You are absolutely correct!
Curious how you all read this.
'So that through him all might believe' Is the 'him' John or the Lord?
Do you think
'So that through John all might believe'
or
'So that through Jesus all might believe'
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Please understand that the word "might" here is not used in the sense that we understand it today, as a possibility. English words and usage have changed over the centuries.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
I don't mix and match parables. Staying with in the confines of what Jesus said in John 10, He said He would die for THE sheep. He then noted there were:Contradictory statements, unless you believe everyone is a sheep, but then why the parable of the Sheep AND the goats? Things that make you go hmmm...
Rather, quite underwhelming. In the local context of John 10, the sheep refers to humanity.
Your claim that my argument is weak semantics is less than weak. Your claims do not prove a thing. Where is your proof?
It would be helpful to actually read what I post before you make such a mistake. I specifically noted v.7-11. I never said anything about "all of Jn 10".
We aren't talking about universalism (which seems to be a pet form of deflection of yours) and I initially asked if the lost sheep are saved....so are they?
49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us[e] that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish. 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,
52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[f] 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
And again:
Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Sure, but it's not nice to mix and match different parables. They all aren't teaching the exact same thing, right?Except there's more to it than just John 10. Jesus uses sheep more than once.
Each context is unique to itself. If your "rule" were correct, then Jesus would have simply called that crowd "goats", rather than saying they were "not of My sheep". But He didn't. So that rule is bogus.To say that He uses sheep in one context here, and in another context elsewhere is stretching it, especially considering that sheep are used to illustrate God's people throughout scripture. Jesus listeners, the Jews, would know this.
Why can't they refer to demonic influences that are trying to deceive the sheep?So we can start at verse 7? Okay.
So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. (John 10:7, 8 NASB)
Notice that thieves and robbers are not sheep.
Sure. What verses says that?I didn't know if you thought everyone was a sheep. It seems to be common amongst non-Calvinists.
All of the lost sheep will be saved.
Once again, nobody becomes a sheep. That is nowhere found in scripture.
Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:25-28 NASB)
Sheep hear Him. Everyone else does not.
No, not all are sheep.No. All are sheep. It's just that some are His, as He Himself noted. Some were "not of His sheep", and there were "other sheep". It's all in Jn 10.
The point is that Jesus would die for the sheep. If He had said He would lay down his life for His sheep, then the Calvinists would have an argument.
He was speaking in the PRESENT TENSE when he wrote that.
He was a saved sinner by grace. That was his point.
Paying attention to the verb tenses helps a lot in understanding what was written.
everyone sleeping?
All through him might believe, must be Christ the him, John is just bearing witness to the light.
'So that through Jesus all might believe'
Lets think about this. Jesus is the author of our faith.
It is through Jesus then that all might believe.
Sounds very Calvinistic to me.
If Jesus is the one creating the belief, giving the gift of faith.
Jesus said without Me you can do nothing. So I dont see any conflicts.
I guess we are supposed to believe that the Shepherd who gave His life for the sheep stopped short of giving His life to actually save them. That's such a poor picture of a "good" shepherd.
All have the chance to believe. Jesus is the Savior of all, and especially of those who believe.everyone sleeping?
All through him might believe, must be Christ the him, John is just bearing witness to the light.
'So that through Jesus all might believe'
Lets think about this. Jesus is the author of our faith.
It is through Jesus then that all might believe.
Sounds very Calvinistic to me.
If Jesus is the one creating the belief, giving the gift of faith.
Jesus said without Me you can do nothing. So I dont see any conflicts.
I didn't know if you thought everyone was a sheep. It seems to be common amongst non-Calvinists.
All of the lost sheep will be saved.
If we hold onto our faith and obey Jesus.
Of course, people can fall away from Jesus see Galatians 5:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Peter 3:17. We are warned not to drift away, Hebrews 2:1, not to draw back, Hebrews 10:38. We are told how not to fall, 2 Peter 1:10, how not to be hardened, Hebrews 3:8,13.
God can throw people out, Matthew 22:13, blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33, remove your lampstand, Revelation 2:5, sign you a place with unbelievers, Luke 12:46, and cut you off, Romans 11:19-21. We can become defiled, Hebrews 12:15. Our lamps can burn out, Matthew 25:8. We can cause ourselves to have to have Christ formed in us again, Galatians 4:19.
We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, Acts 14:22, and 1 John 2:24.
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