Two really important questions

[Always in His Presence]

Our resident pastor posted this on another thread, and I did not want to derail that thread, so I thought I'd bring it here.

Here is the quote:

I agree. Of course we need to get to "know" who God is but the sad truth is we create god (small case) in our image, mostly from the junk we have been taught about him. We see God through the lenses others have given us. This is why I believe our theology should be based on experience as much as textbooks, even if that textbook is the Bible, (misinterpreted).

1. Is the Bible just a text book?

Is it not inerrant? Is it not the Word of God?

2. Does personal experience trump the textbook?

 

[Child of JC]

Our resident pastor posted this on another thread, and I did not want to derail that thread, so I thought I'd bring it here.

Here is the quote:



1. Is the Bible just a text book?

Is it not inerrant? Is it not the Word of God?

2. Does personal experience trump the textbook?

The bible is just a text book. Look at how many read and study it without ever really knowing God personally.

The Word is Jesus.

The bible is 100% truthful. Man's interpretations are not always the heart of God.

 

[Always in His Presence]

The bible is just a text book. Look at how many read and study it without ever really knowing God personally.

The Word is Jesus.

The bible is 100% truthful. Man's interpretations are not always the heart of God.

Then is Jesus just a man, look how many witnessed his life and miracles and yet were never saved.

 

[~RENEE~]

The Bible is the Written word of God

and not a mere "text book"

It was just a text book it would be allowed in the schools.

 

[TasManOfGod]

The really sad thing is that (under this erroneous doctrine)God gets the blame for all our faults but doesn't get the credit for already enduring them.

 

[Ajax 777]

1. Is the Bible just a text book?

Is it not inerrant? Is it not the Word of God?

No, of course the Bible is not "just some book" to throw
around as we see fit. We know it is God-breathed, and
we know it is the closest thing we have to empirical evidence
of the Living God's counsel to us. We are told "the grass fades;
the flowers wither; but the words of the LORD will stand forever".
We are told that God jealously guards His Word, day and night
watches over it to see to it that it is performed.

We are the ones who err by it in our lack of understanding.
But God Who gave it us is infallible, and He will remain faithful
to the keeping of His Word, even when we are unfaithful
(yes, that passage applies in that context also).

2. Does personal experience trump the textbook?

What sort of experience?

If our tainted experience trumped God's perfect words,
then Mohammed was surely greater than most Christians.
I'd say that experience is, or can be anyway, like the false prophets
whom God would use to test whether the people truly loved Him or not.
They too seemed to provide an experience which contradicted God's words to His people,
but those who professed to love God were being tested to see whether they would hold fast His words.

So no, experience is either confirmed by the Word,
or it is exposed as false by the same Word.
But it NEVER trumps the Word.

But....is any of this really what Jim was saying? Just asking.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Our resident pastor posted this on another thread, and I did not want to derail that thread, so I thought I'd bring it here.

Here is the quote:



1. Is the Bible just a text book?

It depends on how one uses it . Thinking it as a book - a singular writing - instead of a collection of writings helps to bring incorrect thinking concerning the purpose of the writings .

Is it not inerrant? Is it not the Word of God?

How could it when they are plural and none of the originals exist and no perfect translation can exist ?

2. Does personal experience trump the textbook?

What the Lord reveals trumps any doctrine interpreted by the mind from a set of writings . Faith and salvation can only come through His revealing Himself . There have been people who have studied the Scriptures all of their lives and died as far from salvation as they were before seeing the Scriptures for the first time .

 

[weariedsoul]

The scriptures are the Word of God.

His sheep know His voice. The Lord interprets the scriptures and teaches us all things.

 

[weariedsoul]

interesting comparison between the Lords words and paul's words.


Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Php 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

 

[JimB]

Since this is directed at me (the infamous “resident pastor”), I will offer the following response (for myself only).

[quote=Simply Put;61593432]*****

​

1. Is the Bible just a text book?

Is it not inerrant? Is it not the Word of God? [/quote]
​

Of course it is not "just" a textbook. But the way some dismiss experience as irrelavant, it seems like they think it is.

As for inerrancy, I would say that I believe the Bible is inspired, but I do not believe in inerrancy the way fundamentalists use the term.

*****

2. Does personal experience trump the textbook?

As I have said many times before, sigh, I believe that if the Bible is true, it will work (and FTR it is true and it does work) -- if it doesn’t work then it ain’t the Word. To say that I "claimed a promise" and it didn’t work, or it worked and I just don’t know it, or it will work later or whatever justification we make for it not working as we were told it would/should means that we probably need to rethink our theology, not make excuses. (But, I repeat myself, again ... somebody is not paying attention ) I thought I had explained this in a score of previous posts.

 

[TasManOfGod]

And if it did work for somebody else, would that be an aberration Jim; after all God is not a respecter of persons?

 

[Svt4Him]

The Bible is a guide for all things spiritual. It is not a manual on my car, nor a GPS, but it was never meant to be.

 

[Child of JC]

Then is Jesus just a man,

Oye.

 

[JimB]

And if it did work for somebody else, would that be an aberration Jim; after all God is not a respecter of persons?

I am not sure what you are driving at, Tas, but let me explain, AGAIN. I am content to let God be God. Whatever he does is best. I do not judge his actions, I trust his love. I have faith in God, not in what he does. If God said his promises work, then they work, whether I see them work or not. God is wiser than my prayers. If I pray for someone's healing and they are not healed--even if they die (which has happened)--then I am content to trust that God knows best. He does not work at my command but according to his will.

 

[dysert]

1. Is the Bible just a text book?

Is it not inerrant? Is it not the Word of God?

2. Does personal experience trump the textbook?

I don't know what you mean by "textbook", but it's not *just* a book. It is the word of God (1 Thes. 2:13). And since it was "breathed out" (inspired) by God (2 Tim 3:16) it must be inerrant -- in the original. We don't have the original, but many translations are very close.

No, personal experience would not trump the Bible. Our experiences may be the result of drugs, brain misfires, etc. The Bible, though, is the constant. If we experience something that doesn't seem consistent with the Bible, then it's because we're misinterpreting our experience or misunderstanding the Bible.

 

[Scottmcc1]

What I see about the Bible:
- is a text book to those who are not believing in Jesus and/or are not walking with Jesus at that time. 2 Cor 1:20 ~For as many as may be the promises of God in Him they are yes . . . . . . . and amen.~
- The Bible has power and is the truth to those who are walking with Jesus and believing in Him and not just coasting in life. Heb 4:12 ~For the word of God is living and active and sharper than a two edged sword.~

The Bible is still the truth with those who are not walking with God, yet it has no power with them and in their prayers if they don't believe.

Experience can be used to show what we are actually believing for. Rom 12:1,2

Experience can never be used to show the Bible is not true. Experience just shows what we may have faith for.

 

[JimB]

*****
Experience can never be used to show the Bible is not true.

*****

Yes. But experience can show that the interpretation of scripture that I have been badly taught is not true. If it were true, what I believe would work.

 

[Ajax 777]

Yes. But experience can show that the interpretation of scripture that I have been badly taught is not true. If it were true, what I believe would work.

Well, how are you determining whether or not something works?

It seems you do also have a point, Jim. But fools like me
don't dun need all this here confyoozhun.

 

[Tobias]

Many Christians SAY they believe the Bible, but then their actions or their doctrine shows us something different!

Many don't believe that the Gifts if the Spirit are for today. They think that signs and wonders are a thing of the past, and died out with the apostles.

Other Christians think that that the Old Testament has nothing relevant for us to learn from it.

I have even run into some people on this forum that think the words of Jesus don't apply to us today! Everything for them is chopped up into dispensations, and so essentially only a very small portion of the Bible is still usable by Christians.


Jesus complained to his disciples and said: "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' but do not do the things that I say?" James teaches us that faith without works is dead.

So I ask the same question. Who is the one that really believes the Bible? The person who says "Lord, Lord" to it but doesn't do what it says? Or the person who finds a way to apply as many principles as they can from the Word into their daily life?

 

[Scottmcc1]

Yes. But experience can show that the interpretation of scripture that I have been badly taught is not true. If it were true, what I believe would work.

John 15:7 If you abide in me and my word abides in you ask what you wish and it will be done for you.

I would not say the Bible is not true. I would say I am not abiding in Jesus and would seek Jesus for His input.