Turn the other cheek

[Mom2Alex]

What does that mean to you? What do you think Jesus meant when He spoke those words? What about the rest of the passage contained within Matthew 5?

But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well. 40 If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well. 41 Should anyone press you into service for one mile, http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm#foot26 go with him for two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow. 43 http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm#foot27"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? 48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.Narvarre commentary to follow.

God bless you

 

[Davidnic]

To me, I have always tried to practically implement this with the attitude of: Choose not to be offended, grant the benefit of the doubt and try to move forward. See that even if something or someone that hurts you that there may be good. If someone is an enemy of you...they may still be a friend of Christ...and if that is the case then your foundation for "enemy" is your own perception and then the plank needs to come out of our own eye.

Now there are more complex situations...but in daily life the above serves me well.

 

[Mom2Alex]

38 "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; 41 and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.

From the Navarre Commentary, St. Matthew, wise words:

5:38-42

Among the Semites, from whom the Israelites stemmed, the law of vengeance ruled. It led to interminable strife and countless crimes. In the early centuries of the chosen people, the law of retaliation was recognized as an ethical advance, socially and legally: no punishment could exceed the crime, and any punitive retaliation was outlawed. In this way, the honour of the clans and families was satisfied, and endless feuds avoided.

As far as New Testament morality is concerned, Jesus establishes a definitive advance: a sense of forgiveness and absence of pride play an essential role. Every legal framework for combating evil in the world, every reasonable defense of personal rights, should be based on morality. The last three verses refer to mutual charity among the children of the Kingdom, a charity which presupposes and enhances justice.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Continuing on, first 5:43-47. Chapter 5:46 and 48 to be expanded upon later.

This passage sums up the teaching which precedes it. Our Lord goes so far as to say that a Christian has no personal enemies. his only enemy is evil as such --sin--but not the sinner. Jesus himself puts this into practice with those who crucified him, and he continues to act in the same way towards sinners who rebel against him, and he continues to act in the same way towards sinners who rebel against him and despise him. Consequently, the saints have always followed his example -- like St. Stephen, the first martyr, who prayed for those who were putting him to death. This is the apex of Christian perfection--to love, and pray for, even those who persecute and calumiate us. It is the distinguishing mark of the children of God.

 

[benedictaoo]

It doesn't mean doormathood and letting ppl walk over you and let bad behavior go unchecked.

To me it means we are to have no ill will for anyone who has hurt us, that we don't wish them a rotten life or to burn in hell. It means we want for them what God wants for them.

I think we owe it to ppl to not let them continue to hurt us. We aren't doing them any favors by what some ppl think turning the other cheek means and just letting them to continue to abuse you or take advantage of you.

 

[tadoflamb]

So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

If I could edit any line out of the bible, I'd take one out because it drives me nuts.

My pastor says a better translation would be "Be compassionate, just as your heavenly Father is compassionate".

In terms of forgiveness, and this is something I've learned mostly through my marriage, we're called to forgive completely like our heavenly Father forgives completely. That is, once we're forgiven those sins are as if they were dropped into the depths of the ocean. Now, it's hard to forget someones sins against us, but I think what we are called to do is to not hold someone's past sins as a weapon against them sometime in the future.

God bless,

Tad

 

[Mom2Alex]

46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

5:46 - "Tax collectors": the Roman Empire had no officials of its own for the collection of taxes; in each country it used local people for this purpose. These were free to engage agents (hence we find references to 'chief tax collectors': (Lk 19:2). The global amount of tax for each region was specified by the Roman authorities; the tax collectors levied more than this amount, keeping the surplus for themselves: this led them to act rather arbitrarily, which was why the people hated them. In the case of the Jews, insult was added to injury by the fact that the chosen people were being exploited by the Gentiles.

 

[Mom2Alex]

48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

5:48 - Verse 48 is, in a sense, a summary of the teaching in this entire chapter, including the Beatitudes. Strictly speaking, it is quite impossible for a created being to be as perfect as God. what our Lord means here is that God's own perfection should be the model that every faithful Christian tries to follow, even though he realizes that there is an infinite distance between himself and his Creator. However, this does not reduce the force of this commandment; it sheds more light on it. It is a difficult commandment to live up to, but also with this we must take account of the enormous help grace gives us to go so far as to tend towards divine perfection. Certainly, the perfection that we should imitate does not refer to the power and wisdom of God, which are totally beyond our scope; here the context seems to refer primarily to love and mercy. Along the same lines, St. Luke quotes these words of our Lord: "Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful."(Lk 6:36; cf. the note on Lk 6:20-59).

Clearly, the 'universal call to holiness' is not a recommendation but a commandment of Jesus Christ. "Your duty is to sanctify yourself. Yes, even you. who thinks that this task is only for the priests and religious? To everyone, without exception, our Lord said: 'Be ye perfect, as my heavenly Father is perfect'" (St. J. Escriva, The Way, 291). this teaching is sanctioned by chapter 5 of Vatican II's Constitution Lumen Gentium, where it says (at no. 40): "The Lord Jesus, divine teacher and model of all perfection, preached holiness of life (of which he is the author and maker) to each and every one of his disciples without distinction: 'You therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect' [...] It is therefore quite clear that all Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of love, and by this holiness a more human manner of life is fostered also in earthly society."

 

[Mom2Alex]

If I could edit any line out of the bible, I'd take one out because it drives me nuts.

My pastor says a better translation would be "Be compassionate, just as your heavenly Father is compassionate".

In terms of forgiveness, and this is something I've learned mostly through my marriage, we're called to forgive completely like our heavenly Father forgives completely. That is, once we're forgiven those sins are as if they were dropped into the depths of the ocean. Now, it's hard to forget someones sins against us, but I think what we are called to do is to not hold someone's past sins as a weapon against them sometime in the future.

God bless,

Tad

Your pastor is not as tough as the words of Christ. Do you mean you aren't perfect?! LOL Surely, your wife thinks you are perfect? I know - this whole 'being Christian' thing really rips sometimes.

See my post in the thread on the Navarre Commentary: Mt 5:48. I wasn't going to include it until I saw your reply.

God bless you,

Kelly, woman with the dented halo

 

[Anglian]

It means what Our Blessed Lord said He meant.

I don't say this lightly. The Copts are subject to various acts of repression and violence in Egypt from Islamic extremists. Some of our young people, looking at the way the Palestinians next door respond to Israeli violence, express the wish to resort to it themselves. Fortunately they follow the advice of their priests, who counsel what Christ counselled. We are, hard though it be, to turn the other cheek.

We don't owe it to anyone to stop them hurting us, we owe God obedience to His express wish. Do we always live up to this? No, we are human and we are sinners. Does that mean we should make excuses and seek to soften God's words? No. It means we repent, confess our sin, seek absolution, and try, with His help, to do better next time.

We see how Our Lord reacted when St. Peter struck the Roman soldier in the Garden at Gethsemene; He did not praise St. Peter for teaching the Roman not to lay hands on the Lord's anointed one; He allowed Himself to be taken. Can we live up to that? No. Can we try? Hardly. Should we try? Always.

God is love, As we are His, so we show our love for each other. Do we love our friends? Well, as we have been told, even sinners do that. Do we love our enemies? Hard to do? Which bit of carrying our cross for Him is the easy bit?

May the Lord forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. Lord, have mercy.

peace,

Anglian

 

[benedictaoo]

Well, Anglian, look at it like this, if you are in a marrige where you are being beat up, Christ does not say, just give him the other cheek to punch as well... you owe it to the man, yourself and any kids to stop it becuase he can really hurt you or kill you and find himself in jail, so not allowing another to harm you is an act of charity.

Christ never taught us to be doormats. Having a doormat mentality is called codependency... you do not let anyone take advantage of you or abuse you. It's not against the gospel to defend yourself and to stand up for yourself.

It takes courage and humility to not be a doormat and to stand up to ppl. if you don't stop their behavior, you are enabling them and that is not charity.

Now as far as countries returning an eye for an eye... of course Christians aren't going to act in kind to a terrorist. Of course we have to turn the other cheek but we also have to protect oursleves from terrorist attacking.

 

[isabella1]

This is what turning the other cheek is to me. I will give you an example of what I did....

At work about a year ago, someone unjustly, publicly embarrassed, humiliated, and yelled at me. My first reaction was wanting to strike back and LET THEM HAVE IT!

Instead, I made a decision, to walk away in silence, going down the hall taking a moment and entered into prayer for that person who just attacked me.

I could not believe how good that felt. Even though I was still hurt, and cried nearly all the way home that night. I know in my heart that I listened to the Holy Spirits promptings, for the very first time in that split second and not after the fact.

That is what felt good. That was spiritual growth for me that day.

 

[benedictaoo]

I know what you mean. My old next door neighbor came over one day to complain about my Autistic son going over into his yard and he was such a jerk, made me so mad but instead of arguing with the man, I just said this conversation is over (when he got personal and nasty) and shut my door.

It did feel good to do that and when ever my mind wanted to wander off and get angry, I would let it go.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

The simplest explanation I have heard for turn the other cheek is, "Do not return insult for insult." That's the best explanation I have heard in a nutshell. Isabella has given a good example of how that is to be done. Patience is a key virtue in turning the other cheek.

 

[Anglian]

Well, Anglian, look at it like this, if you are in a marrige where you are being beat up, Christ does not say, just give him the other cheek to punch as well... you owe it to the man, yourself and any kids to stop it becuase he can really hurt you or kill you and find himself in jail, so not allowing another to harm you is an act of charity.

Christ never taught us to be doormats. Having a doormat mentality is called codependency... you do not let anyone take advantage of you or abuse you. It's not against the gospel to defend yourself and to stand up for yourself.

It takes courage and humility to not be a doormat and to stand up to ppl. if you don't stop their behavior, you are enabling them and that is not charity.

Now as far as countries returning an eye for an eye... of course Christians aren't going to act in kind to a terrorist. Of course we have to turn the other cheek but we also have to protect oursleves from terrorist attacking.

Dear Benedicta,

You argue as the world always argues on this. You may be correct. But what you say is not what Our Blessed Lord tells us, and however hard it is, it is His wisdom, not that of the world, that we should endeavour to obey.

peace,

Anglian

 

[benedictaoo]

Dear Benedicta,

You argue as the world always argues on this. You may be correct. But what you say is not what Our Blessed Lord tells us, and however hard it is, it is His wisdom, not that of the world, that we should endeavour to obey.

peace,

Anglian

Jesus does not tell us to turn the other cheek so we can continue to be abused by a person.

Give me a break. It's very dangerous and irresponsible for you to go around teaching ppl this.

 

[ukok]

It means what Our Blessed Lord said He meant.

I don't say this lightly. The Copts are subject to various acts of repression and violence in Egypt from Islamic extremists. Some of our young people, looking at the way the Palestinians next door respond to Israeli violence, express the wish to resort to it themselves. Fortunately they follow the advice of their priests, who counsel what Christ counselled. We are, hard though it be, to turn the other cheek.

We don't owe it to anyone to stop them hurting us, we owe God obedience to His express wish. Do we always live up to this? No, we are human and we are sinners. Does that mean we should make excuses and seek to soften God's words? No. It means we repent, confess our sin, seek absolution, and try, with His help, to do better next time.

We see how Our Lord reacted when St. Peter struck the Roman soldier in the Garden at Gethsemene; He did not praise St. Peter for teaching the Roman not to lay hands on the Lord's anointed one; He allowed Himself to be taken. Can we live up to that? No. Can we try? Hardly. Should we try? Always.

God is love, As we are His, so we show our love for each other. Do we love our friends? Well, as we have been told, even sinners do that. Do we love our enemies? Hard to do? Which bit of carrying our cross for Him is the easy bit?

May the Lord forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. Lord, have mercy.

peace,

Anglian

I am going to ask you to clarify this. Are you suggesting that a man or woman who is physically, sexually, phsycologically and emotionally abused, remain with their husband/wife, 'turning the other cheek' until that marriage ends with the possible premature death of the victim?

Are you suggesting that the children of the marriage, who may also be physically, sexually, pschologically and emotionally abused as a result of one of the parents chronically abusive behaviour, should continually 'turn the other cheek' and suffer it as their 'lot' in life?

I will respond further when you have clarified this for me.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Hi Anglian,

The Lord would stand in the way of anyone who raises a hand to a spouse. He does not wish a husband to cause pain to his family. He does allow for physical separation for the safety of all concerned. Sacramental Marriage is permanent and though a wife and children are no longer with an abusive husband and father, they remain married. Jesus is not offended by guarding the safety of the woman and the children; He is enormously offended by an abuser being allowed to abuse.

The U.S. Catholic Bishops have made clear that “violence against women, inside or outside the home, is never justified. Violence in any form- physical, sexual, psychological, or verbal is sinful; often it is a crime as well.”

Some abused women believe that Catholic Church teaching on the permanence of marriage requires them to stay in an abusive relationship. They may hesitate to seek a separation or divorce. They may fear that they cannot re-marry in the Catholic Church.

In When I Call for Help: A Pastoral Response to Domestic Violence Against Women, the Catholic bishops emphasize that “no person is expected to stay in an abusive marriage.” Violence and abuse, not divorce, break up a marriage. The abuser has already broken the marriage covenant through his or her abusive behavior. Abused persons who have divorced may want to investigate the validity of the marriage if abuse was a pre-existing condition.

Abusive men may take a text from the Bible and distort it to support their right to batter. They often use Ephesians 5:22 (“Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord”) to justify their behavior. This passage (v. 21-33), however, refers to the mutual submission of husband and wife out of love for Christ. It means that husbands should love their wives as they love their own body, as Christ loves the Church.

The Catholic bishops condemn the use of the Bible to support abusive behavior in any form. Men and women are created in God’s image. They are to treat each other with dignity and respect.

Men who batter also cite the Bible to insist that their victims forgive them (see, for example, Matthew 6:9-15). A victim then feels guilty if she cannot do so. Forgiveness, however, does not mean forgetting the abuse or pretending that it didn’t happen. Neither is possible.

Forgiveness is not permission to repeat the abuse. Rather, forgiveness means that the victim decides to let go of the experience, to move on with life and not to tolerate abuse of any kind again.

--ForYourMarriage

 

[benedictaoo]

We don't owe it to anyone to stop them hurting us, we owe God obedience to His express wish. Do we always live up to this? No, we are human and we are sinners. Does that mean we should make excuses and seek to soften God's words? No. It means we repent, confess our sin, seek absolution, and try, with His help, to do better next time.

I'd like some clarity on this... are you saying that when the victim of abuse "falls" and wishes or takes steps to stop the abuser from continuing to abuse them, that the victim should repent?

I don't know maybe it's just the cultural difference between the east and the west but round these parts, it's the perpetrator who needs to repent.

 

[Anglian]

Jesus does not tell us to turn the other cheek so we can continue to be abused by a person.

Give me a break. It's very dangerous and irresponsible for you to go around teaching ppl this.

Dear Benedicta,
Jesus tells us to love our enemies and to return kindness to those who visit unkindness upon us; you'll have to take that dangerous teaching up with Him. I hope to clarify the implications in answer to the next two questions.

I am going to ask you to clarify this. Are you suggesting that a man or woman who is physically, sexually, phsycologically and emotionally abused, remain with their husband/wife, 'turning the other cheek' until that marriage ends with the possible premature death of the victim?

Are you suggesting that the children of the marriage, who may also be physically, sexually, pschologically and emotionally abused as a result of one of the parents chronically abusive behaviour, should continually 'turn the other cheek' and suffer it as their 'lot' in life?

I will respond further when you have clarified this for me.

Jesus does not say we must out ourselves in harm's way, and if turning the other cheek and returning unkindness with kindness does not work then we clearly have the right to remove ourselves and our loved ones from danger.

I'd like some clarity on this... are you saying that when the victim of abuse "falls" and wishes or takes steps to stop the abuser from continuing to abuse them, that the victim should repent?

I don't know maybe it's just the cultural difference between the east and the west but round these parts, it's the perpetrator who needs to repent.

No. We can, as I say, remove ourselves from harm's way.

I hope that clarifies things. As I say, this is not an academic discussion for the Copts. We live with the reality of potential violence, and its perpetration; what we do not do is to respond in kind.

peace,

Anglian