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As a child my parents raised me outside of religion. That doesn't mean I was raised a non-believer, what that means is that I was raised without a pre-cast (or pre-formed) foundation of what a "church" or faith was. I'll address 'why' in a moment, but for now I wish to fill in some other blanks.

My father was a firm believer in truth. He didn't believe in any churches, he said they were just men following other men who could scream louder or more effectively than anyone else, but he did believe in God. He always taught me to seek the truth. He said it was o.k. to be wrong, as long as one learned from it; but not o.k. to believe that wrong was o.k.

When I began to read the Bible at age eight, my Mom said if there was something I didn't understand, to ask God and He would explain it to me. so, that's what I did, and found out that the bible explains itself IF one allows it to do so. That is not to say that one does not require a guide or minister to under stand the deeper Spiritual knowledge, but for the basics, the Word does an excellent job of explaining itself....IF one permits it to do so. When I came to something I didn't understand, I'd ask my Mom, who would tell me not to worry bout it, that it would be explained in due time.

When I was seventeen i wrote a term paper for English Comp concerning Revelations. The paper recieved an 'A+' for the work, but an 'A-' for content because some of the things I wrote did not fit in with any current (of the time) understanding of theology, (and Yes, this was in a public school. I successfully argued my right to write it on the basis that papers concerning the occult were allowed and the occult fit the definition of 'religion', and yes, I also successfully argued that 'religion' was the creation of men).

What does this have to do with looking for a church? I'll explain in a bit.

My Father didn't follow any religion nor church because he viewed them all as hypocritical in view of Bible teaching. He said that it stood to reason that an entity of superior intellect and knowledge would hold to the truth 100%, and as the religions and churches of men CHOSE what they wanted to hold to and not hold to that he could not logically nor morally give them any credit.

So what does truth have to do with seeking a church? Well, that depends upon one's perspective. If one is seeking socialization, community, and the solace of being part of 'a bigger work' , then probably not much. But if one is truly seeking communion with God, one should start at the source. Find out what God teaches about his congregation, (look it up in the concordence), find out how God describes His church, its attributes and how it is identified, and above all ask God for His guidence.

How many times does the word truth, or words related to it appear in the Bible? Truth: 234, Truth's:2, Truly:41, True:81, Verily:111; for an overall total of 469 tmes. ONCE is enough for the arguement to be made that 'truth' is an important part of anyone's quest for God ... He does state that 'not one jot, nor tittle, nor word of his teaching shall pass away...' He also states that He is to be worshipped and sought in Truth, and that His Spirit is Truth.

It would seem that truth IS, or should be, an important part of anyone's quest for a congregation. That's my point of view. Do I recomend a church? Not at all; as my Mom said, its best to allow God to guide one in the direction He may, therefore God's purpose is served; not man's. Do I know where God's congregation is? Again, its best left to God to dothe guiding or calling, as its HIS plan and purpose. As I stated, God's Word definies itself IF men allow it to do so.








I
 
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DOF2011

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I agree that mankinds search for God should be based on truth and recently I have noticed an increase in people who believe in God not wanting to commit as it where to any church/religion as in my experience of preaching people say they see flaws in all denominations of churches etc I can only say that no matter what faith you follow be it Catholicism,Church of England,Adventist etc it has to be based on logical and scriptural truth.

In my humble opinion people see like in the second world war for example priests blessing troops etc which sort of smacks at hipocrasy when the fundamental bedrock of the Bible is not to kill your fellow brother.

I suppose one who chooses to sit down just with the bible and read it first before making a decision is doing exactly what God asks of us as one needs internal accurate knowledge to make their stand and a stand before God cannot just be based on someone elses stand/faith the person themselves must have faith or they are merely following a church/religion for names sake not because they have ultimate faith in their teachings.
 
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First off, your father was spot on. Seeking the truth is exactly how to do things. You even said Jesus is the spirit of truth so being led by the spirit of truth is where you need to be. Why is it needed to be taught at church year after year from one book? What you need is tutelage on how to contact God. Why would a father tell someone something and then expect one letter of lessons to be applied without his inspiration to his children by someone that is in the very same boat as you? No father would do that, and no father would stop talking to their children ever. So again you are correct. GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE!

Churches are meant for giving out what revelations and gifts God has given you and to be a place of instruction on HOW TO SPEAK TO GOD. After you can swallow the milk and pass on the meat, why do you need any instruction? The only thing you need from church when God takes over is to give out what he reveals to you! Setting a standard up of pouring out your heart to God and being refilled by the spirit of truth will be your lifeline and provide you with the direct link you need. That's called living by faith. Faith itself is a process. Going to God and getting YOUR revelations will allow YOUR bible to finish with YOUR third testament.

I will help any way the Lord allows. you can go to my website (*although it is under construction) (* my post count is not high enough. Please message me if you want the link!) for more on Faith. I found out after years of what I thought was stumbling down a dark and foggy path of finding a church that all that time, when I was alone with God praying and asking for guidance all that time I had my hand over the light. I was the one making me stumble. Direct revelation will trump watered down interpretation EVERY TIME!

I hope you continue to go to God one on one forever!
 
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Hi Ruicon,

I am impressed by the open-minded approach you and your parents adopt.
It reminds me of me many years ago, which is why I attach my testimony of how I found God!
You are right not to believe anyone who says they are right, just because they say so! Jesus himself warns that many who call Him "Lord etc" will be told "depart from me, I never knew you" ... anyone can talk the talk!

Jesus himself said:
"If I do not the works (the miracles) of my Father, believe me not"
(John 10:37)


God says he dwells in people that have received His Spirit, they are "gates", when I met such people I switched from intellectual belief to knowing there was somethging to be received!

I was brought up Anglican, but I only went because my dad wanted me to go, there was nothing inspiring there for me so when I left for University I stopped going. While there I started to consider the purpose of my life, and realised I didn't have one that satisfied me, "the world was my oyster", but there was no pearl! I tended to worry & had no answers, no fulfilling purpose, I no longer believed in my own ways.

When some people who obviously believed in the bible spoke to me I decided to investigate properly. I started going to various church meetings and was told to pray a “sinners prayer”, believing, and as such I was "a Christian". For the next 18 months I continued going to meetings and reading books by people considered to be "Christian leaders" to try and work out God's will for me, without success! All I got was opinions.

Then I met people who were not going to different churches and reading lots of books about God, they had a confidence and contentment I had not attained to, despite my efforts. I realised my relationship with God was mostly one-way, from me, not the daily, growing 2-way relationship they seemed to have.

They had received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (an unlearned prayer language that God leads his people in, cos only he knows his perfect will for us, it allows him to minister his grace & love to our hearts - 1 Cor. 14v2, 4; Jude 20-21). They also had other direct input and leading from God. After a while I realised I was getting nowhere spiritually so for the first time I actually prayed expecting God to *do* something... namely give me the same as them or whatever else I needed.

One evening I was alone in my room, not doubting or fearing, just believing God had said yes to me (because he could have no favourites), and wanting nothing more, I prayed and spoke in tongues and in the days that followed I realised I had the Life spoken of in the bible, whereas before I was trying to be something I was not!
Now I appreciate why things are the way they are, and more importantly, what life can be like.

I left the old churches because I could see they was as I was before, not as I wanted to be. The church I'm now in is like the one in the new testament, all members have the new Life, we have a unity I never found before. I now have contentment and fulfilling purpose that only the living God can give. I am now able to know God's thoughts and live according to His nature because I have His heart and mind through the Holy Spirit in me
.
 
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Sep 18, 2011
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First off, your father was spot on. Seeking the truth is exactly how to do things. You even said Jesus is the spirit of truth so being led by the spirit of truth is where you need to be. Why is it needed to be taught at church year after year from one book? What you need is tutelage on how to contact God. Why would a father tell someone something and then expect one letter of lessons to be applied without his inspiration to his children by someone that is in the very same boat as you? No father would do that, and no father would stop talking to their children ever. So again you are correct. GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE!

Churches are meant for giving out what revelations and gifts God has given you and to be a place of instruction on HOW TO SPEAK TO GOD. After you can swallow the milk and pass on the meat, why do you need any instruction? The only thing you need from church when God takes over is to give out what he reveals to you! Setting a standard up of pouring out your heart to God and being refilled by the spirit of truth will be your lifeline and provide you with the direct link you need. That's called living by faith. Faith itself is a process. Going to God and getting YOUR revelations will allow YOUR bible to finish with YOUR third testament.

I will help any way the Lord allows. you can go to my website (*although it is under construction) (* my post count is not high enough. Please message me if you want the link!) for more on Faith. I found out after years of what I thought was stumbling down a dark and foggy path of finding a church that all that time, when I was alone with God praying and asking for guidance all that time I had my hand over the light. I was the one making me stumble. Direct revelation will trump watered down interpretation EVERY TIME!

I hope you continue to go to God one on one forever!


The congregation offers community and support as well as reinforcement of God's teachings and guidence as well as a forum in which to question that which one does not understand; yet God works with individuals on an individual basis, but never out of the context of the congregation as being one.

God instructs men in how to approach Him, he also explains in which context He will respond and also in which context he won't.

In choosing a congregation one must do as one would do in seeking truth; Prove ALL things...
 
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Hi Ruicon,

I am impressed by the open-minded approach you and your parents adopt.
It reminds me of me many years ago, which is why I attach my testimony of how I found God!
You are right not to believe anyone who says they are right, just because they say so! Jesus himself warns that many who call Him "Lord etc" will be told "depart from me, I never knew you" ... anyone can talk the talk!

Jesus himself said:
"If I do not the works (the miracles) of my Father, believe me not"
(John 10:37)

God says he dwells in people that have received His Spirit, they are "gates", when I met such people I switched from intellectual belief to knowing there was somethging to be received!

I was brought up Anglican, but I only went because my dad wanted me to go, there was nothing inspiring there for me so when I left for University I stopped going. While there I started to consider the purpose of my life, and realised I didn't have one that satisfied me, "the world was my oyster", but there was no pearl! I tended to worry & had no answers, no fulfilling purpose, I no longer believed in my own ways.

When some people who obviously believed in the bible spoke to me I decided to investigate properly. I started going to various church meetings and was told to pray a “sinners prayer”, believing, and as such I was "a Christian". For the next 18 months I continued going to meetings and reading books by people considered to be "Christian leaders" to try and work out God's will for me, without success! All I got was opinions.

Then I met people who were not going to different churches and reading lots of books about God, they had a confidence and contentment I had not attained to, despite my efforts. I realised my relationship with God was mostly one-way, from me, not the daily, growing 2-way relationship they seemed to have.

They had received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (an unlearned prayer language that God leads his people in, cos only he knows his perfect will for us, it allows him to minister his grace & love to our hearts - 1 Cor. 14v2, 4; Jude 20-21). They also had other direct input and leading from God. After a while I realised I was getting nowhere spiritually so for the first time I actually prayed expecting God to *do* something... namely give me the same as them or whatever else I needed.

One evening I was alone in my room, not doubting or fearing, just believing God had said yes to me (because he could have no favourites), and wanting nothing more, I prayed and spoke in tongues and in the days that followed I realised I had the Life spoken of in the bible, whereas before I was trying to be something I was not!
Now I appreciate why things are the way they are, and more importantly, what life can be like.

I left the old churches because I could see they was as I was before, not as I wanted to be. The church I'm now in is like the one in the new testament, all members have the new Life, we have a unity I never found before. I now have contentment and fulfilling purpose that only the living God can give. I am now able to know God's thoughts and live according to His nature because I have His heart and mind through the Holy Spirit in me.


....hhmmm, 1Cor 14 v 22 comes to mind...



I often wonder... when so many have the Spirit why it is that He said the whole world is deceived...

...I also wonder if there are so many who know the truth; why is it we go down to war, considering; WHAT is to be gained by truth waring with itself?

I also wonder what purpose debate serves, when , if so many KNOW the truth; what is there to debate?

BTW... my Dad and Mom never were open minded concerning truth...neither am I.
 
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....hhmmm, 1Cor 14 v 22 comes to mind...
Yes, God in his infinite wisdom used tongues to introduce the ascended Christ to Israel generally in Acts 2.. and onward.

Some religious people will say "I'm already a believer, I don't need to hear tongues", but they are only a believer in the modern intelectual sense , not the original where believers received his spirit with the signs following (different signs ant different times - John 7:39, Mark 15:16-20, Acts) ... all the believers were members of the church that Jesus set up in Acts 2.

I often wonder... when so many have the Spirit why it is that He said the whole world is deceived...
I'm sorry if I burst your bubble but sadly most people are not open-mindedly seeking after the truth of God like you.

For the past 25 years I and friends have been out-and-about in the highways and byways, giving out leaflets telling people about the need and benefiits of receiving God's Spirits ... few even want to listen and of those only a few want to act.

"light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19)

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God ..." (2 Tim 3:1-4)


The attitude is "I don't want to know now, I want to chase my desires... maybe if I fail I'll consider "God" "

Maybe a few have had bad experience with "religion" and tar us all with the same brush, but more often the failings of religion (the crusades, child abuse, financial irregularity etc) is just an excuse not to listen.

A friend of mine remembers how after he received the Spirit, (and going from not knowing God to knowing God and not even wanting alcohol, which before was a daily part of his life) he went into the local big church on Sunday thinking surely they will want to know about this, this is what everyone needs! .... he was shown the door.


I also wonder what purpose debate serves, when , if so many KNOW the truth; what is there to debate?
I'm in fellowship with many people who know the truth, we dn't have debates, we have fellowship where we share the things God is doing in our lives. Debate comes because although Jesus only set up one living church, many other alternatives have sprung up since and their followers only know "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:3-4), a words-only gospel ...

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" (2 Tim. 3:5)


The modern "denominations" arose during and since "The Reformation" as people saw excesses and error in Catholicism but different poeople made different corrections, now they all argue and debate with each other!
 
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Yes, God in his infinite wisdom used tongues to introduce the ascended Christ to Israel generally in Acts 2.. and onward.

Yes He did....every man HEARD his neighbor in his tongue... as if each were speaking in the other's tongue.... IF one pays attention one will note that the miracle was not in the SPEAKING but in the HEARING. If I'm not mistaken I think it was Paul who said he would that every disciple have the gift of tongues, but that each was gifted according to that which God chose , and that no one gft over ruled nor out shadowed the others. I don't have the exact verses in front of me, but if you don't recall them I'm sure I can present them forthwith...

Some religious people will say "I'm already a believer, I don't need to hear tongues", but they are only a believer in the modern intelectual sense , not the original where believers received his spirit with the signs following (different signs ant different times - John 7:39, Mark 15:16-20, Acts) ... all the believers were members of the church that Jesus set up in Acts 2.

I've heard tongues...and spoken them. When I was younger I could understand, read and write and speak in the German tongue quite well.

Tongues are languages.... of men. If one proves instead of assumes, taking the word of men over that of God; one quickly finds out which is accurate and which is not.

I'm sorry if I burst your bubble but sadly most people are not open-mindedly seeking after the truth of God like you.

I'm not open mindedly seeking it either. I' very close minded when it comes to truth.

For the past 25 years I and friends have been out-and-about in the highways and byways, giving out leaflets telling people about the need and benefiits of receiving God's Spirits ... few even want to listen and of those only a few want to act.

Its been my experience that if one speaks according to that which God teaches one quickly develops an attentive audience, whether it is the spoken or written Word being evidenced. I don't post in all venues under 'rubicon...', I use others depending on the venue and circumstances and whom I'm speaking to; but I can't say as I've ever had a problem being listened to. Whether those listening hear or not is none of my concern; God calls whom He will. I merely seek to prick the ears of those who may have the desire for something more than the adulterated , regurgitated mish mash offered as truth by the world's religions....if God has put it in them to seek Him they will hear and understand; if not...so be it...it is as it is.

"light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19)

'deeds' or 'hearts'....?

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God ..." (2 Tim 3:1-4)


The attitude is "I don't want to know now, I want to chase my desires... maybe if I fail I'll consider "God" "

...the term 'opinions' can be interchanged with 'desires' and still retain the definition, yet be more accurate in that the statement would then cover the entire spectrum of human nature instead of only a smidge of it...

Maybe a few have had bad experience with "religion" and tar us all with the same brush, but more often the failings of religion (the crusades, child abuse, financial irregularity etc) is just an excuse not to listen.

....mmmm, no..., I think they tar you ALL because they HEAR the SAME THING and see NO results from all the hubbub. God isn't trying to 'save the world' right now...WHY would He end the lesson before it is complete? WHO would learn? Man hasn't learnt anything in the thousands of years he's been following his own EGO(s)...why would he do so suddenly NOW in THIS age?

Religion has 100% missed the boat on what God is doing in this world. RELIGION has had its chance MANY times over to right the wrongs and follow the truth, ... and each time it has chosen (a) MAN over that truth. Now, RELIGION has its final chance to PROVE itself to be that which it claims to be and usher in the age it proclaims to represent and seek....

...each day the results of its ever increasing efforts are evidenced in the news on the internet, in print, and on t.v. Seems to me its business as usual...


A friend of mine remembers how after he received the Spirit, (and going from not knowing God to knowing God and not even wanting alcohol, which before was a daily part of his life) he went into the local big church on Sunday thinking surely they will want to know about this, this is what everyone needs! .... he was shown the door.

...Seems the Spirit would have stepped up and challenged the minister doing the 'showing'. I recall a non denominational minister who once tried to 'show me the door'..in PUBLIC... (one should always choose the venue in which one wishes to present a challenge wisely, otherwise one may suffer a rather embarrassing situation of wearing one's own excrement on one's face in front of a rather large audience),... do I say this of myself? Not at all, had not God instilled in me the desire for and granted me understanding of truth I would never have been able to accept the challenges presented by 'priests, ministers, reverends, or any other man of the cloth' and succeeded in turning the tables on them.

So when you say your friend was 'shown the door'...perhaps it was due to his own misconceptions instead of those - of those - to whom he spoke.



I'm in fellowship with many people who know the truth, we dn't have debates, we have fellowship where we share the things God is doing in our lives. Debate comes because although Jesus only set up one living church, many other alternatives have sprung up since and their followers only know "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:3-4), a words-only gospel ...

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" (2 Tim. 3:5)


So why do you debate me? Everything I present in the way of God's teachings can be proven in the Bible, should one CHOOSE to do so.

The modern "denominations" arose during and since "The Reformation" as people saw excesses and error in Catholicism but different poeople made different corrections, now they all argue and debate with each other!

Ohhh noooo....these denominations have been around for thousands of yeas. One merely has to understand and follow the esoteric heraldry to figure that out.


 
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First off, your father was spot on. Seeking the truth is exactly how to do things. You even said Jesus is the spirit of truth so being led by the spirit of truth is where you need to be. Why is it needed to be taught at church year after year from one book? What you need is tutelage on how to contact God.

I had some other thoughts on this so I added to it...

Christ states that the Bible is worthy for ALL teaching and instruction and reproof, so you propose that man is wiser than God...?

Christ gives instructions refarding HOW to contact and communicate with God, does he not? Are you proposing that HIS instructions are inadequate?




Why would a father tell someone something and then expect one letter of lessons to be applied without his inspiration to his children by someone that is in the very same boat as you?

' In the same boat as me '...? At least I KNOW TRUTH and CHRIST are inseparable...aparently most " Christians " do not recognize them as being in the same realm of thought....

No father would do that, and no father would stop talking to their children ever. So again you are correct. GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE!

Churches are meant for giving out what revelations and gifts God has given you and to be a place of instruction on HOW TO SPEAK TO GOD.

Churches are creations of evil and men used to control / enslave the minds of men, so they DO NOT seek nor learn TRUTH.

After you can swallow the milk and pass on the meat, why do you need any instruction? The only thing you need from church when God takes over is to give out what he reveals to you!

If God is revealing it to one, why would one need a Church to discern for one?

Setting a standard up of pouring out your heart to God and being refilled by the spirit of truth will be your lifeline and provide you with the direct link you need. That's called living by faith. Faith itself is a process. Going to God and getting YOUR revelations will allow YOUR bible to finish with YOUR third testament.

I will help any way the Lord allows. you can go to my website (*although it is under construction) (* my post count is not high enough. Please message me if you want the link!) for more on Faith. I found out after years of what I thought was stumbling down a dark and foggy path of finding a church that all that time, when I was alone with God praying and asking for guidance all that time I had my hand over the light. I was the one making me stumble. Direct revelation will trump watered down interpretation EVERY TIME!

I hope you continue to go to God one on one forever!

.... I think I'll stick with what God teaches in the Bible as opposed to the sayings of a man / men.... EVEN if doing so condems me, at least I'll know I am condemed of TRUTH as opposed to imaginations / opinions.
 
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Well if you want truth, i suggest searching amongst the evangelical churches. They place a very high emphasis on living directly from the bible. All of their beliefs are based solely on the bible and not tradition.

...Why not suggest the Bible?...Why the beliefs of men?
 
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