Two Beasts, Not One

[Davy]

@tall73 asked me to clarify in Revelation 13 about the beast idea, he said...

"The beast of 13 we agree being a kingdom.

2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

And yes, the reference to the loepard, bear, lion, etc. recall Daniel 7.

The second point you will have to spell out a bit more for us. It clearly is meant to mimic the lamb, but speaks as a dragon. But you already have the precedent of a beast representing a kingdom.

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

The second beast causes people to worship the first beast.

So what tells you that the second beast is Satan? "
___________________________________________________

The Revelation 13:4-8 verses should have already prepared us in the earlier part of the chapter about the "dragon", which is linked to the "another beast" who speaks as a dragon.


Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

When it says 'they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast', that immediately points out that the "dragon" is different than the kingdom beast of verse 1. Because the idea of the "dragon" is associated with the "another beast" of v.11, a second beast, which is an entity that works miracles and not the kingdom, then it must mean a person.

Thus there are 2 beasts shown in Rev.13, one is a kingdom, and the other is the "dragon" who works those events in verses 4 through 8, and is tied to verses 11 forward showing 'how' he causes the world to worship him.

And in the previous Rev.12 chapter, the title of "dragon" specifically we are told is another name for Satan himself.

 

[Davy]

More info about the "dragon" as Satan in Revelation, and as a beast king.

Revelation points to the beast idea applied to the devil at first back in Revelation 11, so we were to pick up on that early before getting to the Rev.12 & 13 chapters:

Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

Now just who would have power to ascend out of the bottomless pit, which means the pit of hell? Certainly not any soul that died and has been assigned there. We know the angels which sinned are kept in chains awaiting the judgment in Tartarus, the deepest part of the abyss of hell, according to Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:4). So this beast can't be those angels that sinned. And we know this isn't the beast kingdom that will kill God's two witnesses that will appear there in Jerusalem.

It leaves only one entity, and that is Satan himself, the "dragon". It is he that will ascend out of the bottomless pit of hell, which is an expression for his casting out of heaven to this earth as a result of the war in heaven per Revelation 12:7-9.

Per Rev.9, Satan also is the angel over the bottomless pit, and a king. More of his titles are given there in Rev.9, one in Greek and another in Hebrew.

Yet there is even more proof in Revelation 17 that Satan is this beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit to work the events of Daniel 7 upon the saints, and blaspheming God's name, i.e., the things of Revelation 13:4-8 which the "dragon" does.

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Rev.17:11 above is pointing to that "beast" being an 8th king, and 'of'... the previous 7 kings. How can any flesh born man be a latter king and also... be 'of' previous seven kings?? That doesn't really make sense does it? It doesn't if one is thinking with their fleshy carnal mind, because that is not possible with flesh man. But with Satan, it is, because he has been overseer of the previous beast kings and beast kingdoms upon this earth, beginning with ancient Babylon.

So not only is Revelation 13:11 forward pointing to a 2nd beast as the "dragon", Satan himself, the beast idea is also pointing to the idea of a king with that entity.

The 2nd beast as a king makes sense, because in Daniel 4 the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, wrote how God humbled him in making him to live in the wild literally like a beast, not being in his right mind, eating grass like an ox (medical condition of 'boanthropy').

 

[tall73]

More info about the "dragon" as Satan in Revelation, and as a beast king.

Revelation points to the beast idea applied to the devil at first back in Revelation 11, so we were to pick up on that early before getting to the Rev.12 & 13 chapters:

Rev 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

Now just who would have power to ascend out of the bottomless pit, which means the pit of hell? Certainly not any soul that died and has been assigned there. We know the angels which sinned are kept in chains awaiting the judgment in Tartarus, the deepest part of the abyss of hell, according to Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:4). So this beast can't be those angels that sinned. And we know this isn't the beast kingdom that will kill God's two witnesses that will appear there in Jerusalem.

It leaves only one entity, and that is Satan himself, the "dragon". It is he that will ascend out of the bottomless pit of hell, which is an expression for his casting out of heaven to this earth as a result of the war in heaven per Revelation 12:7-9.

Per Rev.9, Satan also is the angel over the bottomless pit, and a king. More of his titles are given there in Rev.9, one in Greek and another in Hebrew.

Yet there is even more proof in Revelation 17 that Satan is this beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit to work the events of Daniel 7 upon the saints, and blaspheming God's name, i.e., the things of Revelation 13:4-8 which the "dragon" does.

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Rev.17:11 above is pointing to that "beast" being an 8th king, and 'of'... the previous 7 kings. How can any flesh born man be a latter king and also... be 'of' previous seven kings?? That doesn't really make sense does it? It doesn't if one is thinking with their fleshy carnal mind, because that is not possible with flesh man. But with Satan, it is, because he has been overseer of the previous beast kings and beast kingdoms upon this earth, beginning with ancient Babylon.

So not only is Revelation 13:11 forward pointing to a 2nd beast as the "dragon", Satan himself, the beast idea is also pointing to the idea of a king with that entity.

The 2nd beast as a king makes sense, because in Daniel 4 the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, wrote how God humbled him in making him to live in the wild literally like a beast, not being in his right mind, eating grass like an ox (medical condition of 'boanthropy').

Thank you for clarifying.