Two questions on the same point

[blueapplepaste]

oh look, another "democrats hate america and want the country to fail because they don't fawn all over GWB and his policies" thread.

Haven't you learned by now that if you don't follow Bush and everything he does rank and file then you are a treacherous coward and obviously a traitor who helps Al-Qaeda by disagreeing with Bush and anything he does.

[/sarcasm]

But seriously. I love how some equate disagreement with supporting the enemy. Dissent is sadly equal to treason to some. How un-American some are who hide under the guise of patriotism. How sad for America.

 

[Borealis]

Haven't you learned by now that if you don't follow Bush and everything he does rank and file then you are a treacherous coward and obviously a traitor who helps Al-Qaeda by disagreeing with Bush and anything he does.

[/sarcasm]

But seriously. I love how some equate disagreement with supporting the enemy. Dissent is sadly equal to treason to some. How un-American some are who hide under the guise of patriotism. How sad for America.

As I said, America has been successful in the past because of the unspoken agreement that politics ends at the water's edge. The Democrats have thrown that away for partisan gain and have weakened America a great deal and made it vulnerable to its enemies. You can call it patriotism if you want; liberals have been twisting words around for years to suit their purposes, and this is no different.

It would help if liberals learned from their mistakes, but they won't even acknowledge that they make them. Dissent is not always treason, but it's not always patriotic, either. Openly aiding the enemies of America is not patriotic. And hiding the good work America does in Iraq while hammering away on things like Abu Ghraib (which are very minor in the larger picture) aids the enemy, emboldens them and convinces them that all they have to do is hold on and America will give in and turn tail. And again, Clinton's reaction to Mogadishu convinced bin Laden to plot and execute the 9/11 attacks. With Iran working feverishly to get nuclear weapons, is that really a lesson we want to teach terrorists again?

 

[notto]

And again, Clinton's reaction to Mogadishu convinced bin Laden to plot and execute the 9/11 attacks.

So you would certainly condemn anybody who urged Clinton to get out of Somalia, right?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r103:H06OC3-756:

 

[Jacey]

First of all, the Democrats and American liberals in general have spoken often about how they 'oppose the war but support the troops.' Has anyone asked the soldiers whether they see the Democrats' actions as supportive or not?

I will assume this question is not rhetorical.

Yes.

There are many more servicemembers against the war then people think.

I would say servicemembers are demoralized because the war is a mess, they saw their friends limbs blown off, or something of that nature......not because of what they read in the papers.

 

[Maxwell511]

In other words, does their only chance of regaining power lie in the defeat of America abroad?

The great thing about bipartisan politics is that questions like these can be turned around.

For example, does the only chance of the Right regaining power lie in adherence to, and belief in the final victory of, the Bush Doctrine? If the policy is failing can the Right admit it, change it and still retain power?

 

[Maxwell511]

Openly aiding the enemies of America is not patriotic. And hiding the good work America does in Iraq while hammering away on things like Abu Ghraib (which are very minor in the larger picture) aids the enemy, emboldens them and convinces them that all they have to do is hold on and America will give in and turn tail.

Might seem like an odd couple of questions. But who are Americas enemies in Iraq, what are their objectives and when did they appear in Iraq?

 

[Voegelin]

Dissent is not always treason, but it's not always patriotic, either. Openly aiding the enemies of America is not patriotic

Phil Donahue and other liberals have said dissent is the highest form of patriotism. What are they thinking? Donahue, despite his far left views, is a rational individual. As a Catholic he must know the difference between form and content. Are liberals such as Donahue saying exactly what they mean? Could they actually believe Benedict Arnold, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, Alger Hiss, Joel Barr and Harry Dexter White were patriots? Or are they unable to defend their position any other way? Is that it?

 

[blueapplepaste]

It would help if liberals learned from their mistakes, but they won't even acknowledge that they make them.

Conservatives and Repubs could also learn from their mistakes; i.e. the state of our country. They've had the keys to the car for nearly 6 years now; no more excuses. Things aren't great and it's not the Dems fault.

Dissent is not always treason, but it's not always patriotic, either.

When is dissent ever treason?

Openly aiding the enemies of America is not patriotic.

Tell me how me saying that we need a new plan for Iraq helps the enemies?

And hiding the good work America does in Iraq while hammering away on things like Abu Ghraib (which are very minor in the larger picture) aids the enemy, emboldens them and convinces them that all they have to do is hold on and America will give in and turn tail.

AbuGhraib was minor in the larger picture?!? Please. You are severly mistaken in that assumption. People remember the bad; not the good. It's human nature. It doesn't matter what we do in Iraq, most there and elsewhere are framing and have framed everything we do around the prisoner abuse. It doesn't matter what happens; we are forever stained because of that "minor" incident. And quite frankly, I have yet to see much proof of the good you speak about.

 

[Guttermouth]

Is that the best you can come up with in response? Did you even read the transcript? Let me sum it up for those with short attention spans: this soldier's membership in Rush Limbaugh's website was paid for by a family (the Adopt-A-Soldier program), who through e-mail contacted him and asked if he or the troops needed anything. He said that the troops were fine, but clothing for the Iraqis would be welcome. Expecting maybe a couple of boxes, he was surprised when they collaborated with a couple of high schools and sent between SIXTY AND EIGHTY boxes of clothing for the Iraqi civilians.

THAT is the kind of thing America is doing in Iraq. And you'll never hear a word about this in the mainstream media, because it's a positive story, which they refuse to admit exists.

Let me get this straight. We go over to Iraq and blow the country to hell. They still have worse electrical service, fewer and worse hospitals... let's just say the place is a wreck. We have dozens to hundreds of people dieing every day, not to mention the injured and maimed. Unemployment is through the roof. It is so dangerous the press can't even get out to report on anything, much less the so-called great things we are doing.

So there are a bunch of people with no clothes, the result of us blowing them to hell, and some of us send over some boxes of clothes we got together and collected. "THAT" is the kind of thing America is doing! yay!

Burn someone's house down. Give them a cardboard box to live in. Call yourself a hero. Is that what you are saying? Thats what I am hearing.

And what does that have to do with supporting the troops? Was it nice for this soldier to try to give to people he saw in need? Yes, but what does his nice action have to do with me supporting him? Nothing.

Supporing him would be not sending him to be killed or maimed for no reason. The added benefit is people's houses don't get blown up, thus they don't need my old clothes.

 

[Jetgirl]

I would say servicemembers are demoralized because the war is a mess, they saw their friends limbs blown off, or something of that nature......not because of what they read in the papers.

Looks like I get to play Andedote War again.

I am surrounded on all sides by Marines, easily everyone I know is, or is related to, a service member.

I hear of no demoralization except great disappointment in the disparity between what they see with their eyes and what we see with MSM.

Who's antedote wins? I want a +2 location roll.

 

[Vylo]

The way retreating from Vietnam was a 'win for America?' That 'win' cost 5,000,000 lives in Cambodia and Vietnam at the hands of the 'humane' Communist regimes that took over. If that's a win, imagine what a loss would have been like.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

But the insurgency is already in its last throes I thought? .