Trying To Be A Faithful Christian, But Battling Depression, Etc

[SuperDuck]

I've been a Christian since my late teens, then backslid for several years before coming back to the Lord 10 years ago. During the years I was away I became an alcoholic and used drugs. Mostly alcoholic, though.

I liked the way that I felt when I drank. It felt like I'd go from being "The Nutty Professor" to being "Buddy Love". Of course, that didn't last and over time I found myself drinking daily just to try to feel "normal", whatever that is.

I discovered over the years that I'd inherited many of the depressive traits that both of my parents had, as well as anxiety and OCD. I also have PTSD, but that's from a personal experience. I've been diagnosed as having chronic Clinical/Major Depression. I have times where everything seems to be manageable, but then I can either feel it coming on or it will just blindside me out of the blue. It will sometimes last for months and affects most areas of my life.

This has made it very hard for me to hold a job long term and has had a major impact on my self esteem. I'm actually on partial disability (50%) from VA.

Another area where it's affected me is in my church attendance. All I want to do is be right with God. I want to be at church at least twice per week (I get up very early and work from home) and be constantly sharing his "Word" with others.

I've had really bad depressive episodes since I began my recovery from alcohol. I probably had them before, but didn't notice it as much because I was intoxicated all the time.

It's become more and more difficult for me to attend church. I try SO hard! There've been dozens of times when I'll get ready to go, get halfway there and realize that I just can't be around anyone. Other days I'll get ready to go, but realize it before I even get in the car. Sometimes I'll make it, but after having Communion, I'll slip out and go sit in the welcome area, go outside, go to the car, take off walking home and then my wife will chase me down once she's realized I've left, etc.

There are times when I just don't feel that I can do it, but after my wife and son leave I'll just start crying because I feel like I should have tried harder, that I've failed God, etc. I'll also have questions pop into my head (Satan attacking) where I'll question if I stayed home because I wanted to watch a game on TV, if I'm "really" a Christian, if I'm going to Hell and on and on.

Hebrews 10:25 "not forsaking our own assembly together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near."

I know what the Bible says about not forsaking the assembly. That scripture torments me, because I want so much to do right, but my illness betrays me sometimes.

It also makes me feel like a hypocrite by telling others about Jesus and inviting them to church when I may not even be there when they come!

I've tried to discuss it with others at church and although I know they mean well, they have no real knowledge or understanding of mental illness. It's a very in-depth issue and there are several different types of illness, so most people are simply clueless, especially elderly members.

I've tried to speak to a couple people a little bit to see if I could talk to them and, of course, they didn't understand. Both of them actually said "you think you've got it bad?" I've felt very isolated after that.

A couple months ago I tried to speak to another member. It seems like some people have stopped speaking to me or are afraid to approach me. This person told me that "they question your sincerity". I was crushed!

About 3 weeks ago I went to church and felt compelled to go forward for prayers after service. Not only did I feel compelled to do that, but I wanted to address the congregation and try to explain what I was going through, which I did.

Well, from what I've been told, it had a major impact on some members that didn't understand. It went in one ear and out the other for some. And it also led about 40 others to go to the Elders and say that "they too" suffered from depression sometimes.

I'm very happy that these individuals were able to share their burdens, I really am. What concerns me, though, is that there are different degrees and types of this illness and if all or most of these members are able to make it to church regularly, that completely undermines what I was trying to do.

I'm so very sad, frustrated and lonely now. My wife has told others "he just suffers", but they don't understand and likely never will.

Anyhow, I know I've gotten very "wordy" and I apologize for that. I just feel the need to do a complete brain dump.

Just to be clear, I'm not asking for anyone to tell me that it's "okay" to miss church when the Bible is very clear about it. I guess that I just need to vent, I need to ask for prayers and I hope that by sharing my experience I can maybe educate others just enough to be kinder and more patient with others when they don't understand the burdens they carry.

God bless you all.

 

[Leon C. Essex]

Hi SuperDuck

Though I'm familiar with some of the issues you describe, I won't presume to offer advice - though I will presume to pray for you. But if I might offer an opinion, I find your commitment to fellowship - despite all that is going on in your life - admirable, even inspirational. I'm sure you won't be able to see it like that - if only because of the nature of the problems. But I can't imagine I would do anything like as well in similar circumstances.

May God Bless You.

 

[Tempura]

No need to apologize for many words. You say it honestly like you feel, that's a lot. We should strive for honesty.

Many of those who aren't even depressed can struggle with that mindset, "getting right with God". They feel like they have to try so much harder all the time, to the point of exhaustion, as if God is getting away and one has to chase Him - or as if His grace is taken away from us if we don't do X or Y. When we're depressed, it can become heavier. Our minds often betray us.

I'm not telling you to skip church, you were clear about that, and I don't wish to annoy you. Communing can be very good and your passion is admirable. I will remind you (or most likely myself too, as is my habit) of the freedom in Christ though, since without Him none of us have hope, and hope is something we need. My wish isn't to debate you or to get you to leave your church, but just to think about the nature of ourselves and God's grace aloud.

It's not about what we can do, but about what Christ did for us. You have read the Galatians, you know how it is; it's so easy for us, even when we're in faith, to start putting more and more weight to our works, deeds and habits. We often feel like we don't deserve the love and grace of God - which we don't but He gives it freely, it is His to give - but as if that isn't enough, we want to chase it not realizing we already have it. In a way, we are barricading our doors against it and at the same time desperate for it to come in and show itself to us. That love, that grace, it's hard to understand it. We can't love that way, we often treat love as a currency, even. It just goes to show that God is God and His love is perfect, and we are so far away from that kind of purity and holiness that it's easy for us to start burdening ourselves even more. But this is the nature of Christ's sacrifice: He did what we couldn't (and can't), for us.

Christ said: "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

At the cross, He said to the criminal: "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Christ doesn't want to burden us. He told us about those who put burdens on people. Faith in Him is true freedom and true comfort. Even the criminal - who probably led a bad life all the way to the cross - found this out. He just put his hope in God in his last moments, and he was rewarded.

----------------

This is one of my favorite parts in Luke:


To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

I love this, because the publican didn't even know how to pray. He knows he's not holy in any way, so he just asks for God's mercy. I have needed this example so often. I have (and knowing myself, will again) burdened myself over and over again. For example, I try to be "better" christian. I try to do more, restrain myself more, and eventually I have set up a cage of rules for myself. Another example: I give far too much power to my sins. I stare at it, whatever it is that I had done, and worry. I suffer, because I did wrong, and I feel no grace present. Why do I worship my sins so much? Why do I give them so much more power and meaning, instead of just putting my faith in Christ, and trust that He took my sin, and give glory to God instead? I certainly know the fruits of the former and the latter.

I hope this isn't too much of a ramble, but it just goes to show that we all struggle with this "getting right with God" mentality sometimes. I certainly can't get right with God, that's why I put my hope in Christ. It is a relief, not a burden. He carried the burden.

I was an alcoholic too. I drank every day. I was at the bottom. Got very depressed and anxious, had to quit my job, many hospital visits, AA, ECT, drugs, therapy, the works. Without God I would have killed myself years ago. I was so deep in despair. But I cried to Him. I didn't know it, but He carried me. Depression is certainly not a stranger. One might say that I'm still at the bottom since I don't have a job (disability pension), no wife or children either, but I have more peace of mind than I ever did. Christ is the way. And I know I stumble, and I know I will be wrong so many times, but He will be there.

I also hope that you don't take this as preaching. I know I'm not a preacher, and I know I'm not a better christian than any other. My intent was only to say: "I understand, at least I think I do, and here's what I think of God's grace". Please don't think I'm trying to debate you, I'm really not.

About others not understanding depression, there's only so much we can do about it. If they want to listen, we can tell them. Many have to suffer from it themselves or have a loved one suffer from it to really understand it. I think the key part is trying to not get frustrated over it. If someone doesn't understand, perhaps one day they will.

Said a prayer for you, brother. Hope to hear from you again.

 

[SuperDuck]

Hi SuperDuck

Though I'm familiar with some of the issues you describe, I won't presume to offer advice - though I will presume to pray for you. But if I might offer an opinion, I find your commitment to fellowship - despite all that is going on in your life - admirable, even inspirational. I'm sure you won't be able to see it like that - if only because of the nature of the problems. But I can't imagine I would do anything like as well in similar circumstances.

May God Bless You.

Leon,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I really appreciate your prayer.

What most people don't understand is that if I miss church, the odds are very good that I'm not working the next day or week, either.

It also troubles me greatly that I'm not being the best example for my son when I don't go. I don't want him to look at me having an illness as a "free pass" for him not to go, if he's able. Once we start missing service regularly it becomes easier to continue to do so, that's why there are times when I have to force myself to go, no matter how I feel.

Sometimes I'll actually feel better when I force myself to go. I'll feel like I'm getting back on track again and it's uplifting. On the other hand, there are times when my OCD kicks in and I'll have an overwhelming feeling of having said or done something wrong, even though I didn't do anything wrong! It can stretch on and become tormenting for days or sometimes weeks. It will disrupt my sleep, too. I'll wake up in the middle of the night at times and it will instantly pop into my head.

There've been a few times where I've approached someone I thought I'd offended to apologize and they won't even remember the conversation, or if they do, they never noticed anything I said or did as being inappropriate, yet in my mind it was some kind of tragedy. It makes me very hesitant to keep putting myself in those situations, but I know that I have to keep trying.

It's so hard. :-(

Anyhow, thanks again.

SuperDuck

 

[SuperDuck]

No need to apologize for many words. You say it honestly like you feel, that's a lot. We should strive for honesty.

Many of those who aren't even depressed can struggle with that mindset, "getting right with God". They feel like they have to try so much harder all the time, to the point of exhaustion, as if God is getting away and one has to chase Him - or as if His grace is taken away from us if we don't do X or Y. When we're depressed, it can become heavier. Our minds often betray us.

I'm not telling you to skip church, you were clear about that, and I don't wish to annoy you. Communing can be very good and your passion is admirable. I will remind you (or most likely myself too, as is my habit) of the freedom in Christ though, since without Him none of us have hope, and hope is something we need. My wish isn't to debate you or to get you to leave your church, but just to think about the nature of ourselves and God's grace aloud.

It's not about what we can do, but about what Christ did for us. You have read the Galatians, you know how it is; it's so easy for us, even when we're in faith, to start putting more and more weight to our works, deeds and habits. We often feel like we don't deserve the love and grace of God - which we don't but He gives it freely, it is His to give - but as if that isn't enough, we want to chase it not realizing we already have it. In a way, we are barricading our doors against it and at the same time desperate for it to come in and show itself to us. That love, that grace, it's hard to understand it. We can't love that way, we often treat love as a currency, even. It just goes to show that God is God and His love is perfect, and we are so far away from that kind of purity and holiness that it's easy for us to start burdening ourselves even more. But this is the nature of Christ's sacrifice: He did what we couldn't (and can't), for us.

Christ said: "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

At the cross, He said to the criminal: "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Christ doesn't want to burden us. He told us about those who put burdens on people. Faith in Him is true freedom and true comfort. Even the criminal - who probably led a bad life all the way to the cross - found this out. He just put his hope in God in his last moments, and he was rewarded.

----------------

This is one of my favorite parts in Luke:


To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

I love this, because the publican didn't even know how to pray. He knows he's not holy in any way, so he just asks for God's mercy. I have needed this example so often. I have (and knowing myself, will again) burdened myself over and over again. For example, I try to be "better" christian. I try to do more, restrain myself more, and eventually I have set up a cage of rules for myself. Another example: I give far too much power to my sins. I stare at it, whatever it is that I had done, and worry. I suffer, because I did wrong, and I feel no grace present. Why do I worship my sins so much? Why do I give them so much more power and meaning, instead of just putting my faith in Christ, and trust that He took my sin, and give glory to God instead? I certainly know the fruits of the former and the latter.

I hope this isn't too much of a ramble, but it just goes to show that we all struggle with this "getting right with God" mentality sometimes. I certainly can't get right with God, that's why I put my hope in Christ. It is a relief, not a burden. He carried the burden.

I was an alcoholic too. I drank every day. I was at the bottom. Got very depressed and anxious, had to quit my job, many hospital visits, AA, ECT, drugs, therapy, the works. Without God I would have killed myself years ago. I was so deep in despair. But I cried to Him. I didn't know it, but He carried me. Depression is certainly not a stranger. One might say that I'm still at the bottom since I don't have a job (disability pension), no wife or children either, but I have more peace of mind than I ever did. Christ is the way. And I know I stumble, and I know I will be wrong so many times, but He will be there.

I also hope that you don't take this as preaching. I know I'm not a preacher, and I know I'm not a better christian than any other. My intent was only to say: "I understand, at least I think I do, and here's what I think of God's grace". Please don't think I'm trying to debate you, I'm really not.

About others not understanding depression, there's only so much we can do about it. If they want to listen, we can tell them. Many have to suffer from it themselves or have a loved one suffer from it to really understand it. I think the key part is trying to not get frustrated over it. If someone doesn't understand, perhaps one day they will.

Said a prayer for you, brother. Hope to hear from you again.

Hi Tempura,

I appreciate your long, carefully worded post. I'm not offended at all, though I must admit that I'm a bit more conservative in my faith. I completely understand about grace (Ephesians 2:8) and I also understand that works alone won't save me.

On the other hand, I also know that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26) and that we are commanded to strive to try to be like Christ in our walk, even more as we mature. Jesus also said "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?". That means to do as much of what the Bible says as we possibly can.

The Bible also says "So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." (Revelation 3:16).

In other words, we're either all in or we're in big trouble.

Like you, I'm also not trying to be argumentative in any way. I appreciate your words, your prayers and your kindness very much. They are all very comforting and I'll definitely take some of them to heart.

I just become a bit concerned when I see scripture about "grace" being used, because some (not necessarily you) look at that scripture as a "free pass" to not worry about the consequences of sin. Using it too freely doesn't always encourage us to pray for the strength to stop what we're doing and the Lord ask for forgiveness.

John 3:16 is another scripture that's used freely by many Christians without explaining "the rest of the story".

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Pretty common, right? The problem is that Satan himself also believes in Jesus, knows him personally, and we all know how that story ends, right?

If people would take the time to simply read the book of John all the way down to verse 36 they'll see the following: “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not OBEY the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Do you see what I'm saying?

Are we saved by grace? Absolutely! But we still have to sincerely try to obey, which is why I'm so upset and frustrated by my disabilities.

Once again, thank you so much for you kind words and prayer.

SuperDuck

 

[Leon C. Essex]

Leon,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I really appreciate your prayer.

What most people don't understand is that if I miss church, the odds are very good that I'm not working the next day or week, either.

It also troubles me greatly that I'm not being the best example for my son when I don't go. I don't want him to look at me having an illness as a "free pass" for him not to go, if he's able. Once we start missing service regularly it becomes easier to continue to do so, that's why there are times when I have to force myself to go, no matter how I feel.

Sometimes I'll actually feel better when I force myself to go. I'll feel like I'm getting back on track again and it's uplifting. On the other hand, there are times when my OCD kicks in and I'll have an overwhelming feeling of having said or done something wrong, even though I didn't do anything wrong! It can stretch on and become tormenting for days or sometimes weeks. It will disrupt my sleep, too. I'll wake up in the middle of the night at times and it will instantly pop into my head.

There've been a few times where I've approached someone I thought I'd offended to apologize and they won't even remember the conversation, or if they do, they never noticed anything I said or did as being inappropriate, yet in my mind it was some kind of tragedy. It makes me very hesitant to keep putting myself in those situations, but I know that I have to keep trying.

It's so hard. :-(

Anyhow, thanks again.

SuperDuck

Hi Superduck,
Thank you for responding. Some of what you describe is very familiar to me. I'm the pastor of a small fellowship, and my closest friend in the church has OCD. I know of his many battles (some very similar to those you describe) .... particularly, that torment of self-accusation. It can be totally debilitating, at times. I have the highest respect and regard for those in that situation. I believe that people like him and yourself are genuinely sacrificial in the church context - it can be a mountain to climb just to get there. And the faithfulness of heart is extraordinary - even at those times when it is impossible to attend.

I'm reading your post and I see that deep commitment. Some people can take or leave church - but it costs you when you go, and it costs you when you don't. I have people like that in my fellowship, but my dream is to have many more!

 

[Tempura]

Do you see what I'm saying?

SuperDuck

I do. My faith is a little different, as you noticed, and as I noticed you to be more conservative too. I'm looking at bible verses to "counter" - not to deny - some of those verses you gave me, but that would lead to debate, and I wish for no such thing. I don't believe that the words of Christ contradict themselves, but reveal different sides and deepen His wisdom. Many of His words reveal our hypocrisy, and I'm no different.

We can see works very differently. "Works" can become a habit, they can be spontaneous, they can be something that we do when an opportunity presents itself or they can be something we plan for a long time. We can do some of them grudgingly, some of them with joy. We can do them for love, or we can do them to be "better" christians, to reassure ourselves. I hope that whatever the little "works" I do, come out of pure heart, with joy, never for the fear of condemnation, or to "earn" something. I also know that I have not done many good things I should have. It is true, that many people - including me - can look for those "free passes", but I hope to be honest in my search nonetheless. All of it just shows how God is God, and how I am just a human, and how easy it is to twist scripture the way we want it. So I think of myself as a child, who just steps into the dark (which is actually light) with his faith and puts his hope into Christ. Not to get excuses for my bad actions and life, but to free myself of its power. Not to use Christ as an excuse, but to put my useless bad life in front of Him.

None of these things are simple, but then again they are - simple people can understand Christ, even He praised Father for how He chose to reveal His gospel. This is why I mentioned the criminal on the cross. I would assume He was simple, and all his works were probably mostly bad.

I do understand what you said. Even though I believe in a little different manner, I understand. And it is not my place to argue about it. Your faith is yours and you serve God, why should I argue with that? I wrote all of this so you could probably understand better where I come from. Not to say "you are wrong", oh no, I probably have a lot to learn from you, but just to explain myself, as you did.

This led me to Romans 12: "Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.". That is something I often need to remind myself of. Because if I don't, I start saying and doing things that may lead people away from Christ, and I become more angry and bitter as well.

About your disabilities, I understand your frustration. But you know where your heart is. You did not choose to become depressed. Have mercy on yourself, as you would have on any of your loved ones, if they were suffering from the same things. This I know about depression: we judge ourselves so harshly. We see condemnation where there could be hope and love - and this is not about the possible difference in our beliefs, it's about how we see things. I knew this when I didn't even believe yet. You know this as well, in fact there are threads right now on these boards about self-hatred. While depression is in itself very real, it can and will feed us lies, in addition to draining so much of our energy. You do what you can, and if you need to get help, get it. If you need money for doctors and such, I can spare a little. Many people here struggle with money, and decide not to get help because of it.

In any case, thank you for writing what's on your mind. Many people might see themselves in what you're going through. That's one of the reasons I like long threads (even everyone writing long posts always say how they're sorry about it, hah). God bless you.

 

[Jeshu]

Please don't let Church stop you from having communion with God and standing in the great assembly praising God. Faith in God doesn't have to do anything but stay in the truth of God. So if physically you can't attend, spiritually you can! To be in God and God in you is an experience that transcends a single Church, and worships God together with all in the great assembly upstairs.

Please understand that when we are ill then we don't go to Church either. Depression is very much an illness.

Personally I haven't been regularly to Church for many years. My problem is that I get triggered by Church and my depression gets much worse when I attend the worship services. However I make sure I attend spiritually. I worship God with song and with my inner being. It is amazing how beautiful such times with God have become for me - sometimes He simply takes me up into His glory worshipping Him like that. He certainly has taken my feelings of insecurity, fear and guilt with regards to the Church away. Now I hope He can teach me not to be triggered by Church, though worshipping Him is nowhere near as good as doing it at home, I'm very curious how He will teach me. Just thinking of Church makes me sad let alone going there.

 

[SuperDuck]

Hi Superduck,
Thank you for responding. Some of what you describe is very familiar to me. I'm the pastor of a small fellowship, and my closest friend in the church has OCD. I know of his many battles (some very similar to those you describe) .... particularly, that torment of self-accusation. It can be totally debilitating, at times. I have the highest respect and regard for those in that situation. I believe that people like him and yourself are genuinely sacrificial in the church context - it can be a mountain to climb just to get there. And the faithfulness of heart is extraordinary - even at those times when it is impossible to attend.

I'm reading your post and I see that deep commitment. Some people can take or leave church - but it costs you when you go, and it costs you when you don't. I have people like that in my fellowship, but my dream is to have many more!

Sir,

You have no idea how much your post means to me. To even hear that someone else having similar traits makes me very sad for them, but also a bit of relief knowing that it's not just me.

May the Lord bless you, my new friend.

Joe

 

[SuperDuck]

I do. My faith is a little different, as you noticed, and as I noticed you to be more conservative too. I'm looking at bible verses to "counter" - not to deny - some of those verses you gave me, but that would lead to debate, and I wish for no such thing. I don't believe that the words of Christ contradict themselves, but reveal different sides and deepen His wisdom. Many of His words reveal our hypocrisy, and I'm no different.

I understand. I wish no debate either. I know that you have good intent, and the scripture I shared wasn't only for you. That's just something that really concerns me because although I'm in complete, 100% agreement, I've also seen many use it to fall into complacency, and I don't think either of us want that either, right?

We can see works very differently. "Works" can become a habit, they can be spontaneous, they can be something that we do when an opportunity presents itself or they can be something we plan for a long time. We can do some of them grudgingly, some of them with joy. We can do them for love, or we can do them to be "better" Christians, to reassure ourselves. I hope that whatever the little "works" I do, come out of pure heart, with joy, never for the fear of condemnation, or to "earn" something. I also know that I have not done many good things I should have. It is true, that many people - including me - can look for those "free passes", but I hope to be honest in my search nonetheless. All of it just shows how God is God, and how I am just a human, and how easy it is to twist scripture the way we want it. So I think of myself as a child, who just steps into the dark (which is actually light) with his faith and puts his hope into Christ. Not to get excuses for my bad actions and life, but to free myself of its power. Not to use Christ as an excuse, but to put my useless bad life in front of Him.

I understand what you're saying.

This led me to Romans 12: "Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.". That is something I often need to remind myself of. Because if I don't, I start saying and doing things that may lead people away from Christ, and I become more angry and bitter as well.

I'm the same way. Thank you for sharing that scripture.

About your disabilities, I understand your frustration. But you know where your heart is. You did not choose to become depressed. Have mercy on yourself, as you would have on any of your loved ones, if they were suffering from the same things. This I know about depression: we judge ourselves so harshly. We see condemnation where there could be hope and love - and this is not about the possible difference in our beliefs, it's about how we see things. I knew this when I didn't even believe yet. You know this as well, in fact there are threads right now on these boards about self-hatred. While depression is in itself very real, it can and will feed us lies, in addition to draining so much of our energy.

You're absolutely right, I do need to stop being so hard on myself.

I'm usually the "listener" when people need an ear, are hurting, need advice, etc and I try to be very compassionate of the difficulties of others - even if I don't understand. That goes back to the book of Galations again. Chapter 6:2 reads "Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." On the other hand, I haven't been very kind to myself. It's been very hard not having many, or any, others that I can share my own burdens with. That's a very big source of my frustrations.

You do what you can, and if you need to get help, get it. If you need money for doctors and such, I can spare a little. Many people here struggle with money, and decide not to get help because of it.

God bless you for your kind offer, my new friend. That's very generous of you. Fortunately, I have medical care through the VA.

In any case, thank you for writing what's on your mind. Many people might see themselves in what you're going through. That's one of the reasons I like long threads (even everyone writing long posts always say how they're sorry about it, hah). God bless you.

Although I'd never wish this on anyone, at least not long term (there have been a few naysayers that have brought out the worst in me), I hope that anyone that does read it understands that they're not alone. The feeling of isolation or as it was so eloquently put in a recent TV show, "how do I tell someone my brain is broke?", is the worst. The feeling of being all alone, isolated, different, less of a man, etc is awful. The worst.

Again, God bless you and thank you so much for your encouragement.

Joe

 

[Press On]

Hello Joe,
I understand your pain & frustrations very well. If I feel confident about going to church, which is rare, my wife does everything she can to talk me out of it 'cause she knows there's a 99% probability I'm going to crash. I am a friendly & pleasant person to be around and converse easily (usually) but this belies the fact that I am uncomfortable in groups. I've tried and tried not to be the square peg attempting to fit in the round hole but it just doesn't work. It's a manifestation of severe chemical imbalance depression.

So.....I do what I CAN do. I have 2 pastor friends I hold myself accountable to. I recently volunteered to help at the local food bank run by my wife's church (Methodist) which doesn't sound like a big deal but it was a HUGE step for me. I also meet for breakfast once a month with the men's group (mostly retirees like me) from her church. Otherwise I'm quite the loner & keep to myself.

I haven't totally been able to stop beating myself up but it's getting better. This depression forum is my church. I don't post all that much but I pray and try to encourage the people on here.

Yes, fellowship is encouraged in Hebrews; it's a component of the Christian life. But often for me it can be a negative in the depression battle. It makes me feel worse so I eliminate church from the picture at least for now.

God is well aware of my struggle. I do not feel convicted. Much of my time is spent deeply researching, digging into the Word and thinking about the Lord & learning to be still.

I am really glad that your testimony at church motivated 40 people to give some attention to depression & hopefully started some on their journey of seeking help and healing. You are a better man than me to share something so personal. I have learned to be very careful in sharing such things, especially with Christians because it usually leads to verbal, mental, psychological abuse and ostracism.


You have had some wonderful brothers in the Lord responding to you here. As you can see, they understand.

 

[Tempura]

I'm usually the "listener" when people need an ear, are hurting, need advice, etc and I try to be very compassionate of the difficulties of others - even if I don't understand. That goes back to the book of Galations again. Chapter 6:2 reads "Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." On the other hand, I haven't been very kind to myself. It's been very hard not having many, or any, others that I can share my own burdens with. That's a very big source of my frustrations.

That's so common amongst people with depression that you wouldn't even believe. Or perhaps you will, you have your own experiences about it as you said. Every place for depressed people I have went to, be it a hospital, group, you name it - many of the people there are like that. They say they listen to others, some even to the point of exhaustion, they might make it a figurative full-time job for themselves. I've even dated a couple ones. But when they are confronting their own problems, or even wanting to tell someone else, then it becomes difficult.

To some extent, I'm one of those people, hopefully now in a more healthy manner than before. I used to think that listening and helping others (in addition to being a generally good thing) was my way of processing my own depression, trying to deconstruct it and understand it, to come into terms with it. At the time I exhausted myself. I don't regret it, but I didn't get the miracle healing or enlightening that I hoped, or the comfort I thought I was giving others. My motivations were more often than not selfish. Anyway, I found that I could get people to open themselves up to me, and it seemed to help them. When I tried to open up myself, I felt absolutely useless. Either I put up the "I'm okay" charade or saved some of my rage ramblings for therapy sessions - and even there I did it in a way that didn't help me. For a long time I just rambled about how crappy I felt or why I drank like an idiot or abused prescription drugs. This is especially insane when many people might need just one person to talk to, and they can't seem to find one. I had them, plenty of them, and I just couldn't do anything good with it for the longest time.

It's funny, isn't it? When someone wants to get something out of his/her heart, we listen. We don't judge, and we tell the other one not to be ashamed, and try to comfort and encourage them. But when it's us, that's suddenly a whole another thing! The rules have changed! We are the incurable ones, we are ashamed for all the right reasons, we don't matter as much. If we can find anyone to listen to us, that is. If we can't, that's an ugly beast of its own.

The worst must be the third option which you have spoken of: people belittling you for trying to open up. Many times they just don't understand, but some people can be downright hostile. When one faces hostility when he/she is in need of help and comfort, that stuff just makes me rage. I can nowadays handle it, since I'm mostly a hermit, but it makes me angry for others.

I still ramble about these things, even though I've been familiar with them for 20 years. Depression, shame, guilt, all of this can be that hard to grasp.

Although I'd never wish this on anyone, at least not long term (there have been a few naysayers that have brought out the worst in me), I hope that anyone that does read it understands that they're not alone. The feeling of isolation or as it was so eloquently put in a recent TV show, "how do I tell someone my brain is broke?", is the worst. The feeling of being all alone, isolated, different, less of a man, etc is awful. The worst.

I'm sure many people lurk here, reading these forums, never typing a single post. If you've gotten a few us to react already, who knows how many people in total have gotten something out of it.

I will say this: without depression, without hitting rock bottom, I probably would have never searched for God the way I have. Not to boast, my ways are nothing to better men and women and God knows I stumble like a legless rabbit, but the point stands. I would have never cried for Him to help me with all my heart in my despair. I wouldn't have needed His help, or so I would've thought without all of this.

It is true, we're not alone. All of us have God, but we have each other as well.

 

[Press On]

Spot on,Tempura! Before retirement my work involved constant travel. I can't tell you how often acquaintances or even complete strangers (if no one was in earshot) polite small talk soon switched to sharing some really personal issues weighing on them.

Somehow they sensed a non-judgmental guy who was really listening without necessarily giving advice. If I sensed a receptiveness I would offer to pray with them and was never turned down. A few of these were tough bad *** type men.

One time I was in some small business office for some reason and after coming out of somebody's back office to reception the young secretary was crying. Without thinking I went over, knelt down, lightly patted her hand & said "whatever it is, it will pass". Her emotion visibly lessened and she thanked me. Then I turned & walked out, a bit shocked at what I had just done.

I mention these incidents because in my depressive tendancies I sometimes mutter to myself when I witness the coldness and meanness of folks, including other forums on this CF site how I "hate" people & I just want out. Then I am reminded of my own sins and want out even more.

Didn't mean to write a novel but your post really caught my attention & rang true with me. I always wondered "why me?" I guess sometimes sensitivity to other's pain is a by-product gift to depression sufferers with certain types of personalities. I began to see it as a precious gift from God rather than a mere curiousity.

 

[Tempura]

Didn't mean to write a novel but your post really caught my attention & rang true with me. I always wondered "why me?" I guess sometimes sensitivity to other's pain is a by-product gift to depression sufferers with certain types of personalities. I began to see it as a precious gift from God rather than a mere curiousity.

That's not a novel. I like longer stories and writings.

Indeed, that sensitivity can be a blessing. It may not benefit you personally in this world as much as others, but love is love - it's already its own benefit, and it's always spiritually rewarding to comfort others. I really liked your stories about the people you encountered. Encouraging. Happy for you and them.

I became very sensitive to other people's moods (usually negative ones) at a young age, there was alcohol and fighting in my family. I didn't mean to, but I started to learn little hints from my parents' behavior. Later I became more sensitive to people in general when I got depressed myself, if I wasn't too deep in it to feel anything. God can work in mysterious ways, and make something good out of something bad.