Two Torahs

[JohnD70X7]

The Apostle Paul clues us in on a subtle distinction made in the Tanakh:

1 Corinthians 9:19–21 (NASB95)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

1. I am free from all men
2. I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
3. To the Jews (those who are under the Law) I became as a Jew (as under the Law though not being myself under the Law), so that I might win Jews so that I might win those who are under the Law;
4. to Gentiles (those who are without law), as without law, though not being without the law of God specifically under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Clearly there are two Laws (Torahs) referred to here.

• Torah Moshe (the Law of Moses)
• Torah Moshiakh (the Law of God)

The Law of Moses was given to Moses by God as a precursor to God's Law. Note the contrast:

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (NASB95)
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Torah Moshe convicts all of sin. Until the cross of Yeshua, it provided a temporal atonement with ritualistic sacrifice.
Torah Moshiakh provides eternal forgiveness for all sin.

Torah Moshe had to be sought, taught, and applied.
Torah Moshiakh is placed into the heart and sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Torah Moshiakh reveals who YHVH is.

Matthew 11:27 (NASB95)
27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Yeshua is YHVH (John 8:58 / Exodus 3:14-15 / Isaiah 44:24 - Nehemiah 9:6 / John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16). Who was with the Father in the beginning (1 John 1:1-2). And no one knew that until Yeshua came into the world.

 

[daq]

Torah of Elohim is found in Yhoshua 24:26, Neh 8:8, Neh 8:18, and Neh 10:28, (as well as in the Greek N/T in Rom 7:22, Rom 7:25, and Rom 8:7).

 

[JohnD70X7]

Torah of Elohim is found in Yhoshua 24:26, Neh 8:8, Neh 8:18, and Neh 10:28, (as well as in the Greek N/T in Rom 7:22, Rom 7:25, and Rom 8:7).

Law of Moses = Law from God part A [the baptism of fire]

Law of Christ = Law of God part B [the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which fulfills part A through the imputed righteousness of Christ]

There's messiah and then there's Messiah...

 

[daq]

Law of Moses = Law from God part A [the baptism of fire]

Law of Christ = Law of God part B [the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which fulfills part A through the imputed righteousness of Christ]

There's messiah and then there's Messiah...

If torah primarily means instruction then what is the difference between Instruction from Elohim and Instruction of Elohim? Moreover, if I read nomos in the same manner as torah is variously employed, and I believe Paul does indeed use nomos that way, it is highly doubtful that "Law of Christ" actually means what most imagine it to mean.

 

[JohnD70X7]

If torah primarily means instruction then what is the difference between Instruction from Elohim and Instruction of Elohim? Moreover, if I read nomos in the same manner as torah is variously employed, and I believe Paul does indeed use nomos that way, it is highly doubtful that "Law of Christ" actually means what most imagine it to mean.

There is highly unlikely to our way of thinking, then there's what the Holy Spirit put into the hearts of those who wrote the Bible.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:43-45 / Mark 7:7 / Mark 7:13

2 Peter 1:20-21 / 1 John 4:1 / Acts 17:11 / Proverbs 25:2 / Isaiah 28:9-13

 

[JohnD70X7]

One thing that Jeremiah made absolutely clear was that the New Covenant would not be like the Old Covenant which was broken by the people.

Jeremiah 31:31–32 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Then it specifies the differences.

Jeremiah 31:33–34 (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. I will put MY law in their hearts
2. I will be their God they shall be my people *
3. They will know who the LORD really is
4. I will forgive all of their sins once and for all for ever

Torah (the old covenant at Sinai) accomplished none of these things.

Torah Moshe was ground breaking for Torah Moshiakh in that:

1. it established what good and bad are
2. it convicts the world of sin
3. temporarily, prophetically symbolized the remedy for sin (sacrifice)
4. conditionally made the people God's people so long as they were in obedient to his will

*
Galatians 3:21–29 (KJV)
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 4:21–31 (KJV)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[daq]

There is highly unlikely to our way of thinking, then there's what the Holy Spirit put into the hearts of those who wrote the Bible.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:43-45 / Mark 7:7 / Mark 7:13

2 Peter 1:20-21 / 1 John 4:1 / Acts 17:11 / Proverbs 25:2 / Isaiah 28:9-13

You've apparently conveniently ignored the evidence already presented.

Joshua 24:26 KJV
26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.

Nehemiah 8:6-7 KJV
6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.
7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Nehemiah 8:18 KJV
18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.

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תֹּרָה / תּוֹרָה
tôrâh
BDB Definition:
1) law, direction, instruction
1a) instruction, direction (human or divine)
1a1) body of prophetic teaching
1a2) instruction in Messianic age
1a3) body of priestly direction or instruction
1a4) body of legal directives
1b) law
1b1) law of the burnt offering
1b2) of special law, codes of law
1c) custom, manner
1d) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3384

Torah is instruction, direction, teaching, and Paul uses nomos in the same manner, in various applications throughout his writings which must be understood by the context wherein it is employed.

Romans 8:2
2 ο γαρ νομος του πνευματος της ζωης εν Χ̅Ρ Ι̅H ηλευθερωσε με απο του νομου της αμαρτιας και του θανατου

2 for the torah-nomos-instruction of the Spirit of the Life in Χ̅Ρ Ι̅H has delivered me from the torah-nomos-instruction of the sin [or of the sin offering] and of death

The Spirit of the Life in Meshiah is expounding the correct interpretation and understanding of the Torah throughout the Testimony-Instruction of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts. It isn't a different Torah: it is the correct understanding of the Torah, and this is precisely what was supposed to come to pass with the arrival and advent of the Meshiah. Everyone who was awaiting the arrival of the Meshiah in the first century was expecting this very thing to come to pass, (Judaism to this day still believes this is what Meshiah will do when he comes). Matthew 5 is an entire passage which verifies that this is exactly what Meshiah is doing in his Testimony, Instruction, and discourses.

The Torah is spiritual, (Romans 7:14a).

 

[Soyeong]

The Apostle Paul clues us in on a subtle distinction made in the Tanakh:

1 Corinthians 9:19–21 (NASB95)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

1. I am free from all men
2. I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
3. To the Jews (those who are under the Law) I became as a Jew (as under the Law though not being myself under the Law), so that I might win Jews so that I might win those who are under the Law;
4. to Gentiles (those who are without law), as without law, though not being without the law of God specifically under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Clearly there are two Laws (Torahs) referred to here.

• Torah Moshe (the Law of Moses)
• Torah Moshiakh (the Law of God)

The Law of Moses was given to Moses by God as a precursor to God's Law. Note the contrast:

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (NASB95)
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Torah Moshe convicts all of sin. Until the cross of Yeshua, it provided a temporal atonement with ritualistic sacrifice.
Torah Moshiakh provides eternal forgiveness for all sin.

Torah Moshe had to be sought, taught, and applied.
Torah Moshiakh is placed into the heart and sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Torah Moshiakh reveals who YHVH is.

Matthew 11:27 (NASB95)
27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Yeshua is YHVH (John 8:58 / Exodus 3:14-15 / Isaiah 44:24 - Nehemiah 9:6 / John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16). Who was with the Father in the beginning (1 John 1:1-2). And no one knew that until Yeshua came into the world.

The Torah of Moses is referred to as the Torah of God in a number of places like:

Nehemiah 8:1-8 And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the Water Gate. And they told Ezra the scribe to bring the Book of the Law of Moses that the Lord had commanded Israel. 2 So Ezra the priest brought the Law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could understand what they heard, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law. 4 And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden platform that they had made for the purpose. And beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah on his right hand, and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah, and Meshullam on his left hand. 5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people, and as he opened it all the people stood. 6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God, and all the people answered, “Amen, Amen,” lifting up their hands. And they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground. 7 Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodiah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, the Levites,[a] helped the people to understand the Law, while the people remained in their places. 8 They read from the book, from the Law of God, clearly,[b] and they gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading.

Ezra 7:6-12 this Ezra went up from Babylonia. He was a scribe skilled in the Law of Moses that the Lord, the God of Israel, had given, and the king granted him all that he asked, for the hand of the Lord his God was on him. 7 And there went up also to Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king, some of the people of Israel, and some of the priests and Levites, the singers and gatekeepers, and the temple servants. 8 And Ezra[a] came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king. 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylonia, and on the first day of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, for the good hand of his God was on him. 10 For Ezra had set his heart to study the Law of the Lord, and to do it and to teach his statutes and rules in Israel. 11 This is a copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, a man learned in matters of the commandments of the Lord and his statutes for Israel: 12 “Artaxerxes, king of kings, to Ezra the priest, the scribe of the Law of the God of heaven. Peace.[b] And now

Luke 2:22-23 And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”)

 

[Soyeong]

One thing that Jeremiah made absolutely clear was that the New Covenant would not be like the Old Covenant which was broken by the people.

Jeremiah 31:31–32 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Then it specifies the differences.

Jeremiah 31:33–34 (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. I will put MY law in their hearts
2. I will be their God they shall be my people *
3. They will know who the LORD really is
4. I will forgive all of their sins once and for all for ever

Torah (the old covenant at Sinai) accomplished none of these things.

Torah Moshe was ground breaking for Torah Moshiakh in that:

1. it established what good and bad are
2. it convicts the world of sin
3. temporarily, prophetically symbolized the remedy for sin (sacrifice)
4. conditionally made the people God's people so long as they were in obedient to his will

While it is true that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, the New Covent still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33), so that is not one of the ways that it is not like the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by a New Covenant is if that New Covenant does everything that the Mosaic Covenant does plus more, which is what it means to make it obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), so the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10), plus it is different in regard to being based on better promises and having a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6-7).

*

Galatians 3:21–29 (KJV)
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In Galatians 3:16-19, a newer covenant does not nullify the promises of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the promises of the Mosaic Covenant in regard to living in obedience to the Torah are not nullified by the New Covenant. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Torah leads us to Christ because it teaches us how to know him, not so that we can reject what he taught and go back to living in sin.

In Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being a child of God, through faith, in Christ, being a child of Abraham, and heirs to the promise is all directly connected to living in obedience to the Torah. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Torah are not children of God, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Torah, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, and in Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5, and Deuteronomy 30:16, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that.

Galatians 4:21–31 (KJV)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

If God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to the Torah, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, which undermines how you are trying to se Galatians 4:21-31. Furthermore, the Torah came through the line of the free woman, not the line of bondmaid.

 

[JohnD70X7]

the New Covent still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33),

Nope. HaShem said MY torah... under the heading of this new covenant NOT being like the old covenant (torah of moses)

 

[JohnD70X7]

You've apparently conveniently ignored the evidence already presented.

No, I answered this.

GOD'S LAW
PART A (LAW OF MOSES)
PART B (LAW OF CHRIST)

1 Corinthians 9:21 (KJV)
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Now, let's see who is doing the convenient ignoring!

 

[Soyeong]

Nope. HaShem said MY torah... under the heading of this new covenant NOT being like the old covenant (torah of moses)

God commanded the Torah of Mose, so it is His Torah.

 

[daq]

No, I answered this.

GOD'S LAW
PART A (LAW OF MOSES)
PART B (LAW OF CHRIST)

1 Corinthians 9:21 (KJV)
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Now, let's see who is doing the convenient ignoring!

I also already answered your rebuttal. Obviously we do not agree on the understanding of the passage you quoted. Perhaps you might explain what is meant by "under the law to Christ"? Moreover the more commonly accepted Greek morph texts, (N/A, W/H, etc.), do not read the same as the T/R, (KJV).

1 Corinthians 9:21 N/A-W/H
21 τοις ανομοις ως ανομος μη ων ανομος θεου αλλ εννομος χριστου ινα κερδανω τους ανομους
Greek Text Analysis

1 Corinthians 9:21 HRB2012
21 to those without the Torah as without instruction (not being without the Torah of Elohim, but under the instruction of Messiah), that I might gain those without the Torah.

Since I essentially read it in this manner I understand that I already answered your rebuttal previously.

 

[JohnD70X7]

God commanded the Torah of Mose, so it is His Torah.

Once again...

The Lord God gave BOTH Torahs (Torah Moshe and Torah Moshiakh). Jeremiah 31:31-34 was speaking specifically of the new covenant... the Torah of Messiah (1 Corinthians 9:21).

 

[JohnD70X7]

I also already answered your rebuttal. Obviously we do not agree on the understanding of the passage you quoted. Perhaps you might explain what is meant by "under the law to Christ"? Moreover the more commonly accepted Greek morph texts, (N/A, W/H, etc.), do not read the same as the T/R, (KJV).

1 Corinthians 9:21 N/A-W/H
21 τοις ανομοις ως ανομος μη ων ανομος θεου αλλ εννομος χριστου ινα κερδανω τους ανομους
Greek Text Analysis

1 Corinthians 9:21 HRB2012
21 to those without the Torah as without instruction (not being without the Torah of Elohim, but under the instruction of Messiah), that I might gain those without the Torah.

Since I essentially read it in this manner I understand that I already answered your rebuttal previously.

The New Covenant according to Jeremiah specifies it is NOT like the Old Covenant at Sinai (when Torah Moshe was given) but was going to be MY Covenant (Messiah's 1 Corinthians 9:21 Covenant) placed in the hearts of those in new covenant with him.

The contrast between the two (I say again) are:

1. eternal forgiveness
2. eternally God's people
3. knowing who YHVH actually is (Yeshua preincarnate)
4. having the Law of Christ in our hearts

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

• LORD will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah
• Not according to the covenant made with their fathers in the day he took them out of the land of Egypt
• which "my covenant" they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
• But!
• this shall be the covenant he will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
• He will put "my law" in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
• He will be their God, and they shall be "my people."
• And!
• they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: "for they shall all know me," from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
• for
• "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

1 Corinthians 9:21 (KJV)
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

You can argue all day long how you refuse to believe what scripture says. But your argument is with what scripture says.

 

[daq]

The New Covenant according to Jeremiah specifies it is NOT like the Old Covenant at Sinai (when Torah Moshe was given) but was going to be MY Covenant (Messiah's 1 Corinthians 9:21 Covenant) placed in the hearts of those in new covenant with him.

The contrast between the two (I say again) are:

1. eternal forgiveness
2. eternally God's people
3. knowing who YHVH actually is (Yeshua preincarnate)
4. having the Law of Christ in our hearts

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

• LORD will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah
• Not according to the covenant made with their fathers in the day he took them out of the land of Egypt
• which "my covenant" they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
• But!
• this shall be the covenant he will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
• He will put "my law" in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
• He will be their God, and they shall be "my people."
• And!
• they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: "for they shall all know me," from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
• for
• "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

1 Corinthians 9:21 (KJV)
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

You can argue all day long how you refuse to believe what scripture says. But your argument is with what scripture says.

The new-renewed covenant was renewed immediately after bnei Yisrael committed adultery by way of the golden calf incident and Mosheh broke the first tablets. However this was hidden in much cryptic language, and Mosheh left it for the Meshiah who was to come, to fully expound it when he came, (which of course he did in the Gospel accounts).

Deuteronomy 32:6 TS2009
6 “Do you do this to יהוה, O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, who bought you, Who created you and established you?

This is expounded by the same Prophet who writes of the renewed covenant you quote from.
Review chapter three: no more wifey, otherwise one cannot be placed among the sons.

 

[Studyman]

One thing that Jeremiah made absolutely clear was that the New Covenant would not be like the Old Covenant which was broken by the people.

Jeremiah 31:31–32 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

You are missing a very important biblical Fact here. God furthered Abraham's Covenant to Abraham's Children, Israel. ( Gen. 17:1,2, Ex. 2:24, 25 & Ex. 19:5,6) Abraham Isaac and Jacob (Israel) kept this Covenant, (Gen. 26:5) Israel didn't. (Ex. 32:1) This Covenant was broken, the tables of Stone shattered. God was going to wipe Israel out and make a nation out of Moses. There was no longer a Covenant between Israel and God at this time.

Moses had to go up a second time.

Ex. 32: 30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

It was this 2nd Covenant, the first Covenant God made with Israel alone, that God Addressed in Jeremiah. In this Covenant God "ADDED" provisions regarding how His Law would be received, and how Transgressions of His Law would be provided for. Provisions not included in God's covenant with Abraham or Israel in the day God Led them out of Egypt.

There was no instruction to bring a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it before sins could be forgiven, in the Covenant Gave to Abraham, and then to Abraham's Children, that the Children of Israel broke.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

Paul speaks to this "LAW" in Galatians 3. (It was "ADDED" because of Transgressions, Til the Seed should come)

So although not taught by many of this world's religions who come in Christ's name, the Scriptures are clear and the Hebrews author knew this truth in his recollection.

Heb. 8:9"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

So Biblical facts to understand.

#1. In Exodus 32, there was no Covenant with Israel, no Priesthood Covenant. Nothing!!! The Covenant that changed, was the Covenant Moses acquired the 2nd time he went up for 40 days and nights. It was after this that the Covenant God mentions in Jer. 31 was established, even the Priesthood covenant with Levi came after this event.

Mal. 2: 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

And when did this fear occur?

Ex. 32: 26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

When these truths are considered, popular religious philosophy regarding God's "New covenant" is brought into question. And rightly so.

I'll show you the difference it makes in another post.

 

[Studyman]

Then it specifies the differences.

Once we establish what covenant existed in Jeremiah's Time, then we can rightfully address the difference between the new and old.

Jeremiah 31:33–34 (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

So in the Old Covenant, how did God's People receive God's Laws? Were they not required to go find a Levite Priest, who was supposed to read God's Laws to them? The Hebrews author believed so.

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

So how do I know what God's Laws are? Did God not deliver His very Oracles into my own Home, into my own mind? Am I required to go find a Levite Priest somewhere to know God? No!! because I have the Law and Prophets, AKA, "The gospel of Christ" wherein the Righteousness of God, and the Wrath of God against all unrighteousness is revealed. All I need is belief, AKA, "Faith".

for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

In the Old Covenant, what was required before Sins were forgiven?

Lev. 4: 27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. 30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

But in the New Covenant, there is no mention of these sacrificial "Works of the Law" the Pharisees were still promoting, even after the Seed had come.

So given the Biblical Truth about what Covenant was addressed in Jer. 31, and how God Himself defined the change, it is clear. 2 Things were addressed in the Old Covenant, that changed in the New.

#1. The manner in which God's Laws are received? (No longer required to go find a Levite the read the book of the Law)

#2. The manner in which transgression of God's Laws are provided for. (No longer required to take a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it for the remission of sins.)

Both of these things were exclusive duties of the Levitical Priesthood who had corrupted itself, according to Scriptures.

It's right there in the Oracles of God, we can read it for ourselves. It is the "many" who come in Christ's Name, who preach a different gospel, that causes confusion and deception. This same Christ warns us of this very thing.

1. I will put MY law in their hearts
2. I will be their God they shall be my people *
3. They will know who the LORD really is
4. I will forgive all of their sins once and for all for ever

Torah (the old covenant at Sinai) accomplished none of these things.

That isn't exactly true. Caleb, Joshua are two examples of men who understood, believed and knew God. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise Men are a few who understood the Holy Scriptures and the coming prophesied New Priest of God. The gentile woman whose daughter Jesus healed, also heard about Him and believed long before Paul.

Had the Pharisees believed Moses and the Prophets, they too would have known the Christ when HE came.

Since we all have the Oracles of God in our own possession, we can fellowship with God, and His Son whom God sent, one on one.

Yes, there are "many" who come in Christ's Name, who are ignorant of God's Righteousness, and have gone about establishing their own righteousness.

But as Paul teaches;

Rom. 3: 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

As Peter says; Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[JohnD70X7]

The new-renewed covenant was renewed immediately after bnei Yisrael committed adultery by way of the golden calf incident and Mosheh broke the first tablets. However this was hidden in much cryptic language, and Mosheh left it for the Meshiah who was to come, to fully expound it when he came, (which of course he did in the Gospel accounts).

Deuteronomy 32:6 TS2009
6 “Do you do this to יהוה, O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, who bought you, Who created you and established you?

This is expounded by the same Prophet who writes of the renewed covenant you quote from.
Review chapter three: no more wifey, otherwise one cannot be placed among the sons.

So then the Temple sacrifices were not effective or necessary since before there was a Temple?
That doesn't make sense!

Forever forgiveness of sin is what the New (not renewed) Covenant is about.
Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 again.

 

[JohnD70X7]

You are missing a very important biblical Fact here. God furthered Abraham's Covenant to Abraham's Children, Israel. ( Gen. 17:1,2, Ex. 2:24, 25 & Ex. 19:5,6) Abraham Isaac and Jacob (Israel) kept this Covenant, (Gen. 26:5) Israel didn't. (Ex. 32:1) This Covenant was broken, the tables of Stone shattered. God was going to wipe Israel out and make a nation out of Moses. There was no longer a Covenant between Israel and God at this time.

Moses had to go up a second time.

Ex. 32: 30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

It was this 2nd Covenant, the first Covenant God made with Israel alone, that God Addressed in Jeremiah. In this Covenant God "ADDED" provisions regarding how His Law would be received, and how Transgressions of His Law would be provided for. Provisions not included in God's covenant with Abraham or Israel in the day God Led them out of Egypt.

There was no instruction to bring a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it before sins could be forgiven, in the Covenant Gave to Abraham, and then to Abraham's Children, that the Children of Israel broke.

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

Paul speaks to this "LAW" in Galatians 3. (It was "ADDED" because of Transgressions, Til the Seed should come)

So although not taught by many of this world's religions who come in Christ's name, the Scriptures are clear and the Hebrews author knew this truth in his recollection.

Heb. 8:9"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

So Biblical facts to understand.

#1. In Exodus 32, there was no Covenant with Israel, no Priesthood Covenant. Nothing!!! The Covenant that changed, was the Covenant Moses acquired the 2nd time he went up for 40 days and nights. It was after this that the Covenant God mentions in Jer. 31 was established, even the Priesthood covenant with Levi came after this event.

Mal. 2: 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

And when did this fear occur?

Ex. 32: 26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

When these truths are considered, popular religious philosophy regarding God's "New covenant" is brought into question. And rightly so.

I'll show you the difference it makes in another post.

And again Tabernacle and Temple sacrifices were unnecessary if this were true and the New Covenant was in place before there was a Tabernacle or a Temple.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 states forgiveness of sins for simply being part of the New Covenant.