Truth of the Present Truth

[Cribstyl]

Wow. So many years and this is the first simple explanation that made sense. God bless you brother

You adopted this story that the word "were" was added but that word is not what establishes what is being said in Lu16:16...(you know better than that).

He did'nt explain away what (heōs )"until" and (apo tote)"since that time" applies to in that verse.


The law g3551νόμος nomos

and g2532καί kai

the prophets g4396προφήτης prophētēs

[were]until g2193ἕως heōs

John: g2491Ἰωάννης Iōannēs

sinceg575ἀπό apo

thattime g5119τότε tote

the kingdom g932βασιλεία basileia

of God g2316θεός theos

is preached, g2097εὐαγγελίζω euaggelizō

and g2532καί kai

every man g3956πᾶς pas

presseth g971βιάζω biazō

into g1519εἰς eis

it. g846αὐτός autos

 

[Stryder06]

You adopted this story that the word "were" was added but that word is not what establishes what is being said in Lu16:16...(you know better than that).

He did'nt explain away what (heōs )"until" and (apo tote)"since that time" applies to in that verse.


The law g3551νόμος nomos

and g2532καί kai

the prophets g4396προφήτης prophētēs

[were]until g2193ἕως heōs

John: g2491Ἰωάννης Iōannēs

sinceg575ἀπό apo

thattime g5119τότε tote

the kingdom g932βασιλεία basileia

of God g2316θεός theos

is preached, g2097εὐαγγελίζω euaggelizō

and g2532καί kai

every man g3956πᾶς pas

presseth g971βιάζω biazō

into g1519εἰς eis

it. g846αὐτός autos

I wasn't worried about what word was used to say what Crib. It was the over all message of what people were trying to say that verse meant. The law and the prophets could not have come to an end at John because Christ, after His resurrection took His disciples right back to the law and the prophets. All brother Revelation did was help make that clear. That's all. If you think the law and prophets were done away with, then why did Christ teach His disciples from those very books?

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Yea, no worries, who needs context......whatever keyword sounds clever connects

Those 2 text are saying two different things. You are so wrong, and your tactic are dangerous. Luke 16:16 is explaining that Christ came to "preach"(the kingdom of God) vs what the law and the prophets preached.

Matt 11:13 Is explaining that the Law and the Prophets, were prophecies that are now being fufilled beginning with John.


Who is this new guy????

To answer in reverse order.

Who am I? Indeed, I am a "new man" [Eph 4:4; Col 3:10], as promised by Christ Jesus, a "brand plucked out of the fire" [Zec 3:2] and "called [me] by his grace" [Gal 1:5] and "called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord" [1 Cr 1:9] and "called us for to preach the gospel" [Acts 16:0]. So I am "sent forth by the Holy Ghost" [Acts 13:4] and HE having "sent forth the Spirit of his Son into [my] heart, crying, Abba, Father." [Gal 4:6;para] to "to call them that were bidden to the wedding" [Mat 22:3] and to "teach all nations" [Matthew 28:19] and "having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people" [Revelation 14:6], a "repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in." [Isa 58:12], commanded to "cry aloud and spare not" [Isa 58:1] and to "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils" [Mat 10:8] and to fulfill the comission given to the "remnant" [Rev 12:17], which is the preaching of the 3 Angels Messages [Revelation 14:6-12]...but even moreso let us consider the "man CHRIST JESUS..." [1 Tim 2:5]

Until...

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. Matthew 11:13

panteV gar oi profhtai kai o nomoV ewV iwannou proefhteusan Matthew 11:13 Grk Trn Stephens 1550 TR

The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

o nomoV kai oi profhtai ews iwannou apo tote h basileia tou qeou euaggelizetai kai paV eiV authn biazetai Luke 16:16 Grk Trn Stephens 1550 TR

That which is pointed out originally about Luke 16:16 was that the word [were] is not actually present in the Greek, which can be seen above, and again in the English KJV, as any word not actually present in the Greek texts is so represented as being added by the translators by being placed inside brackets []. This was not the main point being addressed, but something to consider overall, and that the reading of Luke was to "follow" after the example of Matthew [notice the context of both passages, Matthew 11:14 continues and points out John "Elias, which was for to come..." and Luke does the same in vs 16:16, saying "John"; and both passages in context are speaking about "the Kingdom", namely Matthew 11:12 and Luke 16:16 and both mentioning "the law and the prophets". How then are these verses different?].

The word "until", present in both texts, was addressed in another manner [namely the first and second advent perspectives].

The word "until" in the Greek is "ἕως" or Grk Trn "heōs":

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

This word "until" was not avoided, but addressed in another manner, namely by stating,

"There are a great many passages in scripture, which are the "law and the prophets" that prophesied about CHRIST JESUS in HIS First Advent...

...these are they which these passages are speaking about...

...yet there are a great many that also Prophesy about HIS Second Advent...

...and they continue to point to that great event..."

The "law and the prophets" indeed were speaking and prophesying about the First Advent of Christ Jesus, which John was heralding. Hence, the "until". Since those things were being fulfilled as prophesied, there was coming a time where there was no more need to prophesy about the First Advent, for John [that "Elias, which was for to come"] was fulfilling the mission given to Him [Mat 3:3; Mrk 1:3; Luk 3:4; Jhn 1:23], that GOD [YHWH the SON] was manifest in the flesh, the very "Lamb" who taketh way the sin of the world [Jhn 1:29; 1 Tim 3:16]:

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3

Keywords are very important in scripture, as is context...For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: Isaiah 28:10

The context of the previous material, namely that of 2 Peter 1:12 was also addressed:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7560582/#post57501991

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12

However, for the sake of going over the material a little more indepth, please look with me, ok?

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:4

... etc...

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

What was the "present truth" that Peter wanted the Christians to know? That there were and still are "precious promises". What are these promises? That JESUS CHRIST is coming again in HIS Second Advent, the "blessed hope", that HE has given us the power by HIS HOLY SPIRIT to overcome temptation [as JESUS had] and sin [transgression of the law; 1 John 3:4] in our lives and to live according to commandments of GOD [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6], that we, like JESUS, will also be transfigured, as JESUS had been, and we shall be with those who were once Dead and Raised, or Translated alive. Moses [himself representing the Law and those who have died and fell asleep, and will be raised at the Last Day] and Elijah [himself representing the Prophets and those who will be translated alive at the Second Advent] will be with CHRIST JESUS, glorified. So like JESUS, of which it was said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." [Mat 17:5; 2 Pet 1:17] it will thus be said to us, "Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." [Matthew 25:23].

The "Everlasting Gospel" of Revelation 14:6-12, our very "present truth", does indeed remind us of those promises and presents them as being fulfilled and about to be fulfilled, and reiterates the Second Advent, along with Saving Grace and Obedience to GOD. Therefore the "law and the prophets" are still speaking and prophesying to this very day about these events taking place and about to take place, just as they had done for the First Advent. There was an "Elijah" message for then, and so too now.

 

[Cribstyl]

To answer in reverse order.

Who am I? Indeed, I am a "new man" [Eph 4:4; Col 3:10], as promised by Christ Jesus, a "brand plucked out of the fire" [Zec 3:2] and "called [me] by his grace" [Gal 1:5] and "called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord" [1 Cr 1:9] and "called us for to preach the gospel" [Acts 16:0]. So I am "sent forth by the Holy Ghost" [Acts 13:4] and HE having "sent forth the Spirit of his Son into [my] heart, crying, Abba, Father." [Gal 4:6;para] to "to call them that were bidden to the wedding" [Mat 22:3] and to "teach all nations" [Matthew 28:19] and "having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people" [Revelation 14:6], a "repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in." [Isa 58:12], commanded to "cry aloud and spare not" [Isa 58:1] and to "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils" [Mat 10:8] and to fulfill the comission given to the "remnant" [Rev 12:17], which is the preaching of the 3 Angels Messages [Revelation 14:6-12]...but even moreso let us consider the "man CHRIST JESUS..." [1 Tim 2:5]

Until...

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. Matthew 11:13

panteV gar oi profhtai kai o nomoV ewV iwannou proefhteusan Matthew 11:13 Grk Trn Stephens 1550 TR

The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

o nomoV kai oi profhtai ews iwannou apo tote h basileia tou qeou euaggelizetai kai paV eiV authn biazetai Luke 16:16 Grk Trn Stephens 1550 TR

That which is pointed out originally about Luke 16:16 was that the word [were] is not actually present in the Greek, which can be seen above, and again in the English KJV, as any word not actually present in the Greek texts is so represented as being added by the translators by being placed inside brackets []. This was not the main point being addressed, but something to consider overall, and that the reading of Luke was to "follow" after the example of Matthew [notice the context of both passages, Matthew 11:14 continues and points out John "Elias, which was for to come..." and Luke does the same in vs 16:16, saying "John"; and both passages in context are speaking about "the Kingdom", namely Matthew 11:12 and Luke 16:16 and both mentioning "the law and the prophets". How then are these verses different?].

The word "until", present in both texts, was addressed in another manner [namely the first and second advent perspectives].

The word "until" in the Greek is "ἕως" or Grk Trn "heōs":

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

This word "until" was not avoided, but addressed in another manner, namely by stating,

"There are a great many passages in scripture, which are the "law and the prophets" that prophesied about CHRIST JESUS in HIS First Advent...

...these are they which these passages are speaking about...

...yet there are a great many that also Prophesy about HIS Second Advent...

...and they continue to point to that great event..."

The "law and the prophets" indeed were speaking and prophesying about the First Advent of Christ Jesus, which John was heralding. Hence, the "until". Since those things were being fulfilled as prophesied, there was coming a time where there was no more need to prophesy about the First Advent, for John [that "Elias, which was for to come"] was fulfilling the mission given to Him [Mat 3:3; Mrk 1:3; Luk 3:4; Jhn 1:23], that GOD [YHWH the SON] was manifest in the flesh, the very "Lamb" who taketh way the sin of the world [Jhn 1:29; 1 Tim 3:16]:

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3

Keywords are very important in scripture, as is context...For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: Isaiah 28:10

The context of the previous material, namely that of 2 Peter 1:12 was also addressed:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7560582/#post57501991

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12

However, for the sake of going over the material a little more indepth, please look with me, ok?

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:4

... etc...

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

What was the "present truth" that Peter wanted the Christians to know? That there were and still are "precious promises". What are these promises? That JESUS CHRIST is coming again in HIS Second Advent, the "blessed hope", that HE has given us the power by HIS HOLY SPIRIT to overcome temptation [as JESUS had] and sin [transgression of the law; 1 John 3:4] in our lives and to live according to commandments of GOD [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6], that we, like JESUS, will also be transfigured, as JESUS had been, and we shall be with those who were once Dead and Raised, or Translated alive. Moses [himself representing the Law and those who have died and fell asleep, and will be raised at the Last Day] and Elijah [himself representing the Prophets and those who will be translated alive at the Second Advent] will be with CHRIST JESUS, glorified. So like JESUS, of which it was said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." [Mat 17:5; 2 Pet 1:17] it will thus be said to us, "Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." [Matthew 25:23].

The "Everlasting Gospel" of Revelation 14:6-12, our very "present truth", does indeed remind us of those promises and presents them as being fulfilled and about to be fulfilled, and reiterates the Second Advent, along with Saving Grace and Obedience to GOD. Therefore the "law and the prophets" are still speaking and prophesying to this very day about these events taking place and about to take place, just as they had done for the First Advent. There was an "Elijah" message for then, and so too now.

I guess you win.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

I guess you win.

The goal indeed is not to "win", but rather to win souls to the truth by the preaching of the Word, so that ones faith in GOD and HIS salvation will be increased, and the love of the truth be manifested in our lives.

So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Knowing the Truth sets us free...please study with us yet longer Cribstyl.

 

[Cribstyl]

The goal indeed is not to "win", but rather to win souls to the truth by the preaching of the Word, so that ones faith in GOD and HIS salvation will be increased, and the love of the truth be manifested in our lives.

So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Knowing the Truth sets us free...please study with us yet longer Cribstyl.

Dude, your post are long and too much to tackle in one response. When I walk away from your threads it'll be because you dropped a load in order to appear all knowing.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Dude, your post are long and too much to tackle in one response. When I walk away from your threads it'll be because you dropped a load in order to appear all knowing.

All knowing I am not, but I fully intend to uphold the Everlasting Gospel as it is written.

Please take your time in responding to any point, and as each response is placed, I hope to respond in kind to each as the time allows.

Since I was not born into nor raised Seventh Day Adventist, I have studied to know what the scriptures say, and before this, I went to GOD in humble prayer, and in so small a faith asking for Truth to be known. GOD has continued to provide the answers as I have asked HIM. By HIS HOLY SPIRIT I have been led directly to the movement so prophesied in scripture, which is the Seventh Day Adventist movement.

What I do know and have since learned in careful and dilligent study about all of the marvelous things in scripture and about Jesus Christ, I am more than willing to share with any who want to hear it and more than willing to speak with those who want to discuss them.

I do hope that you will want to continue, if not here, then perhaps another topic in another thread.

 

[Cribstyl]

All knowing I am not, but I fully intend to uphold the Everlasting Gospel as it is written.

Please take your time in responding to any point, and as each response is placed, I hope to respond in kind to each as the time allows.

Since I was not born into nor raised Seventh Day Adventist, I have studied to know what the scriptures say, and before this, I went to GOD in humble prayer, and in so small a faith asking for Truth to be known. GOD has continued to provide the answers as I have asked HIM. By HIS HOLY SPIRIT I have been led directly to the movement so prophesied in scripture, which is the Seventh Day Adventist movement.

What I do know and have since learned in careful and dilligent study about all of the marvelous things in scripture and about Jesus Christ, I am more than willing to share with any who want to hear it and more than willing to speak with those who want to discuss them.

I do hope that you will want to continue, if not here, then perhaps another topic in another thread.

Your recent posting seem reasonable enough to engage in reasonable dialog

Tell us again about what the transfiguration means to you?

Respectfully
CRIB

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Your recent posting seem reasonable enough to engage in reasonable dialog

Tell us again about what the transfiguration means to you?

Respectfully
CRIB

Ok, let us look back a little further, to where this event [Transfiguration] was mentioned.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, Matthew 17:1

[Remember, no chapter breaks actually existed]


And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1

And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. Mark 9:2

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27

And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. Luke 9:28

"there be some standing here"

"Jesus" takes "Peter", "James" and "John" up the mountain.

"after 6 days" = 7th Day
or
"about an eight days" = 7th day nearing end [not eighth day yet]

Jesus is then Transfigured before them in Glory.

Jesus is then seen speaking with the Resurrected Moses and the Translated Elijah.

Jesus also receives the blessing from the FATHER above.

Peter then mentions this very event:

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12

Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 2 Peter 1:13

Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 2 Peter 1:14

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18

Peter is speaking of the scene of the Mount of Transfiguration as a type of that which is coming in the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ, which he wants to have them always in remembrance.

In the Second Advent, when Jesus comes there will be a resurrection of the dead, a translating of those who are alive and remain, and both groups caught up together with HIM in the clouds... etc.

This is soon to take place, as it some time after 6000 years that the word has gone forth. The 1000 years is the 7th millenium. [In the light of recent events, I will stress that there are no exact dates set, merely a pattern given].

 

[Joe67]

Ok, let us look back a little further, to where this event [Transfiguration] was mentioned.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, Matthew 17:1

[Remember, no chapter breaks actually existed]


And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1

And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. Mark 9:2

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27

And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. Luke 9:28

"there be some standing here"

"Jesus" takes "Peter", "James" and "John" up the mountain.

"after 6 days" = 7th Day
or
"about an eight days" = 7th day nearing end [not eighth day yet]

Jesus is then Transfigured before them in Glory.

Jesus is then seen speaking with the Resurrected Moses and the Translated Elijah.

Jesus also receives the blessing from the FATHER above.

Peter then mentions this very event:

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12

Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 2 Peter 1:13

Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 2 Peter 1:14

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18

Peter is speaking of the scene of the Mount of Transfiguration as a type of that which is coming in the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ, which he wants to have them always in remembrance.

In the Second Advent, when Jesus comes there will be a resurrection of the dead, a translating of those who are alive and remain, and both groups caught up together with HIM in the clouds... etc.

This is soon to take place, as it some time after 6000 years that the word has gone forth. The 1000 years is the 7th millenium. [In the light of recent events, I will stress that there are no exact dates set, merely a pattern given].

Revelation,

Just an elect few were given to see this vision and hear the Voice speak the words of approval of Jesus. The same few were taken deeper with Jesus into the garden in the hour of his agony unto blood.

The vision of the transfiguration brought forth words out of Peter's mouth. The Voice that spoke caused the 3 apostles to fall on their face, like Abraham, Daniel, Saul/Paul, John on Patmos fell on their face as the vision and Voice of the Lord came to them. The unbelievers with Daniel and with Saul/Paul were frightened and tried to hide and/or run away.

This event of the transfiguration was beyond natural optics and audio. In a moment everything was back to the natural. Peter considered the mount of transfiguration as the holy mountain.

The appearing of our Lord will be likewise, under conditions whereby the natural heart and mind will feel him as adversarial. It will be a spiritual appearing, like the resurrection of the spiritual body. Only the believers were given the fellowship of the risen savior.

We also have a more sure word of prophecy to believe and do until the day star arises in our hearts.

Joe

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Revelation,

...

The appearing of our Lord will be likewise, under conditions whereby the natural heart and mind will feel him as adversarial. It will be a spiritual appearing, like the resurrection of the spiritual body. Only the believers were given the fellowship of the risen savior.

We also have a more sure word of prophecy to believe and do until the day star arises in our hearts.

Joe

Mr. Joe,

That which happened up the Mount was real, physical, tangible. The resurrected Moses and the translated Elijah actually showed up. The FATHER's voice did speak from Heaven audibly.

The Second Advent is not going to be a "spiritual appearing". [That is spiritism.] It is going to be earth-rendingly literal. There are so many texts on this subject, a whole new post will have to be started just for them.

JESUS [forever a man] left in a glorified human body and is coming back in a glorified human body as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords. This "same" JESUS...

The English word “coming” in the Greek is “parousia” “παρουσία” and means “presence, the advent, the coming, the arrival, the future visible return of JESUS from Heaven to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the Kingdom of GOD” [Strong's Concordance] [See Matthew 24:37 and compare to Luke 17:26,30].

The same word can be viewed in many other passages: (Matthew 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Corinthians 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6-7, 10:10; Philippians 1:26, 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1,8,9; James 5:7-8; 2 Peter 1:16, 3:4,12; 1 John 2:28).

There are also many other words that also describe JESUS' visible, physical, audible, tumultuous, glorious, triumphant and literal return at HIS appointed time:

“to come and/or arrive” “erchomai” “ἔρχομαι” (Matthew 24:30, 26:64; John 14:3; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Revelation. 1:7),

“to appear visibly” “optanomai” “ὀπτάνομαι” (Hebrews 9:28),

“to return” “analyō” “ἀναλύω” (Luke 12:36),

“to reveal” “apokalypsis” “ἀποκάλυψις” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7; Luke 17:29-30),

“to manifest” “epiphaneia” “ἐπιφάνεια” (1 Timothy 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:8; Titus 2:13),

“make manifest” “phaneroō” “φανερόω” (1 Peter 5:4),

“come” “hēkō” “ἥκω” (Revelation 2:25),

“to return” “hypostrephō” “ὑποστρέφω” (Luke 19:12).

All Heaven will be poured out in the Triumphant Great Advent of the LORD, SAVIOUR and GOD, CHRIST JESUS, and the Gates will be lifted up again:

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12)


Even the wicked over the whole earth will see JESUS coming in the clouds of Glory [Billions of Angels].

Edited, added new Post Link here:

The Day Of The LORD:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7562546/

 

[Joe67]

Mr. Joe,

That which happened up the Mount was real, physical, tangible. The resurrected Moses and the translated Elijah actually showed up. The FATHER's voice did speak from Heaven audibly.

The Second Advent is not going to be a "spiritual appearing". [That is spiritism.] It is going to be earth-rendingly literal. There are so many texts on this subject, a whole new post will have to be started just for them.

JESUS [forever a man] left in a glorified human body and is coming back in a glorified human body as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords. This "same" JESUS...

The English word “coming” in the Greek is “parousia” “παρουσία” and means “presence, the advent, the coming, the arrival, the future visible return of JESUS from Heaven to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the Kingdom of GOD” [Strong's Concordance] [See Matthew 24:37 and compare to Luke 17:26,30].

The same word can be viewed in many other passages: (Matthew 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Corinthians 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6-7, 10:10; Philippians 1:26, 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1,8,9; James 5:7-8; 2 Peter 1:16, 3:4,12; 1 John 2:28).

There are also many other words that also describe JESUS' visible, physical, audible, tumultuous, glorious, triumphant and literal return at HIS appointed time:

“to come and/or arrive” “erchomai” “ἔρχομαι” (Matthew 24:30, 26:64; John 14:3; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Revelation. 1:7),

“to appear visibly” “optanomai” “ὀπτάνομαι” (Hebrews 9:28),

“to return” “analyō” “ἀναλύω” (Luke 12:36),

“to reveal” “apokalypsis” “ἀποκάλυψις” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7; Luke 17:29-30),

“to manifest” “epiphaneia” “ἐπιφάνεια” (1 Timothy 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:8; Titus 2:13),

“make manifest” “phaneroō” “φανερόω” (1 Peter 5:4),

“come” “hēkō” “ἥκω” (Revelation 2:25),

“to return” “hypostrephō” “ὑποστρέφω” (Luke 19:12).

All Heaven will be poured out in the Triumphant Great Advent of the LORD, SAVIOUR and GOD, CHRIST JESUS, and the Gates will be lifted up again:

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12)


Even the wicked over the whole earth will see JESUS coming in the clouds of Glory [Billions of Angels].

Edited, added new Post Link here:

The Day Of The LORD:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7562546/

Revelation,

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. KJV

Matt 24:41-44
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. KJV

Joe

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Revelation,

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. KJV

Matt 24:41-44
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. KJV

Joe

Please follow the link to the study on the Day of the Lord. It would be [for lack of a better word] foolish to have Jesus saying watch for signs in the sun, moon, stars and nations, [and all manner of physical events] etc if it was a supposed to be just a 'spiritual' advent. For what would any of that have to do with such? Nothing at all. Instead those things are given so that we may truly know that He is Near, and soon to come in those literal clouds of Angels. The Kingdom of Grace and Repentance is now, the Kingdom in Power and Glory is coming. Amen.

 

[Cribstyl]

Keywords are very important in scripture, as is context...For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: Isaiah 28:10

The context of the previous material, namely that of 2 Peter 1:12 was also addressed:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7560582/#post57501991

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12

However, for the sake of going over the material a little more indepth, please look with me, ok?

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:4

... etc...

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17

And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

What was the "present truth" that Peter wanted the Christians to know? That there were and still are "precious promises". What are these promises? That JESUS CHRIST is coming again in HIS Second Advent, the "blessed hope", that HE has given us the power by HIS HOLY SPIRIT to overcome temptation [as JESUS had] and sin [transgression of the law; 1 John 3:4] in our lives and to live according to commandments of GOD [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6], that we, like JESUS, will also be transfigured, as JESUS had been, and we shall be with those who were once Dead and Raised, or Translated alive. Moses [himself representing the Law and those who have died and fell asleep, and will be raised at the Last Day] and Elijah [himself representing the Prophets and those who will be translated alive at the Second Advent] will be with CHRIST JESUS, glorified. So like JESUS, of which it was said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." [Mat 17:5; 2 Pet 1:17] it will thus be said to us, "Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." [Matthew 25:23].

The "Everlasting Gospel" of Revelation 14:6-12, our very "present truth", does indeed remind us of those promises and presents them as being fulfilled and about to be fulfilled, and reiterates the Second Advent, along with Saving Grace and Obedience to GOD. Therefore the "law and the prophets" are still speaking and prophesying to this very day about these events taking place and about to take place, just as they had done for the First Advent. There was an "Elijah" message for then, and so too now.

How could what Peter meant as the "present truth" be what John wrote about in Revelation or primarily about keeping the ten commandments?

We need apply Peter's words to understanding, rather that search for keywords and say whatever's clever.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

How could what Peter meant as the "present truth" be what John wrote about in Revelation or primarily about keeping the ten commandments?

We need apply Peter's words to understanding, rather that search for keywords and say whatever's clever.

Who actually appeared on the Mount that Peter spoke of? Moses and Elijah. What do they represent if not the Law and the Prophets, and also if not those who have died and will be resurrected and those alive at the end and transformed and translated together?

The focus in Revelation is stated here:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ..." it is a revealing about Him, what He is doing for the salvation of men, what He is doing about sin and the wicked, about what He is doing in overturning the judgments on the righteous by the wicked. He is the center. Just as He was in between Moses and Elijah, the center, the Father saying "Hear ye Him." But if we reject Moses and Elijah which all speaks of Him, how then shall we Hear him?

Just as John the Baptist [the prophet] was refused by Herod, he then beheaded John, and thus also the Law and Comamndment was refused, he murdered John. When Jesus was then brought before Herod, what did Jesus have to say to Him.... nothing. Herod would not have listened to a word Jesus had said anyway, for he had already rejected the Law and the Prophets which spake of Him, and that which He would say.

Revelation also reveals that God [Jesus] has a Commandment keeping people. They who follow the Lamb whither soever he goeth, they who keep his Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus. The Faith of Jesus is much more than faith "in" Jesus. It is the Faith "of" Jesus. A Faith that Keeps the Commandments. A Faith that is demonstrated by doing.

Present Truth is that which is being most prevalent in the Word of God for this our time, the time of the end. Revelation 14:6-12 expressly deals with the events transpiring now.

We are not looking and waiting for the First Advent, for that has already happened, yet we are awaiting the Second Advent and those events to take place just before this happens.

 

[ricker]

Who actually appeared on the Mount that Peter spoke of? Moses and Elijah. What do they represent if not the Law and the Prophets,

And what happened on the mount? the "law" and "prophets" dissapeared in a cloud and God in a loud voice said "“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”, showing the end of the significance of the old, and the beginning of the new. I find it quite profound.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

And what happened on the mount? the "law" and "prophets" dissapeared in a cloud and God in a loud voice said "“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”, showing the end of the significance of the old, and the beginning of the new. I find it quite profound.

It is amazing what people will read into scripture when they simply want to be rid of a single commandment.

Ask yourself, "Was Jesus seen glorified with them?"

The Law and the Prophets, in Moses and Elijah, glorified and forever living. Moses died, was resurrected and now lives glorfied eternally because of Christ Jesus, and Elijah, by the Grace of God and the sacrifce of Christ Jesus never dies and now is eternally glorified...

That is profound.

 

[Cribstyl]

......The bible is not a book of riddles. It's the word of God we should apply to understanding.

Who actually appeared on the Mount that Peter spoke of? Moses and Elijah. What do they represent if not the Law and the Prophets,.......

You're mixing apples and oranges. We were talking about what Peter meant as present truth in 2Peter. I've read all his writings again to settle our dialog. You keep creating links to support your comments rather than to redeem what the scriptures teach.

The scriptures about the transfiguration shows that Peter had the wrong interpretation of the vision (an obvious trait in Peter before the Holy Ghost revealed all that Jesus Had taught them.)
Peter's idea was to build 3 shrines to commorate "Moses" (the law) Elijah, (the prophets) and Jesus . The gospels tells us while Peter was expressing his ideas, God cut him off whaile he was still talking and said; This is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased, hear ye Him. Luke went a little further in his gospel to say that Peter did not know what he was talking about;
Luk 9:33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
Luk 9:34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
Luk 9:35And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

So the tranfiguration point the fact that God appeared to say We need to hear Jesus. Moses and Elijah were prophets who proclaimed that Jesus was comming and we need to hear Him.

Present Truth is that which is being most prevalent in the Word of God for this our time, the time of the end. Revelation 14:6-12 expressly deals with the events transpiring now.

We are not looking and waiting for the First Advent, for that has already happened, yet we are awaiting the Second Advent and those events to take place just before this happens.

That may be your present truth, but what Peter was talking about is understood in the texts you ignor in the context.

 

[Cribstyl]

Just as John the Baptist [the prophet] was refused by Herod, he then beheaded John, and thus also the Law and Comamndment was refused, he murdered John. When Jesus was then brought before Herod, what did Jesus have to say to Him.... nothing. Herod would not have listened to a word Jesus had said anyway, for he had already rejected the Law and the Prophets which spake of Him, and that which He would say.

Your lesson about Herod is suspect. Yes, Herod put him in jail. John was beheaded specifically because Herodias ask for pizza with John's head on top.
Remeber that Herod had killed all the firstborns in efforts to kill Jesus. Herod was not concern with the laws of the Hebrew slaves. Who preached to Herod for him to refuse the 10.commandments as you say? Please get your story straight.

 

[Cribstyl]

Revelation also reveals that God [Jesus] has a Commandment keeping people. They who follow the Lamb whither soever he goeth, they who keep his Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus. The Faith of Jesus is much more than faith "in" Jesus. It is the Faith "of" Jesus. A Faith that Keeps the Commandments. A Faith that is demonstrated by doing.

Present Truth is that which is being most prevalent in the Word of God for this our time, the time of the end. Revelation 14:6-12 expressly deals with the events transpiring now.

We are not looking and waiting for the First Advent, for that has already happened, yet we are awaiting the Second Advent and those events to take place just before this happens.

I knew before asking you, that what Peter coins as present truth was not exactly what SDA has established as "The present truth."
My objective was to apply to understnding what Peter was expressing in 2Peter.

Thank you for your patience