011

Thekla said:
I always feel compelled to mention, when discussing Lazarus, that he fled to Cyprus where he became the bishop of what is now Larnaca. His second tomb is still there and reads, "Lazaros, friend of Jesus"

interesting.. I have never heard this before..Where did you find this info?

Thekla · Oct 15, 2011

Jere209 said:
interesting.. I have never heard this before..Where did you find this info?

It's been not forgotten, if you will, but has been remembered in the EO Church (which includes Cyprus).

IIRC, there is an article on Wikipedia; I think there are some photographs there.

Jere209 · Oct 15, 2011

brinny said:
just how mixed up WERE the Sadducees? They didn't understand any of what God spoke of in the Old Testament. It is written there about resurrection. Why didn't they believe it, and why would they allign themselves with a God they had no respect for, and in fact, insulted by doubting Him?

In order to understand the Sadducees, one must try to understand what was happening to them. Here was this group of people, along with the Pharisees, and the Essenes sect, and they were devout men and women of God. They absolutely believed in God, and closely followed the Torah, and followed the teachings of the OT..
Now you have a group of people, the Christians, that were coming in and telling them they were wrong, and this other way was the right way. That's how I think "The Way" was born..

The Pharisees were the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism, and they believed strongly in the Law of Moses, and the Torah. The Torah is like the Constitution to us today. The laws in it were open to interpretation. They believed only Moses had true knowledge of them. They believed in an afterlife, and that God did reward the righteous and punish the wicked. They also believed a messiah would come eventually. They prayed in the synagogue and also individually.
On the other hand, you have the Sadducees. These guys were more liberal in their views, they wanted a literal interpretation of the Law, and did not believe in an afterlife, since it did not mention it in the Torah, and the focus of their life was around the temple rituals.

Then you have the Essenes, brought about from dissatisfaction for the other two groups. The lived in the desert, and was celibate.

So, you see, they were not really mixed up, but rather more of a devout group of people that were convinced they were doing God's work. And they were, but they also were just not open to the possibility that Jesus was already in their midst..
This is just a nutshell view of what they were all about. Did not want to take up to much room here..

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

Jere209 said:
In order to understand the Sadducees, one must try to understand what was happening to them. Here was this group of people, along with the Pharisees, and the Essenes sect, and they were devout men and women of God. They absolutely believed in God, and closely followed the Torah, and followed the teachings of the OT..
Now you have a group of people, the Christians, that were coming in and telling them they were wrong, and this other way was the right way. That's how I think "The Way" was born..

The Pharisees were the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism, and they believed strongly in the Law of Moses, and the Torah. The Torah is like the Constitution to us today. The laws in it were open to interpretation. They believed only Moses had true knowledge of them. They believed in an afterlife, and that God did reward the righteous and punish the wicked. They also believed a messiah would come eventually. They prayed in the synagogue and also individually.
On the other hand, you have the Sadducees. These guys were more liberal in their views, they wanted a literal interpretation of the Law, and did not believe in an afterlife, since it did not mention it in the Torah, and the focus of their life was around the temple rituals.

Then you have the Essenes, brought about from dissatisfaction for the other two groups. The lived in the desert, and was celibate.

So, you see, they were not really mixed up, but rather more of a devout group of people that were convinced they were doing God's work. And they were, but they also were just not open to the possibility that Jesus was already in their midst..
This is just a nutshell view of what they were all about. Did not want to take up to much room here..

Yet they knew not God for if they did, they would know His heart, for there it is, written in His Word repeatedly what constituted His heart. However there WERE those who did HEAR (who had ears to hear)...some of which God called the "apple of His eye" and others written in history as those who did as it says in Micah, "walked with God".

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

Jere209 · Oct 15, 2011

brinny said:
Yet they knew not God for if they did, they would know His heart, for there it is, written in His Word repeatedly what constituted His heart. However there WERE those who did HEAR (who had ears to hear)...some of which God called the "apple of His eye" and others written in history as those who did as it says in Micah, "walked with God".

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

No, they heard God.. What they did not hear was the voice of Jesus
You have to remember these are hard core groups of the old ways, and knew a messiah would come someday, but none expected it would be an ordinary man..

brinny · Oct 15, 2011

Jere209 said:
No, they heard God.. What they did not hear was the voice of Jesus
You have to remember these are hard core groups of the old ways, and knew a messiah would come someday, but none expected it would be an ordinary man..

Isaiah nearly shouts it. Those who had ears to heard "heard" Jesus. They "knew" He was fulfilling what was spoken of in Isaiah.

However i will not belabor it. Peace, luv. (((hug)))

ebia · Oct 16, 2011

brinny said:
just how mixed up WERE the Sadducees? They didn't understand any of what God spoke of in the Old Testament. It is written there about resurrection.

barely, if at all

Why didn't they believe it,

because
a. It's doubtful if the OT does talk about resurrection directly except maybe Daniel 12. Only in the inter-testimental literature does resurrection emerge as any sort of clear concept.
b. Their canon was pretty much just the Torah, and the very late books like Daniel were particularly suspect in their view.
c. People who believe in resurrection are not afraid to die for the cause. Resurrection breed revolutionary zealots. This is not a good thing if your vested interest is in the status quo.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Thekla

I always feel compelled to mention, when discussing Lazarus, that he fled to Cyprus where he became the bishop of what is now Larnaca. His second tomb is still there and reads, "Lazaros, friend of Jesus"

Jere209 said:
interesting.. I have never heard this before..Where did you find this info?

Thekla said:
It's been not forgotten, if you will, but has been remembered in the EO Church (which includes Cyprus).

IIRC, there is an article on Wikipedia; I think there are some photographs there.

Thank you Thekla.
I found this if any are interested

Keith Hunt - Search for the Apostles - Lazarus - Page Twenty-one

On the island of Cyprus there is a very firm and ancient
tradition that Lazarus fled from Jerusalem about the year 60 A.D.
It would seem that this is an unnecessarily late date
although we have little more than tradition to go on in
determining it.
A pamphlet published by The Church of St.Lazarus in Larnaca,
Cyprus, written by A.Patsides, records the local tradition:

"We do not know the names of his parents, because the Holy
Scriptures mention nothing on this point. The only thing we know
from them is that Lazarus had two sisters, Martha and Mary. Our
Lord visited many times their home in Bethany and it is known
that true friendship existed between him and his family. The
feelings of Christ towards Lazarus are described in the Gospel of
John, where we learn that, when our Lord was informed about his
illness and the death of his friend, He hastened to Bethany and
raised Lazarus from death, giving by this action joy to the
unfortunate sisters, who received such a severe blow by the death
of their brother.

"On account of this incident the Jews searched for Lazarus in
order to kill him, because many people believed in Christ.
Lazarus, to avoid their revenge, was compelled to visit Cyprus
and Citiurn about 60 or 63 A.D., according to an old tradition,
which can be relied upon.
"In Citium, Lazarus became the spiritual leader of the town,
where he was bishop for thirty years. According to the same
tradition Lazarus died in Citium, where his tomb is preserved up
to the present day....................................

http://www.christianforums.com/t7538871/
Luke 16:24 why is the rich man calling out to Father Abraham?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 17, 2011

ebia said:
barely, if at all

because
a. It's doubtful if the OT does talk about resurrection directly except maybe Daniel 12. Only in the inter-testimental literature does resurrection emerge as any sort of clear concept.
b. Their canon was pretty much just the Torah, and the very late books like Daniel were particularly suspect in their view.
c. People who believe in resurrection are not afraid to die for the cause. Resurrection breed revolutionary zealots. This is not a good thing if your vested interest is in the status quo.

What about Isaiah 26:19, which I posted on this thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7454770/#post58775310
Why did Sadducees not believe in Resurrection? Acts 23:8

Tyndale and defying the Pope

Tyndale vs Roman Catholicism

Tyndale was right in rejecting Roman Catholicism

Tyndale was wrong in rejecting Roman Catholicism

Tyndale was a heretic

Who the heck was Tyndale?

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