TULIP - Calvinists only, please.

[light_eclipseca]

This topic came up in another forum, and I really did not wish to argue with a fellow Calvinist at the time, but they really got me to thinking about what they stated.

Basically, I let them know that I believed that understanding Calvinism is vital to understanding the gospel; where we disagreed was that he believed that one must adhere to the Calvinistic beliefs in order to be considered saved because it is the Gospel according to the Bible.

I disagreed with him because I believed that a person did not need to understand the gospel entirely in order to accept in on the faith that God gave him. Since our understanding is growing as God's grace allows it to, one may not know all of the details of the Gospel in order to be reconciled to God by His regeneration. He did bring up a good point, though, in that since the gospel is outlined in Calvinism, maybe it is necessary to understand the basics of Calvinism and reject the Arminian faith in order to be regenerated. He did say (and I think I agree) that God has decided to use the preaching of the gospel in order to regenerate people.

What do you think? Please offer me some help. My mother accepted that Calvinism was the Biblical teaching before she passed away a couple days ago, and so I know I will see her again no matter what the outcome or conclusion of this thread is; but it would be really nice to know, since my father does not accept this teaching as true, yet, and neither do a lot of my friends. Although I have had many discussions with him, and he seems to be coming around to our view of Scripture, I would either like to have some comfort that he is not in danger just because he holds to the Arminian position, or that he may in fact be in danger so that I will be more diligent in arguing with him.

Sorry if this question seems so childish. I did not grow up in a Reformed home, nor a Reformed church. I've only ever been around Arminians except in Bible College. So, I guess feel free to argue now...I do not want Arminians posting because Arminians will miss the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is to argue about the question:

Assuming Calvinism's TULIP doctrines of grace are true, must one believe the points of Calvinism in order to be considered saved by grace?

Please take only the affirmative or the negative position. If you are unsure like me, go ahead and post what your thoughts are anyways.

 

[Eleiou]

Hey brother,

Maybe this topic/OP would be better served if it were discussed in house: Semper Reformanda - Reformed - Christian Forums

 

[light_eclipseca]

Maybe, but how can it be moved? I just figured since it had to do with Soteriology, I should post it here instead.

 

[depthdeception]

This topic came up in another forum, and I really did not wish to argue with a fellow Calvinist at the time, but they really got me to thinking about what they stated.

Basically, I let them know that I believed that understanding Calvinism is vital to understanding the gospel; where we disagreed was that he believed that one must adhere to the Calvinistic beliefs in order to be considered saved because it is the Gospel according to the Bible.

I disagreed with him because I believed that a person did not need to understand the gospel entirely in order to accept in on the faith that God gave him. Since our understanding is growing as God's grace allows it to, one may not know all of the details of the Gospel in order to be reconciled to God by His regeneration. He did bring up a good point, though, in that since the gospel is outlined in Calvinism, maybe it is necessary to understand the basics of Calvinism and reject the Arminian faith in order to be regenerated. He did say (and I think I agree) that God has decided to use the preaching of the gospel in order to regenerate people.

What do you think? Please offer me some help. My mother accepted that Calvinism was the Biblical teaching before she passed away a couple days ago, and so I know I will see her again no matter what the outcome or conclusion of this thread is; but it would be really nice to know, since my father does not accept this teaching as true, yet, and neither do a lot of my friends. Although I have had many discussions with him, and he seems to be coming around to our view of Scripture, I would either like to have some comfort that he is not in danger just because he holds to the Arminian position, or that he may in fact be in danger so that I will be more diligent in arguing with him.

Sorry if this question seems so childish. I did not grow up in a Reformed home, nor a Reformed church. I've only ever been around Arminians except in Bible College. So, I guess feel free to argue now...I do not want Arminians posting because Arminians will miss the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is to argue about the question:

Assuming Calvinism's TULIP doctrines of grace are true, must one believe the points of Calvinism in order to be considered saved by grace?

Please take only the affirmative or the negative position. If you are unsure like me, go ahead and post what your thoughts are anyways.

Calvinism, like Arminianism, is merely a philosophical interpretation of the gospel. There is nothing essential in either viewpoint to the gospel, so despite the feelings of many on both sides, there will be many Calvinists and Arminians who are reconciled to God. The gospel will remain long after philosophical paradigms have shifted and these approaches to theological interpretation have been relegated to irrelevancy.

If it is any comfort (I am sorry for your loss), your mother's reconciliation to God has absolutely nothing to do with her adherence to the tenants of Reformed theology. It has everything to do with the grace and mercy of God, a grace and mercy which extends equally to your father and friends. In the end, what matters is not that we ascribe to this or that philosophical paradigm, but rather that we sought in all things to be reconciled to God through loving God and others.

 

[Thaeoles]

Calvinism, like Arminianism, is merely a philosophical interpretation of the gospel. There is nothing essential in either viewpoint to the gospel, so despite the feelings of many on both sides, there will be many Calvinists and Arminians who are reconciled to God. The gospel will remain long after philosophical paradigms have shifted and these approaches to theological interpretation have been relegated to irrelevancy.

If it is any comfort (I am sorry for your loss), your mother's reconciliation to God has absolutely nothing to do with her adherence to the tenants of Reformed theology. It has everything to do with the grace and mercy of God, a grace and mercy which extends equally to your father and friends. In the end, what matters is not that we ascribe to this or that philosophical paradigm, but rather that we sought in all things to be reconciled to God through loving God and others.

I agree. Calvinism is but a tool to be used to help one understand the metanarrative of the Bible, The Gospel. We are not saved by faith in a systematic theology, but by grace through faith in Christ Jesus alone. As John Piper, a well known Calvinist, as said, "Don't let your theology get in the way of the Bible."

 

[AndOne]

Assuming Calvinism's TULIP doctrines of grace are true, must one believe the points of Calvinism in order to be considered saved by grace?

No - an understanding of Calvinism is not necessary to be saved. Any Calvinist who would tell you such thing really doesn't understand Calvinism....

 

[nobdysfool]

Funny how some people just cannot honor a simple request...."Calvinists only, please"

 

[AndOne]

Funny how some people just cannot honor a simple request...."Calvinists only, please"

Yea he really should have put this over in SR...

 

[Eleiou]

Hey brother,

Maybe this topic/OP would be better served if it were discussed in house: Semper Reformanda - Reformed - Christian Forums

Maybe, but how can it be moved? I just figured since it had to do with Soteriology, I should post it here instead.

We Calvinistic folk can discuss anything we wish in semper, outsiders may not interfere according to the 'house' rules. If you want , PM a moderator and request the thread be moved.

Funny how some people just cannot honor a simple request...."Calvinists only, please"

Yea he really should have put this over in SR...

Yes brothers, folk have little respect in this forum.

 

[nobdysfool]

Yea he really should have put this over in SR...

I wasn't referring to the OP, I was referring to the non-Calvinist who apparently has comprehension problems....

 

[nobdysfool]

We Calvinistic folk can discuss anything we wish in semper, outsiders may not interfere according to the 'house' rules. If you want , PM a moderator and request the thread be moved.




Yes brothers, folk have little respect in this forum.

Actually, it might be instructive to let it be here, and insist that the non-Calvinists refrain from replying.

 

[Eleiou]

Actually, it might be instructive to let it be here, and insist that the non-Calvinists refrain from replying.

Could be

 

[AndOne]

I wasn't referring to the OP, I was referring to the non-Calvinist who apparently has comprehension problems....

I know, bro - I thought the same thing you did when I saw the post by DD...

 

[depthdeception]

I wasn't referring to the OP, I was referring to the non-Calvinist who apparently has comprehension problems....

No, I saw and comprehended the statement about "Calvinist's only." However, this is is an open forum, so I decided to give my opinion anyway. Given that my answer is entirely in line with what any consistent Calvinist would say anyway, I really don't see why you are making an issue of it, other than to be obstinate.

 

[nobdysfool]

No, I saw and comprehended the statement about "Calvinist's only." However, this is is an open forum, so I decided to give my opinion anyway. Given that my answer is entirely in line with what any consistent Calvinist would say anyway, I really don't see why you are making an issue of it, other than to be obstinate.

It's a little issue called respect. Respect for the requests of others. Just because you can do something, it does not mean that you should do that thing. It was requested that non-Calvinists not respond. That's what "Calvinists only, please" means. You're not a Calvinist. It's really a very simple request....

 

[A New Dawn]

Meanwhile, back to the topic ............

Assuming Calvinism's TULIP doctrines of grace are true, must one believe the points of Calvinism in order to be considered saved by grace?

No, one does not need to believe in the Doctrines of Grace in order to be saved. One is not saved by the theology they hold, but by God, based upon whether they place their faith in Christ.

 

[JustAsIam77]

The point of this thread is to argue about the question:

Assuming Calvinism's TULIP doctrines of grace are true, must one believe the points of Calvinism in order to be considered saved by grace?

No..God alone knows who is saved by grace, Jesus' death was atonement for the sins of those elect persons whom the Father previously had determined to give to Him.

 

[nobdysfool]

Assuming Calvinism's TULIP doctrines of grace are true, must one believe the points of Calvinism in order to be considered saved by grace?

No. Salvation is not based on knowledge of doctrines, it is based on simple faith in Christ, as Savior.

 

[anthony55]

Salvation is based upon the Sovereign Eternal Purpose of God, not faith in Christ. Faith in Christ is an effect of Salvation being applied to the elect by the Holy Ghost in regenration.

 

[nobdysfool]

Salvation is obtained by means of faith. Of course it is according to the eternal purpose of God, and no one has said otherwise. But, salvation doesn't happen for anyone until they believe on Christ. That is what is being talked about, not some Hyper-Calvinist diversion.